Please implement something to teach players how to play

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Originally Posted by Fungo

Personally as a new player, I find it difficult to learn rotations properly, due to the syncs.
I am only a 57 samurai now, but when in group content, I often find myself missing one skill or another, so for me it us hard to build up muscle memory. So I am sure older players will see me screw up all the time.

I am just happy that everybody seems so nice in FF14.:)

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Aye, in swtor if you reached max level 75 by any means you would keep your abilities. On the other end you would not have abilities in the content you synced up to, so if you were level 25 and went into a flashpoint that brought you up to level 75 you would not have your abilities, but your armor and skills would be synced to the higher level. No matter what planet you were on, if you unlocked an ability, you kept it.

For ffxiv building muscle memory for any class is not fun. I have skills on my bar that feel great level 80, but when synced down I have to get use to what I have all over again, and what buttons do not exist. Also leveling and getting use to the class, if I am stuck in level 50 dungeons until level 60 for the most part than suddenly I am 60 and thrown into that set of dungeons I had no time to practice it at that level. Sure I could manual queue for those things, but eventually down the road I am just excepting that I am never going to not be rusty at level 70 content when I am stuck at level 50 content, and when I finally get level 80 content you can finally see your rotation in its final form.

It kind of made me happy one day queuing, there was a moment in mt gulg, I pulled the first bit and it took a bit of time, but as the pull went on everyone was remembering they were at 80 in that dungeon. It was a satisfying, everyone is warming up in this dungeon, holy cow thank goodness I am not the only one >.< The amount of times I say to myself 'I have (x ability) in here and I haven't been using it!'facepalm

Pfffffffffff ohhh myyy I am now the worst troll of them all! That is smexy I love it. Anyways!

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkyllark

And I trained my members to play extremely conservative and only worry about dealing as much dmg as needed to kill the boss, every other ounce of concentration should be spent on staying alive and doing mechanics.

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Woah! You kinda sound like JP player, which is not a bad thing at'all. This is how I usually approach new fights especially as healer.

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Originally Posted by Fungo

I am only a 57 samurai now, but when in group content, I often find myself missing one skill or another, so for me it us hard to build up muscle memory. So I am sure older players will see me screw up all the time.

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I feel the level sync part of this directly on the soul and it hurts. Hmm. I have not been playing for super long so cannot speak as a veteran player buuuuut I probably would not notice. I would be too busy doing this myself! It is only when a fight begins to take far longer then it usually does then I start inspecting party member's gear first or search info. For you I would probably see random dungeon gear and highest level 57 and think "Ohh, they are just here for first time enjoying the story. Well! Have fun! You are in the good bits now."

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You're the one who believes THINK is so important.

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All games are designed in some ways to provoke though, even walking simulators. Actually, walking simulators tend to provoke much though! Layer's of Fear and Soma involve mostly walking about until the later bits and were some of the most thought provoking games for this Mia.

Another example most fantastic is Disco Elysium and it has no "combat" within it. Most movies, games, books are designed to make one think and this is not bad thing. It should be praised.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

maybe I'll make a crystal alt and see for myself how different it is!

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I shall say a silent prayer for you, may you return with some semblance of sanity still in tact. I hear there is a cult over there and there are dark dark rumors about something called 'the old ones'. They say simply speaking the name can drive one mad.

For other stuffs I wish to say; Rather than quote everyone and make the post even longer I will simply reply because it is kinda relevant.

Yes, we have hall of novice but it is not required. Yes we do have job/class quests but many of them do nothing to teach.

Heck! I remember discovering that anything you can Esuna has a white line on top of the debuff symbol and interruptible spells look vastly different from non interruptible counterparts. Meanwhile 90% of my white mage quests had no consequences for allowing NPCs to die, never required Esuna, and more often could be won by doing almost nothing.

The Scholar quests kinda attempt to teach and more quests should be like this! One of the later Scholar quests requires you to Esuna party members or they parish and you wipe. I mean.. you can just put it on very easy and bypass this but that is whooooole other issue.

I think having job quests actually involve more aspects of the role you are playing (especially early jobs like conjurer/marauder/gladiator) would be most useful.

Having content that is difficult to clear if not executed properly has been a thing in gaming foreeeever and this was never a big problem. A team that refuses to use medpacks or kill special infected in Left 4 Dead 2 is probably a dead team.

Even a more "casual" RPG like Mass Effect does a pretty darn good job of teaching through gameplay. Eden Prime, the first planet demonstrates the importance of maintaining distance from melee enemies and watching out for snipers. All skillsets you will require if you are to progress.

There are some kind of aoes (the dark/Gold ones with lot of circles) i still dont know why they are different. I guessed the closer you are to the center the more damage you get? am i right?

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Originally Posted by Garten

There are some kind of aoes (the dark/Gold ones with lot of circles) i still dont know why they are different. I guessed the closer you are to the center the more damage you get? am i right?

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Aye! You are indeed correct, though it could still be crazy when it comes to Shinryu, and when a million things have a proximity pulse.

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Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

So expecting someone in the Qitana Ravel to know what their basic combo chains are and perform them is too high of a standard?

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So, does this sort of thing happen to you often, or was it a one-time thing that sticks in your memory because you were feeling bored that day and wanted to find something to vent about?

Was the person level 80? Or level 75? Were you complaining in party chat, or did you suffer in silence? Did you vote kick that person (or persons, if this is an ongoing thing you encounter)? Did the run-through take the entire 90 minutes? Was the job a caster? A tank? A healer? One of the physical DPS?

Were you looking at the battle chat in-game at the time? Or did you just use that forbidden utility to spec out what was happening after the fact? [I have enough problems keeping track of my own actions in-game, let alone those of the other 3 players in an instance -- do you have god-like powers to do both?]

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

So, does this sort of thing happen to you often, or was it a one-time thing that sticks in your memory because you were feeling bored that day and wanted to find something to vent about?

Was the person level 80? Or level 75? Were you complaining in party chat, or did you suffer in silence? Did you vote kick that person (or persons, if this is an ongoing thing you encounter)? Did the run-through take the entire 90 minutes? Was the job a caster? A tank? A healer? One of the physical DPS?

Were you looking at the battle chat in-game at the time? Or did you just use that forbidden utility to spec out what was happening after the fact? [I have enough problems keeping track of my own actions in-game, let alone those of the other 3 players in an instance -- do you have god-like powers to do both?]

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If the person is playing a class you know well, it's probably pretty easy to tell if someone's not doing the entire rotation.

Like a Black Mage would be easy to tell if they were swapping between fire and ice and using Thunder. Fire and Ice cause red or blue/white orbs to rotate around the character. Thunder is a DoT and can be seen on the enemy healthbar.

A Dragoon would be easy to tell if they are using their jumps and the Dragon eye.

Classes where the positional changes from rear to flank would be easy to tell if the person is doing their positionals properly to those who have played those classes.

Expecting players to do the basics of their class isn't expecting someone to be hard core or elite.

Just because someone is not performing their bare minimum doesn't mean a player is going to feel the need to kick the player or leave themselves. May depend on how well everyone else is doing. May depend on how willing players are in that player's group are to give a carry if the player is performing badly enough.

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Originally Posted by Nethereal

Honestly if this thread ever happens again. We can use this thread as a foundation to just completely ignore certain people.

I think this is the biggest loss of faith in humanity I've seen thus far on the forums.

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Hopefully when we're here again around when we've gotten the last skill balances for 6.0+ patches we'll remember this thread. Cause trust me this most likely will pop up again.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

So, does this sort of thing happen to you often, or was it a one-time thing that sticks in your memory because you were feeling bored that day and wanted to find something to vent about?

Was the person level 80? Or level 75? Were you complaining in party chat, or did you suffer in silence? Did you vote kick that person (or persons, if this is an ongoing thing you encounter)? Did the run-through take the entire 90 minutes? Was the job a caster? A tank? A healer? One of the physical DPS?

Were you looking at the battle chat in-game at the time? Or did you just use that forbidden utility to spec out what was happening after the fact? [I have enough problems keeping track of my own actions in-game, let alone those of the other 3 players in an instance -- do you have god-like powers to do both?]

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let's see
last month I had, in the span of a bit more than a week:
an E12N that had to be abandoned because both healers wouldn't use anything but the base low level spells of their class, no OGCD healing usage at all, who were toxic to everyone involved when people asked them to use something else - yes, it was their first time doing E12N, no, no one was giving them a hard time for failing mechanics
but their lack of healing meant that both rdm's ran out of MP to rez people because any modicum of damage meant someone died due to lack of healing
neither of them were sprouts and both had multiple jobs at 80 and at that level and after 5 or 6 wipes, you'd think they'd have picked up 1-2 mechs or at least thought about just following one of the players that executed the mechs, but no
a scholar who had trouble healing matoya single pulls and was complaining about the tank, every healer at 80
a tank single pulling paglthan who stopped tanking when the dps' and I pulled the rest
shinryu, where the two rdm's in the party were hardcasting verraise multiple times, both of them having multiple jobs at 80, attacking the boss and hardcasting it again, with the mentor sch not healing at all and dying to the wave mech, the first timer tank also dying to said mech (no big deal due to first timer) and the second tank not having their stance on, which meant the dps' get deleted one after another - the sprout whm being overwhelmed with the amount of healing they had to do and dying because they didn't heal themselves and instead tried to raise the tank again (nbd again)
and that whole thing almost happened again, with the rdm's hardcasting every long-ass spell for most of the fight until at least one of them figured out how dualcast worked and subsequently sped up the run a LOT, but now the sch helped with the healing

multiple people were begging and trying to help the two healers in e12 and shinryu but it fell on deaf ears or was ignored, the sch and tank in the dungeons were toxic and resistant to advice and got kicked but not before threatening reports
it's not hard to miss an RDM hardcasting or a healer standing around with a thumb in their butt, you don't even need that forbidden tool for that - and I don't understand why you'd bring it up?

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Originally Posted by Miracle_Diva

It's fine, let them be then. Just don't let them ride your back when you meet those unless you're fine with that.
Altho, if we had a better teaching system that would interest players to learn, it's only a benefit for everyone. You still won't need to be the best, you will just have more knowledge about things, thus create good habits for yourself.

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Yes I don't let those people bother me. The last time I found myself in a duty with an ice mage who just spam freeze over and over again, I just left and move on.
People who have no interest to learn from the beginning won't suddenly learn to do their job with any new training system they add. Ice mages will still be ice mages, heal only healers will still just healing only.
Sure it might help people who already trying to learn their job to be even better, but it won't help solve the issue with a lot of extreme examples provided by the people here.

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Originally Posted by Fland

Yes I don't let those people bother me. The last time I found myself in a duty with an ice mage who just spam freeze over and over again, I just left and move on.
People who have no interest to learn from the beginning won't suddenly learn to do their job with any new training system they add. Ice mages will still be ice mages, heal only healers will still just healing only.
Sure it might help people who already trying to learn their job to be even better, but it won't help solve the issue with a lot of extreme examples provided by the people here.

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That doesn't mean that we don't have to try and bring "help" to those who are interested.