Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

If the AST rework is awful gameplay-wise in 7.0, then we won't get another chance at un-awful-ing it until 8.0, at best we will get bandaid fixes to make it 'slightly more playable'. DRG, on the other hand, will get an emergency re-rework in 7.05 just in time for Savage, most likely, since it is a DPS

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Not a 100% sure about that. If AST is a complete bust, as in it has little to no usage in content AFTER the rework and if media channels are all saying its bad, the devs probably would prioritize revamping it. But its all a numbers game in the end. They need to see something doing bad statistically to justify spending hours on reworking it. I mean consider SMN in this case. The meme there is legos, and that it is a bit braindead for a job, but it is showing a ton of usage regardless of how 'good' the rework was. There is little reason for them to rework it again at this point cause it is, atleast on paper, a success (though perhaps they are aware that maybe they overcorrected, going from a nightmare rotation to one a drinking bird could complete)

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

We know that they won't add actual DPS healer because it breaks entire balance of role system.

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But tanks being able to literally solo 8 person raid bosses when they're current doesn't. . .

The only role in the game this entire thread is healers because they're the worst designed job in the game.

They're not engaging, they're not fun, they're the first to be dropped in content.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

If the AST rework is awful gameplay-wise in 7.0, then we won't get another chance at un-awful-ing it until 8.0, at best we will get bandaid fixes to make it 'slightly more playable'. DRG, on the other hand, will get an emergency re-rework in 7.05 just in time for Savage, most likely, since it is a DPS

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Case in point: Ninjas got a major rework right before an ultimate dropped. (5.1)

Yoshi: We're confident our ninja players are good enough to adjust in a short time frame.

Meanwhile, Yoshi on healers: Our healer tester got too good so we had to replace him with someone worse.

Here was the one post that Depectus has with the interview about the healer change https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5878730

It’s the feeling of wanting your role to not be a collective burden on the entire system

In a trinity based game (no matter how dilute role responsibilities are these days) you should never actively benefit from removing one of the three roles, but right now in anything lower than extreme a sufficiently competent party is being actively hindered by the presence of a healer, no matter how competent said healer is

Remove the DPS- hope you like the dungeon/raid taking 30 minutes
Remove the tank- hope you like single pulling or maybe a spicy double pull if the healer adlo bots/the DPS dying to every tankbuster
Remove the healer- congrats the run is now 5-10 minutes faster with zero downsides

Having your role be an enforced burden feels like absolute garbage

I mean isnt this essentially saying hte problem is actually outgoing damage?

If you can complete content without a healer present, it means that (basically) damage is so low that healing is redundant cause tank/dps skills can cover for it.

Giving healers more damage so theyre more akin to DPS/tanks doesnt actually solve the problem cause then it still is "Just bring an actual DPS instead of a psuedo DPS".

Then again, healing being so non useful is also an issue of dumbing down teh content to much for non EX/Savage/Ultimates, while overpowering some classes. I like the concept of a sustain tank, but lets be real, Warrior Sustain is to good for what it should be and probably for overall health of the game needs to be nerfed.

However we once again we had the whole Abyssos tier where they did increase the outgoing damage and we had that whole part where healers were not joining recruitment parties and that was on the high end content. Imagine if there was such a shakeup in the mid (for what content there is) or the causal scene where there could cause huge ripples.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

I mean isnt this essentially saying hte problem is actually outgoing damage?

If you can complete content without a healer present, it means that (basically) damage is so low that healing is redundant cause tank/dps skills can cover for it.

Giving healers more damage so theyre more akin to DPS/tanks doesnt actually solve the problem cause then it still is "Just bring an actual DPS instead of a psuedo DPS".

Then again, healing being so non useful is also an issue of dumbing down teh content to much for non EX/Savage/Ultimates, while overpowering some classes. I like the concept of a sustain tank, but lets be real, Warrior Sustain is to good for what it should be and probably for overall health of the game needs to be nerfed.

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We (as in the healer forums as a collective) aren’t opposed to higher damage, in fact most of us want an increase in damage and a decrease in healing throughput ALONGSIDE an increase in our rotational complexity so even with a more complex rotation we are still overall pressing more of our cumulative buttons on healing

We just are also working within the elastic framework that increasing outgoing damage (or conversely lowering healing throughput) constitutes a flat raise to the skill floor of healers; which square absolutely despises

The reason we tend to laser focus in on DPS options is because they are the only thing that raises the ceiling without raising the floor as well, the medica 2 bots can ignore 6 DPS buttons as much as they ignore the current 2 but at least we get something more interesting to do

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

However we once again we had the whole Abyssos tier where they did increase the outgoing damage and we had that whole part where healers were not joining recruitment parties and that was on the high end content. Imagine if there was such a shakeup in the mid (for what content there is) or the causal scene where there could cause huge ripples.

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And as has been said to death that was specifically because the tanks and the DPS wouldn’t help us mitigate the DOT’s then blame us when people died because of that, the amount of times in abyssos a tank would eat a dot buster raw then try to mitigate the DOT after the fact; die then go “where are the eels” was way too many

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

We (as in the healer forums as a collective) aren’t opposed to higher damage, in fact most of us want an increase in damage and a decrease in healing throughput ALONGSIDE an increase in our rotational complexity so even with a more complex rotation we are still overall pressing more of our cumulative buttons on healing

We just are also working within the elastic framework that increasing outgoing damage (or conversely lowering healing throughput) constitutes a flat raise to the skill floor of healers; which square absolutely despises

The reason we tend to laser focus in on DPS options is because they are the only thing that raises the ceiling without raising the floor as well, the medica 2 bots can ignore 6 DPS buttons as much as they ignore the current 2 but at least we get something more interesting to do.

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So, if I understand it, increase dmg overall so healing has to be a thing and you cant just "Lol warrior sustain go burrr", but making healing that damage easier by (Im guessing?) increasing heal potency and reducing necessary heals in kit to be more oGCD based, thus opening up room for a GCD rotation of some sorts?

I mean that could work, but again that shifts the role of the class to be more inherently DPS orientated. Again, not saying its bad, but it does come with baggage.

Not gonna lie, it would be kind of interesting from a playstyle perspective IF you made a DPS rotation of sorts, that it rewarded correct use of your dmg skills with oGCD heals, thus tying the two together in a management system where you cant rely heavily on one side or the other, but I also imagine that might be hell to balance.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

So, if I understand it, increase dmg overall so healing has to be a thing and you cant just "Lol warrior sustain go burrr", but making healing that damage easier by (Im guessing?) increasing heal potency and reducing necessary heals in kit to be more oGCD based, thus opening up room for a GCD rotation of some sorts?

I mean that could work, but again that shifts the role of the class to be more inherently DPS orientated. Again, not saying its bad, but it does come with baggage.

Not gonna lie, it would be kind of interesting from a playstyle perspective IF you made a DPS rotation of sorts, that it rewarded correct use of your dmg skills with oGCD heals, thus tying the two together in a management system where you cant rely heavily on one side or the other, but I also imagine that might be hell to balance.

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Half right, most of us who regularly talk on the healer forums want both an increase to damage and a nerf to oGCD heals, I want to feel it necessary to press succor more than once in a blue moon, I don’t want an oGCD that just does succor but better with zero downsides

From my own perspective, that seems more ideal, so healing is more rewarding as a concept instead of an afterthought

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

From my own perspective, that seems more ideal, so healing is more rewarding as a concept instead of an afterthought

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In the beginning, healing was a dance. Healers had a larger library of attack spells--mostly DOTs--to supplement healing downtime with something more engaging--something that had a gameplay loop. At the same time, you more often needed to stop your DPS in order to heal, because OGCD healing methods were limited, or nearly non-existent (if we're talking about ARR). ARR White Mage had exactly 1 OGCD heal: Benediction on a 5 minute cooldown. That's not to say that more OGCD healing wasn't a healthy step forward for healers, because the added cooldowns provided by HW were a really good addition to each healer, as that gave them more flexibility in things like mobility, MP management, and DPS windows to meet their healing goals. But the problem with constantly adding more and more OGCDs is that the demand for healing has not scaled to meet the increase in healing powercreep we've seen from one expansion to the next. This has been very unhealthy to that balance between offense and recovery that was once the star of healer gameplay and what set FFXIV healing apart from WOW healing.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Not gonna lie, it would be kind of interesting from a playstyle perspective IF you made a DPS rotation of sorts, that it rewarded correct use of your dmg skills with oGCD heals, thus tying the two together in a management system where you cant rely heavily on one side or the other, but I also imagine that might be hell to balance.

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For over a year now, I've advocated for something along the lines of this for WHM (and SE is free to use all/parts of it), a system wherein casting any non-Lily GCD (damage or healing) contributes to a new gauge, that goes from 0-100. With 50 Gauge, you'd be able to use a new AOE healing GCD that I referred to as 'Blessing of the Elementals', but you could call it Cure IV if you wanted. Said heal would then grant you three buffs upon use (or 3 new thingys on a job gauge, to prevent buff cap issues), corresponding to Earth, Water, Wind. These buffs would each allow for one 'empowered' cast of Stone/Glare, Aero/Dia (reworked to be 12s) and Water/Banish (a 15s CD instantcast GCD, akin to Fluid Aura of old but on the GCD, about 40p stronger than your current Stone/Glare), turning them into Quake, Tornado and Flood respectively. Said skills, when you take 'the difference between the regular and empowered form's potencies' of all three, and add them together, would add up to be equal to the one Glare cast you lost casting the AOE heal GCD, making it damage neutral to execute. For example, I had been working with Glare being 310p, Dia 430 total, and Banish 350, making Quake 410 (+100), Flood 450 (+100) and Tornado 540 (little unique, +30 to the cast, +20 on each tick).

To a casual player, I would expect such a system to be 'cool I get a powerful new heal, and I get to use these cool attacks after using it'. For an optimization-minded player, think about Misery. We use the heals outside of raidbuffs, even if we don't need them, to put the Misery in raidbuffs, effectively 'transplanting' three Glare casts from outside buffs, into buffs. This would be similar, albeit with lower overall impact, moving only one Glare from outside raidbuffs (by casting the heal AOE) into raidbuffs. The peak level of 'optimized 2min burst window' on the system would see your Raidbuff burst window go from something like:

Glare (POM), Dia (Assize), Misery, Glare x however many until raidbuffs fall off

to something more like:

Blessing, Blessing (POM), Flood (Assize), Tornado, Misery, Quake, Quake, Glare, Tornado, Flood, Glare away

And it doesn't stop there, because... what if we simply add the text 'and 50% less to all other enemies' to the tooltips of those new elemental skills? Suddenly, with Holy being able to generate gauge for us in AOE (I had it as '2 per enemy hit', so a 7-mob pull would be +14 per cast), using this healing skill in AOE would not only help keep the tank alive, but also give access to three new, more-damage-than-Holy, skills for the AOE rotation (On secondary targets, Quake being 205, Tornado's total inc DOT being 270, Flood being 225, compared to Holy's 150). Being able to bank gauge at the end of a boss fight, double Blessing the tank as they gather up the mobs, and then letting rip with 6 GCDs of pure elemental devastation, I find it hard to believe there'd be many players (regardless of skill level/time committed to role) turning that down

So yeh, I think that 'having damage and healing aspects of the kit complement each other, rather than feel like two disjointed halves vying for the player's full attention' is the way to go. If we can have 'use heals, get repaid with damage' via Misery, why not go a step further with 'use damage, get repaid with heals, use those and get repaid with damage again' and create a full loop?

I'd also change the Toxikon proc from shield breaks on SGE from what it is, to 'one free use of Phlegma without regard to cooldown or cost' ala Dark Arts on DRK. it's still a 60p loss to prep a shield that way, but it's a lot better than the current 330p we lose at the moment, and could lead to some 'well actually it's a gain' situations re: movement

It mainly just wanting something to do during downtime which very abundant in this game and the reason we pick dps is that its the lowest hanging fruit outside of more healing interactions (which has a chance of raising the skill floor) or buffs and debuffs (which requires more focus on balancing and changes to how they view classes with sch and astro as the buffers and whm and sge as the selfish ones.)

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

I mean isnt this essentially saying hte problem is actually outgoing damage?

If you can complete content without a healer present, it means that (basically) damage is so low that healing is redundant cause tank/dps skills can cover for it.

Giving healers more damage so theyre more akin to DPS/tanks doesnt actually solve the problem cause then it still is "Just bring an actual DPS instead of a psuedo DPS".

Then again, healing being so non useful is also an issue of dumbing down teh content to much for non EX/Savage/Ultimates, while overpowering some classes. I like the concept of a sustain tank, but lets be real, Warrior Sustain is to good for what it should be and probably for overall health of the game needs to be nerfed.

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Which is why a some healers are suggesting pivoting from meaningless damage to more group utility, increasing the damage that the others should be doing through engaging systems (buffs / debuffs )

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

I mean that could work, but again that shifts the role of the class to be more inherently DPS orientated. Again, not saying its bad, but it does come with baggage.

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Healers already are DPS oriented because every job in FFXIV is DPS oriented. The difference is other roles have multiple buttons to express that and we have the exact same 2 buttons from lvl 4 to lvl 90 (and probably lvl 100) to accomplish that task, one of those 2 buttons only being used once every 30s.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Honestly at this stage I genuinely don't know.

If it was my job I'd be massively stripping back and simplifying the healing oGCD bloat and I'd be looking at ways to make bosses steamroll tanks once again like they used to back in ARR/HW through crits, non telegraphed mini tank busters etcetc. If a WHM feels like Regen is a wasted GCD on a tank against a boss, that boss isn't hitting hard enough, no ifs no buts. Giving us a much more streamlined kit with shorter cooldowns on multifaceted abilities that force us to think about our positioning relative to the group would go a long way towards stopping the brain rot as you sit on your mark with little to no care.

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A random spitball idea for positioning, but what if a healer's biggest healing AoEs were kind of like meteor mechanics in which the further you are, the less healing you receive. This forces either the healer or the ranged DPS (or depending on the mechanic, melee DPS) to adjust for group healing like they do now for Cure 3. If it forces the healer to move, then they have more things to do, and the dps certainly won't do the moving since they barely move now anyway.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

For over a year now, I've advocated for something along the lines of this for WHM (and SE is free to use all/parts of it), a system wherein casting any non-Lily GCD (damage or healing) contributes to a new gauge, that goes from 0-100. With 50 Gauge, you'd be able to use a new AOE healing GCD that I referred to as 'Blessing of the Elementals', but you could call it Cure IV if you wanted. Said heal would then grant you three buffs upon use (or 3 new thingys on a job gauge, to prevent [...]

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Where can I vote for you ?

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...88aee7c743a98d

Seems we are finally getting a bit of news in March for dawntrail but of course whether or not they talk about healers is an entirely different question.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...88aee7c743a98d

Seems we are finally getting a bit of news in March for dawntrail but of course whether or not they talk about healers is an entirely different question.

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I dunno how you can keep up the copium.
Subjects on the chopping block: Every job, positionals, MP, skill range and more. Pls look forward to it.

Game went from huh, dungeons are kinda fun to run to why does my class gameplay suck everywhere.

It isn't so much copium but rather this is the biggest thread to call Yoshi-P and his team the morons that they are when it comes to healers.

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...88aee7c743a98d

Seems we are finally getting a bit of news in March for dawntrail but of course whether or not they talk about healers is an entirely different question.

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They won't talk about healers at all until the media tour live letter where they talk about job changes and show the trailer for job changes... and even then we'll get the shortest amount of time of any role lmao

Can't wait for 150+ questions to be asked, and of those, 3 to be about healers, and of THOSE, 0 to be actually answered and not dodged

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Can't wait for 150+ questions to be asked, and of those, 3 to be about healers, and of THOSE, 0 to be actually answered and not dodged

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Gotta answer at least 30+ questions about Graha Tia, what food he's going to stuff down his windpipe and what colour his underwear is in DT after all.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

They won't talk about healers at all until the media tour live letter where they talk about job changes and show the trailer for job changes... and even then we'll get the shortest amount of time of any role lmao

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AST is supposed to be getting a "rework" whatever that means.

At this point, my assumption is that the March event will be the benchmark trailer with some soft overview details about combat, but nothing too specific. Then sometime in May we'll see the job actions trailer, and the Media Tour in June for the game to launch sometime in July or early August.

I'm starting to think that the Devs should go watch some anime that has trinity groups in them to remind them how the trinity is supposed to work.

Tanks - Heroic meat shields that hold the focus of the monsters, sometimes taking damage for others but not the primary group healer (looking at you Warriors).
DPS - Melee has to dodge a lot of close range attacks but does great damage, ranged damage that doesn't have to move often but when they do, they can run fast or rely on the healers to put up a shield.
Healers - Keeping people alive via heals or shields, very limited damage, lots of outgoing damage enhancing and incoming damage reduction bufs.

There is nothing wrong with healers being allowed to do the damage they are, the problem is just how the damage is done in such a boring way, 14’s NetCode is terrible for reactive healing and I mean honestly if you want to healslut a paper tank then unironically go play WOW, it’s healing is designed way better but ironically that’s what you are going to be doing in WOW

SCH in HW being a healing specced DPS is the kind of balance I want out of my healers, I don’t want be a healslut but I also don’t want to forget I’m a healer either

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I'm starting to think that the Devs should go watch some anime that has trinity groups in them to remind them how the trinity is supposed to work.

Tanks - Heroic meat shields that hold the focus of the monsters, sometimes taking damage for others but not the primary group healer (looking at you Warriors).
DPS - Melee has to dodge a lot of close range attacks but does great damage, ranged damage that doesn't have to move often but when they do, they can run fast or rely on the healers to put up a shield.
Healers - Keeping people alive via heals or shields, very limited damage, lots of outgoing damage enhancing and incoming damage reduction bufs.

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This doesn't mean that every game that incorporate a trinity system has to be a strict copy/paste of each other, nor that this interpretation of the trinity system must hold for all time, and cannot be modified in any way.

So to sum up what everyone is stating here so people who are coming into this got a better clue: This is the plateau effect. So what happens in games with low skill ceilings is that people will have fun with the game for 10 hours, 20 hours, 100 hours, etc, until they hit the plateau where it just isn't possible to go further. This is why games like Elden Ring, Star Fox, Mech Warrior, and these other non-MMORPG games have people constantly coming back to them. Even Skyrim technical has a very high skill ceiling.

What the game developers of FFXIV are doing is effectively a form of suicide for the sake of a short term profit. They dumbed down the jobs and therefore took the reigns from the player and made it so that they are controlling the difficulty through puzzles and other odd mechanical interactions, which are limited to specific spaces in the game. To have longevity, the learning has to be within the hands of the player and the game has to be something that makes people want to learn these other jobs. Using cheap tactics like achievements and shiny weapons is not going to add longevity to the game, it turns it into a quick lunch-a-thon that people will jump into to grab the latest shiny, grow bored of it within minutes, and move onto something else.

And this is actually true even when looking through the lense of someone who plans out ultimates. They spreadsheet out when to use certain mits and such, but does this have any meaning in the majority of the game? Does it matter if someone uses a mitigation at X time during a normal run of an EX dungeon? I watched people just steamroll the mist dragon from Stormblood on a warrior by just spamming self healing the entire time and dodging a few simple mechanics. If the jobs are this easy, there is no longevity to the game. They will get a boost from Xbox players for a few short months and once people are done, they are going to leave and not really come back unless it's for some short term thing.

What healers are really complaining about is not the fact they lack a DPS rotation: They are complaining that their job is meaningless because with the 2 minute window there is no skill to using anything. Everything is advertised or easily understood in the fights, down to when the boss is going to use a big attack or when some enemy is going to utilize an AOE, so the ultimate healer experience is pressing 1 continuously after a short period of learning how all the skills work. DPS at least have to manage potion windows still alongside having to manage dealing with timing on weapon skills not always being perfect.

I think someone who can actually speak Japanese who can get through the language barrier should be able to get the sentiment to Yoshi that "I don't want more ways to avoid casting cure, I want more things to do when I don't need to heal."

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

I think someone who can actually speak Japanese who can get through the language barrier should be able to get the sentiment to Yoshi that "I don't want more ways to avoid casting cure, I want more things to do when I don't need to heal."

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I mean, the problem is that they took away the ability for people to want to come back and learn more about how to play a job with the 2 minute window and the redesign in shadowbringers. People either are going to complain about the lack of depth (I.e. want more dps buttons on healer so I can do something, because it adds depth to the job since you have to choose to either heal or continue a chain of attack), or play and just leave the game for extended periods of time until the next movie gets released with a coming expansion without so much as saying a word.

Over simplifying a game impacts more than the game but the attitude of the community. Super simple games do not encourage people to come together, they go at each others throats because the new people don't realize how hollow it is, and the people who are experienced don't realize how shallow the water is in the pool consciously and then tell these people to go read a simple guide on job rotation or whatever that takes all of 10 minutes to read, then go practice on a striking dummy.

"Over simplifying a game impacts more than the game but the attitude of the community. Super simple games do not encourage people to come together, they go at each others throats because the new people don't realize how hollow it is, and the people who are experienced don't realize how shallow the water is in the pool consciously and then tell these people to go read a simple guide on job rotation or whatever that takes all of 10 minutes to read, then go practice on a striking dummy."

First of all I don't see the "going at each other's throats" being applicable, in some cases there are people who are going to be unreasonable but that's probably intrinsic to their personality, I don't see the root cause being due to the game design. A job design doesn't have to be complex to be done well, as this thread is focussed on healers specifically - look at the number of buttons currently available to healers in PvP- each of the healers is functional and has a unique feel.

To rephrase what you are saying, part of what makes a healer interesting is the decision making - choosing to use a DPS skill or a heal, another part is a flexible choice in DPS skills- hitting only "1" is boring - especially in solo play, another part is the levelling experience- healers really don't get a feeling of power as they go from about level 30 to endgame..I could go on. Also - the reference to the striking dummy is rather irrelevant to healers - it's more like (if you've boosted) - if you've never healed, run with trusts or a low level dungeon until you're comfortable.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

First of all I don't see the "going at each other's throats" being applicable, in some cases there are people who are going to be unreasonable but that's probably intrinsic to their personality, I don't see the root cause being due to the game design. A job design doesn't have to be complex to be done well, as this thread is focussed on healers specifically - look at the number of buttons currently available to healers in PvP- each of the healers is functional and has a unique feel.

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We don't need 20 different buttons to heal in slightly different ways. Having a smaller but more effective selection of more specific types of healing tools is a far more interesting way to approach to healing, and that same logic can apply to DPS as well, particularly when such tools interact in dynamic ways.

It actually makes me wonder if each job were rebuilt from the ground up with that mentality, with a total of say 16 buttons on each job, what would that look like?

If you did shadow bringer pvp you'd have a good idea. Those were some of the most well designed jobs xiv has done.

More healers should have done feast if they wanted high skill healing. You were happy you only had 3 dps buttons because you didn't have time to be pressing them.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

If you did shadow bringer pvp you'd have a good idea. Those were some of the most well designed jobs xiv has done.

More healers should have done feast if they wanted high skill healing. You were happy you only had 3 dps buttons because you didn't have time to be pressing them.

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I've seen that in other games, and I agree, it can be quite satisfying- albeit nerve wracking at times in PvP . However I'd be quite happy - in fact happier- to have a good balance of both DPS and healing skills in PVE which I haven't given up on in this game.

I think you saw my healer redesigns? I'm also an advocate for much more dps centered healers. To much of the game's content simply doesn't facilitate needing to heal, and they're not going to retroactively change it. I'd rather have something that feels good in all contents than only one super niche one.

My apologies, I may not have, I'll have to take a look, it sounds interesting.

I’m not saying this against your your point above just as an observance, I feel like 14 needs healers to do the level of damage they do currently otherwise the WOL cannot really be a healer

Like let’s pick a random moment from the MSQ……..say when you fight Zenos as rhalgars reach, if healers in this game were designed as sylphies healing paper tanks how would this fight actually go

The WOL is the single strongest person (assumed) on the entire planet, if they chose to main a caster they should be incredibly adept at it, sylphie healers really don’t work with the lore of who the WOL is

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Like let’s pick a random moment from the MSQ……..say when you fight Zenos as rhalgars reach, if healers in this game were designed as sylphies healing paper tanks how would this fight actually go

The WOL is the single strongest person (assumed) on the entire planet, if they chose to main a caster they should be incredibly adept at it, sylphie healers really don’t work with the lore of who the WOL is

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Or put another way: You can't heal the enemy to death. Healers are required to do damage to do the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Or put another way: You can't heal the enemy to death. Healers are required to do damage to do the MSQ.

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For some reason that made me think of having Cleric Stance back and make your healing skills target and do damage to the enemy.

Besides Benediction... that would just be OP.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Or put another way: You can't heal the enemy to death. Healers are required to do damage to do the MSQ.

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I’m not even necessarily discussing the fact that it wouldn’t make sense from a gameplay perspective, I mean from an actual in game lore perspective. Like how can the WOL be the most powerful person in the world if they literally can’t do damage

The idea that healers are also accomplished damage casters makes lore sense