Do you think bard desired a nerfing soon.

As a healer, I like the posts people have put up about other DPS classes (Drg, Mnk, BLM) doing just fine compared to Bard. I find that interesting, makes me think it is more the player than the class.

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one with the easiest

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yes, try miss a silence and bam pazalysed.

Not mention that bard hp is more squishy while other can have 3.5k hp with AF1, bard need 4/6 DL pieces to survive bomb

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Originally Posted by BrodyAlgana

As a healer, I like the posts people have put up about other DPS classes (Drg, Mnk, BLM) doing just fine compared to Bard. I find that interesting, makes me think it is more the player than the class.

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At least in monk case, the classes damage is fine, when it can maintain GLx3, which simply isn't always possible. Bosses disappear for 10 seconds, fly across rooms, then your archer rips agro and it goes all the way back to the other side etc etc and since melee can't hit a moving target due to the horrible netcode for ffxiv...yea. Monk dps is pro when the game doesn't hold it back (which is rare).

sounds like the actual problem is the fact you cant hit a moving target not that bards are OP. 250 posts later and an actual problem is identified. beacuse the number of posts from other DPS calsses that complain about bards are all comming from a handfull of people, granted that handfull cant let it go and will drive this to the end of the earth.

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Originally Posted by BrodyAlgana

Maybe it is possible Square intended and thought people would use songs more (so that 20% loss in damage would be more noticeable). If a song was up 80% of the time, figure in 20% loss to those numbers everyone is talking about and the dps would be closer. What they really need to do is completely restructure it, ive decided. And have a DPS Archer - call it Ranger or something, and a support Bard - two advanced classes not just one. Have the Ranger do DPS on par with other DPS, and while the bard can still do DPS some, can have one buff song and one debuff song on mobs at the same time...

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This is what I think the best solution
Tune the Bard to be more supportive role and give Archer a pure DPS job as the new 2nd class

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

This is what I think the best solution
Tune the Bard to be more supportive role and give Archer a pure DPS job as the new 2nd class

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you cant change a DPS class to a SUPPORT class. the duty finder does not support having a dedicated support class. this "solution" would only hurt the game and make the bard class far from being useable as a DPS class. this is also why 99.99% of the people posting in here could and should NEVER be a gamge designer.

Hard to believe that this argument is on top of the "DPS roles" threads. Amazing...clearly it's either because bards is the top of the line class or..everybody is complaining about the bard class being OP or more higher desiring than melees endgame? Well whatever it is, I'll go ahead and finally solve this problem lol. Remove the ballad skills, remove the class name "bard", leave the class name "archer" or call it "ranger". There! Now if SE wants to add a new class, they can add the Bard class ^.^; think and think hard people and please be honest.. that when doing prea/CM/AK runs, the whole point is clearing the run a.f.a.p. We all know, a bard using ballad does not make the run faster lol. Majority of the times, in this game, bards class seems to be wanted for a different role.. not because they are a bard. Bard and archer combined is such a bad idea SE please go back to old fashion and separate archer and bard class. Thank you!

I havent played a BRD yet, but from what ppl are saying, if their dps is as good as a pure DPS class like DRG/MNK but they also have utility through songs, it makes me wonder why dont we make a full BRD dps grp? seems a bit broken to me.

A BRD is suppose to be a support class, not top tier dps.

WELL SAID chumsy! Now people won't have to read my long paragraph. I'm such a newb XD

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

Welcome to MMO dude, forum is not used to promote product but accept customer feedback(most are complain). If you say hey I don't think bard is op then you are welcome to write your factors here, other wise you are toxic to the community. good is good, not good is not good, we can't blind our eye. So far most people agree bard is op.(over powerful and over popular)

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Must be a generational thing. Forums I frequented 10 years ago were exponentially more constructive than they are now. Contemporary online gaming communities have changed a lot, and not for the better. It seems there aren't many people within the realm of online discussions who can disagree with other people without insulting them or committing fallacies.

They should pull support skills from bard and give them to war as battle cry.which make more sense.
War can't mt in end game content. They real need some help for pve, they may op in pvp. Monk and dragoon also need some good support skills to change their life in group.

ill have bard monk pally warrior blackmage all lvl 50
all can i say bard should be nerfed coz of mobility and monks and blm should be buffed.
bard = support class not dps.

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Originally Posted by neoreturn

They should pull support skills from bard and give them to war as battle cry.which make more sense.
War can't mt in end game content. They real need some help for pve, they may op in pvp. Monk and dragoon also need some good support skills to change their life in group.

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What can't warriors tank? We have used the 1 paladin 1 warrior setup on every encounter up to turn 4 (on last phase of 4).

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

What can't warriors tank? We have used the 1 paladin 1 warrior setup on every encounter up to turn 4 (on last phase of 4).

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ofc they can tank "but" need a lot more effort and hard to heal so why healers want a warr if u have a another pally in urs pt ?

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Originally Posted by Xal

ill have bard monk pally warrior blackmage all lvl 50
all can i say bard should be nerfed coz of mobility and monks and blm should be buffed.
bard = support class not dps.

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/3988324/

Yup...precious tears.

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Originally Posted by Xal

ofc they can tank "but" need a lot more effort and hard to heal so why healers want a warr if u have a another pally in urs pt ?

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Frankly I don't see our warrior taking that much more damage than our paladin; our healers concluded the same.

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Originally Posted by Xal

ill have bard monk pally warrior blackmage all lvl 50
all can i say bard should be nerfed coz of mobility and monks and blm should be buffed.
bard = support class not dps.

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there is no support class for the 1000th time.... this is something that CANT happen. so why even think about it.
and if bards had no dps and 4 songs they would be the WORST class in the game..... our songs are not that great as it is anyway to concider us having too much utlity. i would LOVE to play bard if it was an indepth support class but its not its DPS with party favors.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

Frankly I don't see our warrior taking that much more damage than our paladin; our healers concluded the same.

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Pal and War will laugh when you say so, good to you is not many tank come to read DPS topic. But you can go tank forum to take a look.

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Originally Posted by fauxpas

there is no support class for the 1000th time.... this is something that CANT happen. so why even think about it.
and if bards had no dps and 4 songs they would be the WORST class in the game..... our songs are not that great as it is anyway to concider us having too much utlity. i would LOVE to play bard if it was an indepth support class but its not its DPS with party favors.

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our song are not great ?? lol foe req? not great ? mage ballads not great too with battlesong ? cmon just accept it bards are op atm and ill have bard too i know what im sayin

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Originally Posted by Kroktar

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/3988324/

Yup...precious tears.

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check now u little kid : )

before i say ill have 50 war monk pally blackmage bard so im sayin again bard dps should be nerfed.
atm its op.

I dont think it's DPS is op, but after playing with a couple other classes I feel like Bards can do so much and have so many tools in the box while other classes are very 1 dimensional. I'm new to MMO's but in fighting games the toolbox characters always tend to be execution heavy and lend itself to specialist bringing out their potential while the one dimensional characters are very powerful and somewhat easier. However Bards are particularly easy to play, which is puzzling. They should require more skill to play than a Monk for what they can accomplish imo of course.

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Originally Posted by Xal

before i say ill have 50 war monk pally blackmage bard so im sayin again bard dps should be nerfed.
atm its op.

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What endgame experience do you have to conclude this statement? Do you have numbers to support your claim? Are you suggesting that Bard DPS is overpowered or that Bard DPS on top of their utility is overpowered?

Bards don't have the best dps but they're certainly up there. I think the problem is Dragoon and Monk need to be buffed. If you're up close then you're at more risk and should be able to do a lot more damage.

The problem isn't just Bard, it's range entirely. All range classes have a huge advantage over melee and melee barely does more damage (does less damage when constantly having to avoid attacks) which doesn't make up for their disadvantage of close combat. Square needs to make melee better.

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

What endgame experience do you have to conclude this statement? Do you have numbers to support your claim? Are you suggesting that Bard DPS is overpowered or that Bard DPS on top of their utility is overpowered?

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bc2 atm why ?

if anyone dont believe me i can post my pally too btw parsel dont count dots so pls dont tell me bard dps is low ect.

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Originally Posted by Xal

if anyone dont believe me i can post my pally too btw parsel dont count dots so pls dont tell me bard dps is low ect.

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Never said Bard DPS was low, but from my experience, it's on par if a bit lower than the rest of the melee. For my own personal anecdotal evidence since we're on that subject, as my FC gears up with 5 groups clearing turns 1-4 on a weekly basis, we're seeing Bard DPS slowing their scaling and seeing Dragoon and Monk scale higher. It's kind of worrisome to be honest with you, if Bard doesn't scale as well, they're going to fall behind pretty fast when the next BC instance is released with higher gear levels. I think it's because for one, the base damage on their +1 relic weapon is not nearly as high as on other DPS. Their highest potency attack is 150. Until you get Misery's End then it's 190. Every other DPS has access to weaponskills that are higher potency. So the higher gear levels will yield better and better DPS numbers on other DPS.

The only thing I agree with is that Bard utility is way too much, but if what I'm seeing is true, then I understand why this is so.

I'm confused as to why they made they made the easiest, most mobile, attack while moving, no positioning, range, support class the best DPS. Wtf is with SE's logic?

I really want them balance the classes soon, I am ALWAYS last choice when there is a BLM or Bard in chat.
I doubt they'll ever try to balance the classes any time soon though.

From what i've seen, its usually Brd in a team constantly pulling Agro off the tank, causing wipes and death.

They have way too much damage compared to mnk and dgn and the only thing i seem to like about Brd is the Mana regen, which most never use as it gives them a damage reduction, then wonder why they are getting killed when i'm not healing them due to mana shortages..

They also seem to stand miles away from the team and wonder why they get no heals.

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Originally Posted by DanteMog

From what i've seen, its usually Brd in a team constantly pulling Agro off the tank, causing wipes and death.

They have way too much damage compared to mnk and dgn and the only thing i seem to like about Brd is the Mana regen, which most never use as it gives them a damage reduction, then wonder why they are getting killed when i'm not healing them due to mana shortages..

They also seem to stand miles away from the team and wonder why they get no heals.

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A major reason for that threat is they never stop DPSing. When everyone else... the tank included is running/doing nothing the bard is still pounding away. Its fun to because they will yell at tanks for not hold onto things.

Well that is the players problem not the class, the last 10 runs of AK I've done it's been the tank telling sum/blm that they need quelling strikes. While I patiently wait for him to get enmity then attack accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

Never said Bard DPS was low, but from my experience, it's on par if a bit lower than the rest of the melee. For my own personal anecdotal evidence since we're on that subject, as my FC gears up with 5 groups clearing turns 1-4 on a weekly basis, we're seeing Bard DPS slowing their scaling and seeing Dragoon and Monk scale higher. It's kind of worrisome to be honest with you, if Bard doesn't scale as well, they're going to fall behind pretty fast when the next BC instance is released with higher gear levels. I think it's because for one, the base damage on their +1 relic weapon is not nearly as high as on other DPS. Their highest potency attack is 150. Until you get Misery's End then it's 190.

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Same but people still dont see this

Unfortunately anecdotal evidence when it comes to DPS is not evidence at all. The variance from player to player is far too great for any single person to experience enough to form a statistically significant database. And even if you did manage it you need to write down the results because memory is incredibly unreliable. But really it's not even the issue, bard doesn't have to be the highest parsing dps to be op as a class.

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Originally Posted by traja

Unfortunately anecdotal evidence when it comes to DPS is not evidence at all. The variance from player to player is far too great for any single person to experience enough to form a statistically significant database. And even if you did manage it you need to write down the results because memory is incredibly unreliable. But really it's not even the issue, bard doesn't have to be the highest parsing dps to be op as a class.

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it is a fact...People its getting more geared...relic+1/allagan/af2 and the numbers are changing on parser.

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Originally Posted by Kroktar

it is a fact...People its getting more geared...relic+1/allagan/af2 and the numbers are changing on parser.

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It could very well be and it wouldn't surprise me in the least. But I don't know if it is and neither do you unless you have a source that is more than your personal parses. Now if you really do have more substantial statistics available then please provide them. After that I will agree that it is very likely to be true.

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Originally Posted by Xal

ill have bard monk pally warrior blackmage all lvl 50
all can i say bard should be nerfed coz of mobility and monks and blm should be buffed.
bard = support class not dps.

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I understand that bards are OP for the mobility, but you know how we are clasified in Duty finder? ... Yes as a DPS class, here is not a support class onle Tank/Healer/Dps

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Originally Posted by Kroktar

Same but people still dont see this

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Most people don't see this because they are still playing intro-game bard. Bards hit their peak fast compared to the other classes, and then their growth slows down as other classes accumulate their gear.

(By no way am I saying bard dps is bad. Bard dps is great, but other classes can match or beat it too.)

However, the plus side is our support spells. Using Foe Requiem effectiviely can turn Summoner, Blackmage, Whitemage, and Scholar into beasts. (Essentially increasing all their spell damage by +(15%-30%) (battle shout+Foe Requiem).

I've been testing Foe Requiem with all the casters and it has a significant effect on their spells. The tool tip on Foe Requiem is wrong and it still does boost non-elemental [un-aspected] spells (couple spells excluded). The downside is, Bard spells and other melee spells that say they have elemental damage are not effected by Foe Requiem.

There was a thread on here the other day that had more results that other players have done and results were very similar.

In short, late game we can see bards support role really shine when we start buffing our geared mages to blow up targets.

Requiem does not work for SMN/SCH. This has been tested already.

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Originally Posted by Thotor

Requiem does not work for SMN/SCH. This has been tested already.

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I thought so too until I ran a few tests myself. Used Scholar, Summoner, and Blackmage. Had each of them use dots and spells by themselves. With Foe off, on, and Battle Shouted. Saw an increase on most spells for each class. It worked with Summoner and Scholar. The tool tip for requim says only elemental, but it's working differently. Maybe a bug?

Also, targets we used were: Target Dummies, AK Gargoyle, AK wall boss, and AK Final boss. We tried all three methods I stated above on each target.

Similar results from other players too.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...hanics-Testing

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Originally Posted by DanteMog

From what i've seen, its usually Brd in a team constantly pulling Agro off the tank, causing wipes and death.

They have way too much damage compared to mnk and dgn and the only thing i seem to like about Brd is the Mana regen, which most never use as it gives them a damage reduction, then wonder why they are getting killed when i'm not healing them due to mana shortages..

They also seem to stand miles away from the team and wonder why they get no heals.

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brd pulling agro is not because of the dps amount but how this game threat calculate. The first few hit that pull mob will grant a substantial amount of agro which is even on par with flash. You can try pull mob with stone then aero and see how tank cant get agro from you.

Except from Coil or Titan HM if you need mana to heal, you suck.