Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Should I be expecting considerably less damage on t6 compared to t8? Trying to give my raid leader a point of reference, the vines are absolutely killing me, though.

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Not considerably less, but you will do less, there's a lot more mechanics that will hurt your damage, at least up until the final phase where you go all out.

So what's the consensus regarding Novus? going +31det and +44crit?
Does a full soldiery set (without sands) give enough acc to make up for the loss of +40 acc the animus has?

I'm at a point with skillspeed that I can life surge a full thrust or I can save it so that I can hit a life surged b4b full thrust after ht, true thrust, vorpal thrust 4 gcds later.

Is it a dps increase or decrease to wait for the bfb?

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Originally Posted by Erudain

So what's the consensus regarding Novus? going +31det and +44crit?
Does a full soldiery set (without sands) give enough acc to make up for the loss of +40 acc the animus has?

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The consensus right now is "do pretty much as you want", since you'd have to guess how much acc you'd need on the weapon wheeeen you'll upgrade it to whatever will be after novus for the new content.

If you have full un-upgraded Sold gear and no accuracy on your weapon, you'd have 471 accuracy, up to 487 if you used Allagan Ring of Striking.
That would be enough for T6/7, where you could get an high allagan (and oil of time) to bring you to the cap for T8/9

I have a drg with an atma gae bolg, full i90 gear except hands and feet where they're extra HA pieces from my static. I'm usually a blm but I've been thinking of just switching over until I see the BLM changes and then decide (because drg has been pretty fun so far in the mobility department). However, I've been testing myself and I can only reach 328 on a dummy over 5 minutes. Should I be higher? I'm averaging 270 on levi ex with usually 1 bard beating me in numbers by 10 or 20 (in DF).

My rotation is pretty much the same as the one listed in the OP except I have this habit of going H>I>D>P on adds instead of P>H>I>D. Also not sure what to do with my cooldowns on very long standing fights like T8. B4B and life surge starts not lining up and I cant get that 1300 critical hit on my very first full thrust in my opening. Should I still just hit cooldowns as they come as long as they're not wasted by stuff like encounter breaks?

Hi there !
I follow this thread since I'm a fresh lvl 50 DRG. (Long time ago)
Even if I have cleaned T7 without big issue or lack of dps I'm worried about something ... I've read some thread about the dps and see ~450dps on turn 8 for DRG. How !?
I usually go around 300 (busy with tower - 350 on a doll). The only skill I don't use anymore is Fracture but I rigourously follow my rotation. Dis always up every buff up especially my HT one.
Maybe I do something wrong ... I don't know.

Here is my gear.

http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...0a7b9b16b5.png

About my gear. Animus and Gloam ring (not weathered)
Is that a good deal to go for Liberator if I get the Sand and then try to get the i100 armor for acc? I have tons of memo but I rarely use it since I'm not sure about my final gear.
I take a look on BiS but vivacity ... Still bad or good idea? I'm not sure but my aa don't benefit it.

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Originally Posted by Jeycht

Hi there !
I follow this thread since I'm a fresh lvl 50 DRG. (Long time ago)
Even if I have cleaned T7 without big issue or lack of dps I'm worried about something ... I've read some thread about the dps and see ~450dps on turn 8 for DRG. How !?
I usually go around 300 (busy with tower - 350 on a doll).

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Those hitting 450+ is close or at i110 with the i115 weapon and have selene and tp songs active.

Like the only way I think I can hit 450 is if I don't do any towers, don't lb and have selene and tp song always up.

Oh right. I have Selene too. 100dps more with 10 more ilvl and 4-5 weap dam ? ._.

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Originally Posted by Jeycht

Oh right. I have Selene too. 100dps more with 10 more ilvl and 4-5 weap dam ? ._.

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It's like 60-70 more strength from gear plus the weapon damage

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

It's like 60-70 more strength from gear plus the weapon damage

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I guess. Maybe I could buy some gears but I'm waiting for advice about vivacity. I go all for crit since that's impossible to have high deter with the new gear.
Something like that.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/M6AF

But maybe vivacity could be worth it.

Yeah, as Yan Dere said, 450 on a DRG in T8 is extremely high, and you're going to want close to BIS and HA weapon to reach that. The highest I've managed to reach with Liberator and i105 was 415~

That being said, with your current gear, I feel like 300 dps is rather on the low end. Even with allagan spear you should be capable of at least hitting 320~340 consistently while dealing with mechanics, with animus it should be higher.

None of the above include selene in the mix.

Without knowing more the only advice I can really offer though is to ensure that you keep up autoattacks, and make the most of your HT during dreads. Using x-potions of STR is a good idea as well.

In regards to sands, you absolutely want to use this on your weapon before all else.

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Originally Posted by Riotpersona

That being said, with your current gear, I feel like 300 dps is rather on the low end. Even with allagan spear you should be capable of at least hitting 320~340 consistently while dealing with mechanics, with animus it should be higher.

None of the above include selene in the mix.

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How many towers do you do? Do you do any other mechanics? If you're getting selene and not running out of tp, then 300 dps is really low. I think you should be atleast like 350.

Around 50% hp of the boss. 3 towers (sometimes I need to wait a bit for the buff tower)
Sometimes a mine to blow up if something wrong with my mate (like low hp or 3 mines on my side)
I think I'm a bit far of the boss to aa everytime.

Almost run out of tp for like 20sec. I need to stop my rotation for a while until I get my +500tp.

I feel like your group needs to do a better job of delegating roles to everyone, and there is plenty of time to heal people between picking up mines, so you shouldn't really be required to play backup for that.

If TP is giving you issues and your BRD is unwilling to paeon, you may want to consider dropping phleb for a while if you think you're not going to hit your next invigorate.

I'm the one who delegate roles. ^^"
Except the mine I guess I'm just not good enough to reach a decent dps then ... Time to train more!
(No problem with my AA I check right now. If I can hit with my skill I can hit with my AA too. Wasn't sure about that -feel dumb-)

honestly the biggest thing i could think of, is that you have to stop dps for awhile. thats really gonna hurt numbers in the end. i would def talk to your bard about singing for you. work it out so you dont have to stop at all, besides towers.

Yep I going to ask for tp song and maybe check my rotation during this fight to be sure I don't do useless thing.
I do 350 dps (5min test) on doll without tp song, selene nor bonus group/food/potion, deal with towers/mines. Is that good ?

Edit: Question. I usually wait for my b4b buff before to use my 5% crit buff again. Good idea or not?

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Originally Posted by Jeycht

Yep I going to ask for tp song and maybe check my rotation during this fight to be sure I don't do useless thing.
I do 350 dps (5min test) on doll without tp song, selene nor bonus group/food/potion, deal with towers/mines. Is that good ?

Edit: Question. I usually wait for my b4b buff before to use my 5% crit buff again. Good idea or not?

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You generally want to use all your buffs at soon as possible. You should generally do it for 3 minutes because other people with more skillspeed will run out around 3minutes. I used to get about 350 with full i90 and allagan spear so you should definitely be hitting more.

hi guys I wanna ask your opinion on my pre t9-BiS, mostly I like to make my own BiS without looking as ready-BiS in the internet.
I think we'll be able to beat t9 in a month from now.
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MTD8
basically this BiS is with the Novus (44crit/31det) I manage to get:

564 Strength
544 Critical hit (!!)
307 Determination
505 Accuracy (can always switch the Astrum hands with HA hands for more acc for t9)
428 S. Speed


now this BiS is based on the Novus, which WILL take a while to make, but I think I'll get it before downing t9 (not even talking about being lucky enough for HA)
opinions?

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Originally Posted by Shinryuu8

hi guys I wanna ask your opinion on my pre t9-BiS, mostly I like to make my own BiS without looking as ready-BiS in the internet.
I think we'll be able to beat t9 in a month from now.
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MTD8
basically this BiS is with the Novus (44crit/31det) I manage to get:

564 Strength
544 Critical hit (!!)
307 Determination
505 Accuracy (can always switch the Astrum hands with HA hands for more acc for t9)
428 S. Speed


now this BiS is based on the Novus, which WILL take a while to make, but I think I'll get it before downing t9 (not even talking about being lucky enough for HA)
opinions?

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How come you are building CRIT?
Isn't DET almost double then CRIT in terms of stats weight?

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Originally Posted by Shinryuu8

hi guys I wanna ask your opinion on my pre t9-BiS, mostly I like to make my own BiS without looking as ready-BiS in the internet.
I think we'll be able to beat t9 in a month from now.
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MTD8
basically this BiS is with the Novus (44crit/31det) I manage to get:

564 Strength
544 Critical hit (!!)
307 Determination
505 Accuracy (can always switch the Astrum hands with HA hands for more acc for t9)
428 S. Speed


now this BiS is based on the Novus, which WILL take a while to make, but I think I'll get it before downing t9 (not even talking about being lucky enough for HA)
opinions?

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http://pastebin.com/Rh4qhbqV <----- copy paste, change weapon to Novus, done.

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Originally Posted by Andrens

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yeah, 0.2 crit = 0.35 det, but actually I wasn't planning on focusing on something in particular, I was aiming for at least 500 crit and 300 det... the huge boost in crit was because the sol pants.
if you have any suggestions on how to adjust things out in my BiS so it'll focus more on Det it'll be nice, but as far as I'm looking at it, the only piece with worth enough stats that focus on det is HA chest, and it's t9. but any suggestions are welcome.

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Originally Posted by Decrith

snip

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oh, I was looking at this one, and for a reason I said that I'm building MY OWN BiS without someone give it to me on a golden plate.
and check the stats with that BiS:

572 str (5 more str because of the belt)
448 crit (mine have 544...)
320 det (13 more det than me)
480 S. speed (which is a lot, even too much imo)

basically you took almost 100 crit out and added a bit here and a but there... I don't like this BiS anyway, it has too much S. speed.

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Originally Posted by Shinryuu8

I'm building MY OWN BiS

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When people say BiS, they mean a collection of gear that is mathematically (according to what we believe certain stats are worth) superior to any other.

You cannot have your own BiS, in this respect, yours will be mathematically inferior. So, you're not building "your BiS", there is no personal BiS. You're just picking stuff you like (which is fine).

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Originally Posted by JetBrooks

When people say BiS, they mean a collection of gear that is mathematically (according to what we believe certain stats are worth) superior to any other.

You cannot have your own BiS, in this respect, yours will be mathematically inferior. So, you're not building "your BiS", there is no personal BiS. You're just picking stuff you like (which is fine).

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You can build a personal BiS based on what items you have using the solvers, that's not the same as what they're doing I guess, but it is very much a thing that's possible. Compared to literally just picking whatever you want, using the solver would in fact output your own personal "BiS", just not THE BiS which isn't even realistic unless you literally have every item anyway.

Bis: best in slot, there is no alternative to this, there is only one best in slot. Bis: best in set, this can be "personal bis" lists :P

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Originally Posted by Itseotle

Bis: best in slot, there is no alternative to this, there is only one best in slot. Bis: best in set, this can be "personal bis" lists :P

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Technically, you're wrong. There's different BiS sets depending on accuracy requirements.

Curious on you guys thoughts on these two sets for front acc on T9.
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MR6W
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MRLM


Obviously I love DET and the more the better. But based on stat weights without counting SKS, the one with more crit is "better".

It's a 31 SKS difference. I couldn't get the exact SKS numbers for these two sets. I was one below on both, but this should serve as a good comparison of the two sets.
442 SKS = 2.40s GCD
411 SKS = 2.43s GCD

Which to me seems like a negligible amount of SkS.

So really it's just 189CRT/93DET vs 115CRT/124DET

So yeah just curious on what you guys think.

*edit* Andyman posted this one. http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MTXK Which is quite nice.

Here's another option for 515 accuracy: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MTXK

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Originally Posted by Ihm

Technically, you're wrong. There's different BiS sets depending on accuracy requirements.

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..which is technically still right... for THAT acc requirement

huh I didn't even consider that one! thanks.

Does anyone happen to know how much DPS we should be doing in T9? (w/Liberator?)
Pre-Megaflare I tend to average around >300, but after that it just plummets to <250.
I hold out my CDs for Binding Chain, and just deal with the mechanics normally, saving SD/DD for movement.
Should this be the way to tackle it, and should the DPS be that low?

Depend of your ilvl and of so many things like, do you get thermionic / thunder / the fire out often ? how do your group adjust for the super novas before hand so you can continue to dps on Nael, stuff like that. There's not really a lot of alternatives when you re constantly the target of RNjesus.

Just like in turn 7 in short, already happened that i had like 4 - 5 shriek in there in one attempt

Got High Allagan Spear & High Allagan Boots today, super stoked.

Anyway back on topic, with those 115 sets, any conclusions on the overall 'bis' set? I prefer the two options with 412 ss, the one I linked had slightly higher det, yours had higher crit.

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Originally Posted by Andyman

Got High Allagan Spear & High Allagan Boots today, super stoked.

Anyway back on topic, with those 115 sets, any conclusions on the overall 'bis' set? I prefer the two options with 412 ss, the one I linked had slightly higher det, yours had higher crit.

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I'm going to use your set as it seems to have a good balance of det and crt. Also according to stat weights it's better anyways. :)
Format: CRT+DET +(SkS)
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MTXK 204.147(277.483)
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MR6W 203.995(277.331)
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/MRLM 198.974(277.828)

I wouldn't recommend the last set at all since it's just about a .03s decrease in GCD.

Congrats on your spear/boots! :) Hoping I see it this week myself, but I never saw t5 spear so I'm not going to get my hopes up.

Side note: I do wish SkS builds were more sustainable. Because at 500 SkS currently I'm pushing some good numbers on T8. But I'm TP starved almost constantly. I have to tell the brd to give me TP song all the time.

What's the recommended iLevel for doing turns 3~5 as a DRG? Looking to get the i100 body piece this week, then start working on the arms / feet. I'd love to start doing turns 6+ to get some i110 items + sands of time, but I wasn't sure if I should wait till I get those pieces first before even attempting 3~5.

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Originally Posted by Rusubandenwa

What's the recommended iLevel for doing turns 3~5 as a DRG? Looking to get the i100 body piece this week, then start working on the arms / feet. I'd love to start doing turns 6+ to get some i110 items + sands of time, but I wasn't sure if I should wait till I get those pieces first before even attempting 3~5.

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What you're wearing right now is perfectly fine for the original Coil turns. I mean at the time i90 gear and i95 weapon was the best you could have prior Second Coil launching so while you might not have the best pieces for each slot your gear is more than appropriate and have more than the needed accuracy to actually do those turns.

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Originally Posted by Rusubandenwa

What's the recommended iLevel for doing turns 3~5 as a DRG? Looking to get the i100 body piece this week, then start working on the arms / feet. I'd love to start doing turns 6+ to get some i110 items + sands of time, but I wasn't sure if I should wait till I get those pieces first before even attempting 3~5.

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A decent player should be able to carry their weight in T5 in the ilvl80s.

Studying and perfecting mechanics makes a BIG difference, especially in T6+ because of the high amount of movement. Basically, if you beat T5, then you can pull enough weight through T6 and so on, since you'll keep gearing yourself as you go. I believe the average ilvl of the first T9 clear was 96.

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Originally Posted by JetBrooks

A decent player should be able to carry their weight in T5 in the ilvl80s.

Studying and perfecting mechanics makes a BIG difference, especially in T6+ because of the high amount of movement. Basically, if you beat T5, then you can pull enough weight through T6 and so on, since you'll keep gearing yourself as you go. I believe the average ilvl of the first T9 clear was 96.

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I figured as much. Better armor seems like it will allow you to have a larger margin of forgiveness when getting used to the mechanics of each fight (and after watching guides for T5 and 6, there appear to be many of them), but knowing what you're doing >>>>> what you're wearing.

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Originally Posted by Rusubandenwa

I figured as much. Better armor seems like it will allow you to have a larger margin of forgiveness when getting used to the mechanics of each fight (and after watching guides for T5 and 6, there appear to be many of them), but knowing what you're doing >>>>> what you're wearing.

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Yeah man, for those of us who are not pushing for world firsts, the information is out there from the dudes who do the big boy work. Guide videos are okay, but not quite enough for working to perfect your playing. At the very least watch a guide video and at least a couple videos from the perspective of your job. I started on T7 this week and am honestly having a pretty easy time after watching different videos for about 90mins. Studying saves you years in effort XD