BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Except players had numerical data to support their requests for buffs. You have something to show that their metrics are using feedback from sources unfamiliar with BLUs limitation?

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Of course I don't, but neither do they, all they've said is "Our community leaders show 70% of people love BLU." without much clarity that it may be internal data. Which I am less likely to believe than community data do to them saying things as you've quoted. Unless they're announcing it on stage I don't trust data they haven't shown us with sources. That's not me hating on Yoship or the devs, that's just what I do with every company that gives data like this.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Of course I don't, but neither do they, all they've said is "Our community leaders show 70% of people love BLU." without much clarity that it may be internal data. Which I am less likely to believe than community data do to them saying things as you've quoted. Unless they're announcing it on stage I don't trust data they haven't shown us with sources. That's not me hating on Yoship or the devs, that's just what I do with every company that gives data like this.

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Who cares? It's a meaningless data point with no way to verify and I cannot believe discussing it has constituted the last 5 pages of this thread. As if anyone has any real idea how popular this is or not. And much more salient, if the disapproval rate of this was 99 to 1 they still wouldn't have the time from announcement to release to fix it.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Of course I don't, but neither do they, all they've said is "Our community leaders show 70% of people love BLU." without much clarity that it may be internal data. Which I am less likely to believe than community data do to them saying things as you've quoted. Unless they're announcing it on stage I don't trust data they haven't shown us with sources. That's not me hating on Yoship or the devs, that's just what I do with every company that gives data like this.

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Neither do they? So they're just making up figures without any data collection to reach their conclusion. That's your stance? Ok. Fair enough. I'll choose to accept the data until it is otherwise proven incorrect/inaccurate.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Unless they're announcing it on stage I don't trust data they haven't shown us with sources.

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How would announcing it on stage rather than an interview make you more likely to trust the data?

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

Who cares? It's a meaningless data point with no way to verify and I cannot believe discussing it has constituted the last 5 pages of this thread. As if anyone has any real idea how popular this is or not. And much more salient, if the disapproval rate of this was 99 to 1 they still wouldn't have the time from announcement to release to fix it.

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Someone seems a bit upset. I'm simply stating that, no I do not, nor could I quantify "how many people who play final fantasy xiv like Blue mage" I am simply iterating the fact that trusting data without a source or transparency of that data, is essentially trusting my own estimation of how many people like Blue mage, which would be a relatively naive thing to do. Of no consequence to you of course.

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Neither do they? So they're just making up figures without any data collection to reach their conclusion. That's your stance? Ok. Fair enough. I'll choose to accept the data until it is otherwise proven incorrect/inaccurate.

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Without telling us their source and being transparent about the process? yes, just saying "70% of people like this" is similar to saying "70% of people hate this" that's not a stance that's just...fact, my friend. For example, they said "New Artifact armor coming in 5.0" followed by an image in the background showing what we can see is most likely artifact armor designs.

If I were to say "there is a 100% chance that we are getting artifact armor" then that would be a true statement, because they announced it, on stage, with art.

You may do as you like, I have never told you nor will I tell anyone not to believe something they believe. I am merely drawing parallels and discussing, if you choose to not hear that discussion, then that is perfectly fine and within your right, as always.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

For example, they said "New Artifact armor coming in 5.0" followed by an image in the background showing what we can see is most likely artifact armor designs.

If I were to say "there is a 100% chance that we are getting artifact armor" then that would be a true statement, because they announced it, on stage, with art.

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So if they announced that metric at a live letter and showed you a pie chart with percentage values and a breakdown of who all thought what, despite not going into detail as to their process. It'd become a truer data value statement somehow because it was announced on stage with a slide?

Trying to see how there is a parallel to trusting data here because it is announced on stage with a slide.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Unless they're announcing it on stage I don't trust data they haven't shown us with sources.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

So if they announced that metric at a live letter and showed you a pie chart with percentage values and a breakdown of who all thought what, despite not going into detail as to their process. It'd become a truer statement somehow because it was announced on stage with a slide?

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Oh absolutely, I'm no fool, I know people are (My opinion of course) most likely genuinely excited for limited BLU and though I would have preferred unlimited BLU, I still plan on playing it myself. Again, I have never once implied that "No one likes limited BLU I know what the community likes" I am simply saying blindly trusting a percentage number said in an interview by someone that has used similar 'data facts' to respond to community feedback, as a "Everyone loves BLU you're the minority" is just a bit disingenuous.

Do more people like BLU than hate it? I don't know. Will it stop me from trying it out with my friends? No. Should it stop you from enjoying it? I would hope not.

A lot of people think SAM isn't meta and don't like playing with one in the party. Doesn't stop people from playing it, but if Yoship said "Our data shows SAM does the highest amount of damage and 70% of players love how it functions in midcore raid environments" I would not believe that. Even if I love SAM.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

I can see as well and honestly, aside from the vocal who continually post about it I don't see so heavily a split as you're implying, least not from glossing over the threads from here and reddit and the responses on facebook. I've no reason to believe that their auditing team is so cursory as that though.

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Well here its best to look at the likes a post receive because as you said a long thread could just be something a few people constantly post in. And this one has over 140 likes. One answer in another thread that liked it being solo had 100 likes. So yes imo this shows quite the split on this forum and at least quite some people dislike it or want it at least changed towards it being part of normal duty finder. There was also a shorter thread asking for future other limited jobs and one of the most liked posts was someone that want no future limited job and the concept to stop.

So imo its quite telling here.

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Originally Posted by Mikki

I think the real problem is the fact that they have over 100 abilities already planned for Blue Mage.. compare that to the roughly 25 for current classes (and even that they want to trim down if I'm not mistaken, albiet for bloat reasons more so than balancing but still). Yes, they can only have a certain number of spells active at one time.... but in order to balance it properly, they have to consider ALL of the spells and how each can interact with one another. This is a nightmare for the dev team, I'd imagine. The only way I could see this working is if they restrict what spells can be used in raid content, which I think people would be pretty unhappy about and it would make it kind of messy because they want you to find the abilities on your own but you need to have certain ones in order to raid and it'd just be a pretty confusing scenario, honestly.

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Well I am quite sure that a lot of people that want it in duty finder would be fine if only a certain amount of skills can be used in dutyfinder or raids. They could have said that the skills that we learn through job quests are those that are necessary for instances and that those would be their rotation. Thus only that few skills would need to be balanced, everything else simply is not working in instances but outside of it or in the carnival. Maybe they could even make it so that this is a job who would need much more work to play fantastic in savage situation thus maybe a challenge for those that want one, while others can just simply run dungeons with it without problems.

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Originally Posted by MrKimper

Someone seems a bit upset. I'm simply stating that, no I do not, nor could I quantify "how many people who play final fantasy xiv like Blue mage" I am simply iterating the fact that trusting data without a source or transparency of that data, is essentially trusting my own estimation of how many people like Blue mage, which would be a relatively naive thing to do. Of no consequence to you of course.

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I am mad people are wasting time on what may as well be a debate about the existence of unicorns for all we can confirm or not. On your broader point of don't trust corporate marketing, I agree.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

They don't need to balance BLU's abilities around raiding cause you're not going to be able to do any current level content. They have said in an interview that it was difficult to expect BLU to be lvl 80 in Shadowbringers. And having OP abilities in content you can Unsync isn't really a problem. There are still the 24 man raids that you can't unsync but good luck getting a pre made party every time you want to do one one BLU

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I know, I'm saying this for the people who are complaining that it SHOULD be able to raid. It's unrealistic to expect them to go through (I think currently they already have 124 planned abilities, more to be added in the future) every time they need to balance the class. Sure, as someone else said...some may be useless or repeats but there's still likely to be a significant amount more and personally I think that Yosida had a lot of fun collecting abilities in other FF games as a Blue Mage from what he says so I think he wants to give them as many abilities as possible; likely each addition will be no small number. It will be too hard to balance at higher end content and that's probably why we aren't getting it. There are ways to make it possible, I'm sure. But I think it goes against what Yoshida has envisioned for the class.

Personally, I think it's kind of nice to have a completely different kind of class that is so entirely different it can't even be used in the same way. I like that we can have a totally "broken" class just for fun. But clearly we all have different opinions and that's ok too. Just saying why I think they're going this route and why it would be difficult to trash the concept without majorly changing the way Yoshida wants the class to function.

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Originally Posted by Mikki

I know, I'm saying this for the people who are complaining that it SHOULD be able to raid. It's unrealistic to expect them to go through (I think currently they already have 124 planned abilities, more to be added in the future) every time they need to balance the class. Sure, as someone else said...some may be useless or repeats but there's still likely to be a significant amount more and personally I think that Yosida had a lot of fun collecting abilities in other FF games as a Blue Mage from what he says so I think he wants to give them as many abilities as possible; likely each addition will be no small number. It will be too hard to balance at higher end content and that's probably why we aren't getting it. There are ways to make it possible, I'm sure. But I think it goes against what Yoshida has envisioned for the class.

Personally, I think it's kind of nice to have a completely different kind of class that is so entirely different it can't even be used in the same way. I like that we can have a totally "broken" class just for fun. But clearly we all have different opinions and that's ok too. Just saying why I think they're going this route and why it would be difficult to trash the concept without majorly changing the way Yoshida wants the class to function.

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The problem with the way the are implimenting it tho is that the only thing you can do on it is old content. It's basically, "I've capped my tomes and don't want to craft, ex primals, or savage raid, lets go run old content on a job I have to make parties to do anything with." And sure there is the Masked Carnival but what's the point of that once you've done all the missions? BLU will just sit there till they decide to update it. And if they add other limited jobs they will probably leapfrog which job they level up at a time. It's just a horrible way to do a job instead of just making it a regular job. You don't need 100+ abilities when most of those will be replaced by stronger versions or be very niche skills. It basically just drives me insane thinking about limited jobs as a whole. UGH lol.