A summary of healer issues

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Originally Posted by Vortuna

Talking about that full-warrior clear as if tankCoB didn't exist, shall we nerf clemency too?

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"Tanks are so overpowered that they regularly clear current and ultimate-difficulty content while flaunting the hell out of the trinity. The fact that this is neither uncommon nor a recent development makes it okay."

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Don't really feel like creating a thread that will get forcibly moved to the tank forums so might as well put it here:

P2S cleared by an all Warrior team.

That's:

Both current EX's done without a healer

1st and 2nd savage fight in current content done without a healer.

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I just want to point out that when Ramuh EX was cleared without tanks during patch 2.3, it took SE 1 day to hotfix the Ramuh fight and abolish the no tank strategy.

Ramuh was added in July 7th, 2014. On July 14th, several videos of the strategy in action were published including MrHappy reporting on it and testing it out to confirm the strategy worked.

[NA] FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Hotfixes (Jul. 15, 2014)

The following issues have been addressed:

• An issue in “The Striking Tree (Hard)” and “The Striking Tree (Extreme)”, wherein the damage taken by pets was abnormally low.

Source: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...48#post2267548

Just want to say this regarding What we want #9:

9. Give back the old unique options for esuna (leeches and exalted detriment)

Having played the Physical Ranged jobs, Shield Samba / Tactician / Troubador being different buttons seems counterintuitive. They all do the exact same thing.

I think this points back to that healer double standard I'm always harping on. The game needs to be designed in a consistent way with consistent rules for everyone.

Either similar abilities need to be one button or job flavor exists. Pick one.

I'm actually working on this atm

Considering the sheer complaints about the destruction of job identity, I'm in favour of restoring them with secondary effects and a synergy buff that boosts the next gcd attack as a reward for healing. Tanks have some of their mitigation to be different despite being the same function (yes i know about rampart) and that is preferred by most.

Why should healers suffer further?

Example proposals:
-Leeches restores some mp to the sch. They suck blood after all and energy drain also drains the enemy's blood to restore hp and mp
-Esuna adds a weak shield equal to cure 1 as a nod to ff2 where it could cure KO with 1 hp
-Exalted detriment restores some health equal to benefic 1
-Sage's version should grant an addersting as a reward for cleansing

and all of these should reward the next gcd attack with double potency to make up for the gcd if they aren't going to mae cleanses worthwhile

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

I'm actually working on this atm

Considering the sheer complaints about the destruction of job identity, I'm in favour of restoring them with secondary effects and a synergy buff that boosts the next gcd attack as a reward for healing. Tanks have some of their mitigation to be different despite being the same function (yes i know about rampart) and that is preferred by most.

Why should healers suffer further?

Example proposals:
-Leeches restores some mp to the sch. They suck blood after all and energy drain also drains the enemy's blood to restore hp and mp
-Esuna adds a weak shield equal to cure 1 as a nod to ff2 where it could cure KO with 1 hp
-Exalted detriment restores some health equal to benefic 1
-Sage's version should grant an addersting as a reward for cleansing

and all of these should reward the next gcd attack with double potency to make up for the gcd if they aren't going to mae cleanses worthwhile

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More class mechanics is good, especially for healers.

But of course the problem for this specific example would be the need for partymembers to actually be inflicted with removable debuffs. Just like with healing, you can make it super fun engaging and interesting, but if it healing (or in this case, cleansing/dispelling) isn't actually needed or required, your fantastic design goes down the gutter.

This would be amazing if for example, healers could actually remove Vulnerability and damage down debuffs.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

More class mechanics is good, especially for healers.

But of course the problem for this specific example would be the need for partymembers to actually be inflicted with removable debuffs. Just like with healing, you can make it super fun engaging and interesting, but if it healing (or in this case, cleansing/dispelling) isn't actually needed or required, your fantastic design goes down the gutter.

This would be amazing if for example, healers could actually remove Vulnerability and damage down debuffs.

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Considering how they've strayed away from any healer mechanics other than "Heal more" or Stack mechanics, the likelihood of making Esuna actually useful for anything beside removeable Doom is about as likely as aggro mechanics becoming a thing again.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

More class mechanics is good, especially for healers.

But of course the problem for this specific example would be the need for partymembers to actually be inflicted with removable debuffs. Just like with healing, you can make it super fun engaging and interesting, but if it healing (or in this case, cleansing/dispelling) isn't actually needed or required, your fantastic design goes down the gutter.

This would be amazing if for example, healers could actually remove Vulnerability and damage down debuffs.

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Endgame content has been lacking uses for Esuna in general. Feels like a forgotten button at this point

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Just want to say this regarding What we want #9:

9. Give back the old unique options for esuna (leeches and exalted detriment)

Having played the Physical Ranged jobs, Shield Samba / Tactician / Troubador being different buttons seems counterintuitive. They all do the exact same thing.

I think this points back to that healer double standard I'm always harping on. The game needs to be designed in a consistent way with consistent rules for everyone.

Either similar abilities need to be one button or job flavor exists. Pick one.

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At this point, I don't really care about this. There are so many issues with healing that are a detriment to the gameplay that whether or not niche buttons with the same functionality have the same icon and animation is a moot point to me. Considering the track record of how healer concerns are misconstrued, I'd worry that bringing this up might convince the team that this is the only problem and just correct superficial issues, assuming any of this actually got listened to.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

At this point, I don't really care about this. There are so many issues with healing that are a detriment to the gameplay that whether or not niche buttons with the same functionality have the same icon and animation is a moot point to me. Considering the track record of how healer concerns are misconstrued, I'd worry that bringing this up might convince the team that this is the only problem and just correct superficial issues, assuming any of this actually got listened to.

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this is why it was far down on the list
aesthetics come last in the list. First a kit needs to be fun. Then functional, then "balanced", then cosmetic

when I eventually finish the updated version of this for EW, number 1 issue is getting more damage options, number 2 is more to heal

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Originally Posted by Recon1o6

this is why it was far down on the list
aesthetics come last in the list. First a kit needs to be fun. Then functional, then "balanced", then cosmetic

when I eventually finish the updated version of this for EW, number 1 issue is getting more damage options, number 2 is more to heal

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I don't really believe we're going to get more to heal no matter what we do. They've pretty firmly planted their stake in the matter, and while it's not impossible for them to change their mind, they definitely just want people to clear without issues, and the one way they can control that regardless of player skill is lowering damage output. That said, I do feel like there's more hope for more value getting added to GCD healing like with DPS neutral lilies and adderstings. If you give me an incentive to use GCD healing over OGCD healing, that they will indirectly give us more opportunities to choose healing even when OGCD healing options are available which does at least gently address the core of our concerns. I don't mean to discourage you trying of course, but that's just my two cents on the matter.

I've used this phrase before, but we are basically in a position of begging for table scraps, which just feels hopeless for a lot of people. It's hard to really hope that anything will happen, but I do feel like there is logic in improving at least some of the concerns in a way that can benefit their objectives with healers, but perhaps that's just lofty expectations.