Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

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Originally Posted by Reslin

It had around the same population as EQ which peeked at around 500,000 subs.

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Check the above graph. EQ spiked around 2k4-2k5 (expansion?) but then drastically fell... probably due to WoW. FFXI stayed at 500k until 2010ish. So sure, they at one point were equal, but on average XI maintained it's population above EQ.

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Originally Posted by Magis

Check the above graph. EQ spiked around 2k4-2k5 (expansion?) but then drastically fell... probably due to WoW. FFXI stayed at 500k until 2010ish. So sure, they at one point were equal, but on average XI maintained it's population above EQ.

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I'm talking about overall peak. EQ fell because of Sony making some very very weird decisions. Removing exploration when that was one of the major focuses in EQ. If left alone as is it would have retained peak for a long time but sony shot themselves in the foot instead. That's why I and all my friends left.

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Originally Posted by Reslin

I'm talking about overall peak. EQ fell because of Sony making some very very weird decisions. Removing exploration when that was one of the major focuses in EQ. If left alone as is it would have retained peak for a long time but sony shot themselves in the foot instead. That's why I and all my friends left.

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Sorry, care to explain? At around 2001 the growth rate slew down, and plummets at 2004. So are you saying if Sony didn't screw up, the growth rate would keep expanding? I'd say WoW had more to do with effecting both MMO's sub rates (even XI fell around that year, WoW was released in 2004), though Sony probably caused the massive decline on EQ. Maybe I am misunderstanding.

Anyway my point wasn't to get into a pissing match between XI and EQ, just that populations of MMOs at the time sat around that size. WoW was an anomaly that I don't think will ever be seen again.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

Factually inaccurate, WoW came out in the time when PCs were cheaper and everyone could get one. They also shoved ads at you like no tomorrow. XI had 1 ad (outside Japan), which negates your PS2 because not many people knew about it.

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That makes literally no sense...

So many of these arguments are chasing their own tails. It really comes down to this, FFXIV is successful in the current model it is. If that's WoW, if thats EQ, if thats some amalgamation of all MMOs released to date, it doesnt matter: it works. Quit trying to make it emulate a subpar MMO that has a loyal, but small, fan base. That's what FFXIV 1.0 tried to do and hard failed. Move on, find another game, and dont try and take away from the other fans who out number you, but dont all feel the need to fall on their sword in some forum which doesnt honestly mean a lot.

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Originally Posted by Vandark

lol more abilities than FFXI, perhaps on melle classes but the magic classes in ARR are a flat out joke. Also in the old FF14 you could use way more skills than now, so no I'm not impressed.
I find strategizing alot more appealing than spam so I'm afrade your wrong, there are many reasons why I don't think ARR plays at all like an Final Fantasy game.

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So because we use abilities more often in FFXIV there's suddenly no strategy? What great strategies did FFXI even have compared to FFXIV? There was SC+MB that fell to disuse and SA+TA on to the tank (that also fell into disuse as soon as you reached endgame).

And speaking of magic classes in FFXI having more spells... how many of those you actually used? Because from what I remember about playing WHM, BLM, RDM and SCH, the answer is very few. That's not to say that FFXIV couldn't use more spells and abilities, but that's something that comes with time just like it did in FFXI.

You need to stop looking back at FFXI with rose-tinted glasses.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

looking back at FFXI with rose-tinted glasses.

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uh yeah you are right it wasnt like that a WHM used: Cure 3,4,5, Curaga 1,2,3, Haste, Aquaveil, Blink, Stoneskin, Protectra 5 + Shellra 4/5, Bar-resist spells, Banish/ga,III, Holy, Regen 1,2,3, Raise 1,2,3 or Reraise 1,2,3 or Erase and JA's like Benediction, Divine Seal, Afflatus Solace, Afflatus Misery, Devotion.

or a RDM (which was my main class) Cure 3/4, Haste, Refresh, Protect 4/ Shell 3, Stun, Stoneskin, Phalanx 1/2, Paralyze 1 or 2,Slow 1 or 2, Dia 3, Bio 2/3, Poison 2, Gravity, Dispel, Raise, Level 3 Ele Spells.

or a BLM with Elemental spells Tier 4, Elemental AGA spells Tier 3, Flood/Freeze/Tornado/Flare/Burst/Quake up to Level 2 if mertited, drain, aspir, retrace, stun, sleep/ga 1 / 2

i guess this Magic skills and the numbers of varitation which you also used in the endgame Shows that it beats the XIV ones.

ps.: and you need to stop looking at XIV:ARR with rose-tinted-glasses.

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Originally Posted by Tobias_CB

Having played EQ1 for years and FFXI for years, I’m scratching my head regarding what major innovations FFXI brought to the genre. The only thing that I can think of is the Auction House, which saved players significant amounts of time that would have otherwise been spent farming the old fashioned way.


In fact, many of the arguments used here to complain about how 14 is too “casual friendly” work perfectly when viewing the AH in historical context. I can just see the complaints now…”Real MMO players farm their gear, or buy their gear from another person in the bazaar! The interaction fostered a sense of in game COMMUNITY. The AH just makes the process too easy, and fosters laziness in the player base.”

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Some of the best art & writing the series has seen.

Cross-platform play (PC, PS2/3 and Xbox 360 players all playing together)

Skillchains + Magic Burst

Being able to play 22 different jobs on a single character with absolutely no restrictions, as well as cross-classing a secondary job equal to half your main's level with very little restrictions outside of skill levels.

Cross-regional play with a pretty decent translator (how many Japanese MMOs have you seen that actively encouraged playing with people all around the world and didn't have segregated servers like we do now?)

Endless content to keep you occupied with/wide variety of gear options (up until abyssea anyway)


XI had a lot going for it, and was predicted to dominate the market back when it launched due to the series' popularity in North America. Unfortunately the game was a little too hard/unforgiving in many respects and SE kinda let Blizzard take center stage while Tanaka was ruling with an iron fist. I mean hell look how long it took them just to establish forums for the game. XI was satisfyingly difficult with regards to most of the content, but things like loot & leveling up were too extreme in the early days. The format was fine (grouping with others) but the real innovations like Level Synch & Fields of Valor (not to mention they never awarded EXP for quests which was dumb as all Hell) came far too late.

It's still my personal favorite and IMO the best entry in the entirety of the series despite its many flaws. It's why I'm so deeply saddened that SE chose not to build on that success.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

The problem is, reading it's a thing, executing is another. There's a good reason why nobody use skillchain in ffXI since 10 years now, and it's because they're slow, they do poor damage, they take too much to execute and generally speaking it's much more convenient spamming skill when avaiable because they do more damage. Also, FFXI have a combat system in slow-motion, there's really no way that kind of mechanic could work here. We are no more waiting tp to build before using 1 skill

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That's not true, in the early days of the game when the content was hard we used skillchains with elemental seal magic burst all the time on god fights / notorious monsters. Because that was the best damage possible. Now... No.

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Originally Posted by Reslin

I'm talking about overall peak. EQ fell because of Sony making some very very weird decisions. Removing exploration when that was one of the major focuses in EQ. If left alone as is it would have retained peak for a long time but sony shot themselves in the foot instead. That's why I and all my friends left.

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I was there: EQ plummeted because of Gates of Discord. It was a shove you in the dirt, grind your face off, unforgiving hell-fest that drove away and burned out the largest guilds...even FoH went to WoW... rumor was Furor got a job there... I dunno.

(Edit: This expansion was fairly soon after PoP- which I and many considered the pinnacle of the EQ lore. After that it kind of went off the rails....that only made it even easier to leave.)

FFXI came out after EQ had made that disaster, and I and many people tried it out- FFXI was NOT the same era as EQ- it was years after and EQ had paved the way for it.

WoW came out even after XI... and it was a much more "friendly" game, that attracted a lot of the burn outs from the older games. Sadly, this game was "easier" and attracted people like me because we were "retiring" from the "serious" games. It wasn't the level of easy it is today, but because it was so available across countries and OSs... and had such friendly system requirements.. it was an entry point to gaming for many. These new gamers only knew the "easier" form of gaming and it defined the genre for them. (Burning Crusade Generation)

For those gamers that want to go back to some of the more demanding gaming styles- maybe you have recovered... maybe you never burned out... these are considered antiquated and undesirable systems for many post-WoW gamers.

You will notice, though that there is a lot of nostalgia even in WoW around the Burning Crusade as that is when a huge chunk of players entered the game and had their first MMO experience.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I was there: EQ plummeted because of Gates of Discord. It was a shove you in the dirt, grind your face off, unforgiving hell-fest that drove away and burned out the largest guilds...even FoH went to WoW... rumor was Furor got a job there... I dunno.

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Furor was a famous name due to a lot of items being named after him. It was a little joke during the Vanilla days.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Alex_Afrasiabi