Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

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Originally Posted by Awha

Personally I do not think the quality of the discussion or merit of the discussion is not predicated on the notion that a problem is large enough to solve especially which issues that by in large will not be solved by SE or even the community.

Though I am a fan of discussing hypothetical situations and problems. My view of the core problem with the OP is in the title that FFXIV has a culture that enables what they view as poor play. Which I think could be an interesting discussion.

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I think whether or not FFXIV has that culture is not really an interesting topic by itself.

Let's say people "agree" that the community has that culture. Then the question is, so what? And that brings us back to whether we need to do anything about it, which means talking about whether it's a problem in the first place and how big of a problem if it is.

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Originally Posted by linayar

I think whether or not FFXIV has that culture is not really an interesting topic by itself.

Let's say people "agree" that the community has that culture. Then the question is, so what? And that brings us back to whether we need to do anything about it, which means talking about whether it's a problem in the first place and how big of a problem if it is.

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I disagree I think the so what is the most interesting aspect of the discussion. It lends itself to see what people may value in their MMO experience. Why certain things matter especially when in the grand scheme it may not have any value so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I disagree I think the so what is the most interesting aspect of the discussion. It lends itself to see what people may value in their MMO experience. Why certain things matter especially when in the grand scheme it may not have any value so to speak.

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It's not that it doesn't have any value, but it's so subjective. It's like an online store item that may have value for some, but not for others.

SE might very well do something is the clamor gets loud enough. See male Viera andfemale Hrothgar. It's also not that I am ignoring your solutions, it's that those shouldn't be where we have to go to in the first place.

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Originally Posted by linayar

It's not that it doesn't have any value, but it's so subjective. It's like an online store item that may have value for some, but not for others.

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That is why I said so to speak, because the value varies from person to person which makes it interesting. I agree some subjective topics are bland like favorite food. Though subjective topics that revole around a perception of a community can often be enlightening personally.

Final Fantasy XIV has enabled me to tank and heal in dungeons. That's a win in my book. Keep doing what you're doing Final Fantasy XIV. I haven't run across one toxic person or any toxicity for that matter.

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Originally Posted by CobraChicken

Final Fantasy XIV has enabled me to tank and heal in dungeons. That's a win in my book. Keep doing what you're doing Final Fantasy XIV. I haven't run across one toxic person or any toxicity for that matter.

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Then you are either blind, or just not wanting to see. Toxicity is everywhere, more so in casual play. High-end play toxicity has largely been leashed by ToS. The same cannot be said for low-end toxicity.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Then you are either blind, or just not wanting to see.

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So now you're dismissing other people's own experience?

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Toxicity is everywhere,

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This kind of statement is why people would accuse you of lying.

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more so in casual play. High-end play toxicity has largely been leashed by ToS. The same cannot be said for low-end toxicity.

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Then I guess the ToS doesn't consider the latter to be toxic.

I'd assume low-end toxicity isn't common because people tend to have low expectations from others in dungeon finder to begin with and are not likely to call them out for poor play unless it's actively preventing from finishing an instance (Which is rare as there are little to no meaningful DPS checks or total party wipe mechanics in normal modes).

There definitely are people who will get offended if you dare suggest they're doing something wrong, though I find that people who are playing badly tend to just not respond at all if they get called out.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

SE might very well do something is the clamor gets loud enough. See male Viera andfemale Hrothgar. It's also not that I am ignoring your solutions, it's that those shouldn't be where we have to go to in the first place.

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The thing is, I haven't heard enough people state that they've had the same experience as you.

I think you don't really have as many bad runs as you think you've had. Not saying that that's how you remember things.

But we humans tend to remember negative things more than positive things. It's a survival instinct back from before we knew what was safe to eat or not. It was better for us to remember that that berry killed Joe than that fruit tasted yummy.

Couple that with the human nature to assume everyone has their own play style and learning style/speed, it can be easy to see how you might have a perception that so many are bad and that it's because they want to be carried.

No one has stated that they have had as many bad experiences as you, even those who tend to agree with you that the game enables being carried.

By not backing down on the frequency of bad runs you've had and stating that that is the case with conviction, it's not hard to see why some feel you are intentionally exaggerating your experiences.

When you exaggerate your experiences in an effort to get people to feel something is a problem, you will get people saying that it is not true and therefore is not a problem. You get people arguing about if there is a problem in the first place rather than arguing about what can be done to fix the problem. You want to reduce the frequency of bad runs. Whether that frequency is 50%, 25%, or some other percentage, I'd bet that anything short of 0% would cause players to agree that something that would reduce the percentage of bad runs wouldn't be a bad thing.

Then solutions can be discussed that would be relevant to how much investment it would take to implement the solution vs the pros and cons of the solution.

Your likely exaggeration, intentional or not, has everyone discussing the problem, when I'd imagine you really want discussion to be on the solution.