Why do people want solo play in an MMORPG?

For me personally I just like knowing a group of like-minded people are in the game with me, so if I do get bored or want to talk to some friends or party up I can do so, which is an extra layer of enjoyment. I also like having a personal experience with the game and being able to explore and try my skills and go through the story without having to rush through things for the other players who aren't as patient. I won't always have the best party or be able to find enough people to do what I want to do. Knowing there is still plenty to do as a solo player makes it easier to experience the game and study the lore.

I understand there are still challenges in an MMORPG that do and should require skilled parties to explore and complete, and things should be easier as a group, but those things should not be a wall that keeps the game from being enjoyed.

i hate solo in mmo's, fact even in shooters i don't even play the campaign part of COD, i jump right to the online play and never look back. it's all about playing with others for me. the way ffxiv is now has destroy my hope for it. 16man party grinds down to 8man grinds then to now solo crap quests. no thanks, i will quit as soon as i realize i hate the leveling system. it's what we do the majority of the time in between events and new content, it's not what you rush threw so that you can just log into the game twice a week and feel like your a gamer and not get the wife mad.

i'd rather not play mmo's at all then play ones that are built this way, and if i didn't have time for a good mmo, i just wouldn't play rather then try to trick myself into thinking calling a mmo modern makes it ok.

you can tell the majority of people don't like making parties, they afk and wait for invites. that is why they like solo, they can just do it themselves. you can blame elitists but you didn't have to party with them, why do you want to join a group with the best gears rather then a group with gear like your own? rushing threw the game and leveling rather then taking the time and stopping and gearing up isn't how a mmo should be. when i got to 50 on my samuri ..i stoped leveling for a week or two and then got a party going for the weapon ..forget it's name lol. speed bumps and things along the way, a year to hit max rank? hell yeah. that's a mmo. if you want to pay 15bucks for the same amount of content an offline throw away game has then ...i don't know what else to tell you other then you destroy what a mmo is about for your own needs or wants or changes in your own lifestyle.

sorry but this topic truly strikes a nerve with me, not a mmo since ffxi could i truly enjoy and it's bullshit. and don't tell me to go back to a 20year old game, it's not even the same game any more. it was changed for gameplay for casual/modern game play. i've said this b4 but ffxiv is my last mmo, but desided to lol check out everquest 3, but i have zero hope for it. then i'm done forever with mmo's. when i hear about a mmo that is like ffxi and other old school mmo's that don't feel like you can actually beat the dang thing then i'll come back. /end rant.

People refuse to pay $15/month for the same content as an offline solo game... it is why F2P is the way of the future. Because no mmo released in the last 5yrs is worth a sub, because they all have about 1/5th the content they need to be worthwhile.

Everything is rush rush to endgame to do 2 dungeons, then break for 3 months wait for content, do the 2 new dungeons and level 5 more levels, wait 3 more months... repeat. yea that is not worth paying for.

No one will pay for a game they are bored of, at least no normal person would.

yeah and at the same time we go threw like 5mmo's in the time we used to go threw 1 mmo. your still doing all that useless grinding.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

it is why F2P is the way of the future

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people keep saying this, F2P's keep failing (arguably faster and more frequently than sub-based games- which tend to last several extra months before going F2P and then dying out thereafter) and WoW keeps trucking along with 10 million subs.

weird!

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Originally Posted by fusional

people keep saying this, F2P's keep failing (arguably faster and more frequently than sub-based games- which tend to last several extra months before going F2P and then dying out thereafter) and WoW keeps trucking along with 10 million subs.

weird!

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Well, bad sub-based MMOs die extra months later because of the subcription money they get. That's the main reason why.

F2P MMOs can be a good or a bad thing. If the MMO charges extra like SWTOR (when it got F2P) to be able to equip certain gears and get unlimited number of raids per week, this is a bad thing. If you do like GW2 and sell paid cards allowing you to get extra golds (basically RMTing your own game), I think it's a good way to do things (if the better stuffs are untradable-drops).

The problem is that, generally, F2P MMOs are hiding the fact that you'll be unable to do certain events if you aren't paying for it. But, again, some thought of interesting ways to get money in without holding content back. Of course, those paying players will have an advantage but those players would have probably used RMTs to get their extra currency.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

why do you want to join a group with the best gears rather then a group with gear like your own? rushing threw the game and leveling rather then taking the time and stopping and gearing up isn't how a mmo should be. when i got to 50 on my samuri ..i stoped leveling for a week or two and then got a party going for the weapon ..forget it's name lol. speed bumps and things along the way, a year to hit max rank? hell yeah. that's a mmo. if you want to pay 15bucks for the same amount of content an offline throw away game has then ...i don't know what else to tell you other then you destroy what a mmo is about for your own needs or wants or changes in your own lifestyle.

sorry but this topic truly strikes a nerve with me, not a mmo since ffxi could i truly enjoy and it's bullshit. and don't tell me to go back to a 20year old game, it's not even the same game any more. it was changed for gameplay for casual/modern game play. i've said this b4 but ffxiv is my last mmo, but desided to lol check out everquest 3, but i have zero hope for it. then i'm done forever with mmo's. when i hear about a mmo that is like ffxi and other old school mmo's that don't feel like you can actually beat the dang thing then i'll come back. /end rant.

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None of this applies directly to solo play.

Blasting through levels doesnt have to be associated with solo play. Easy content, easy gear - doesnt have to be associated with solo play.

Blame the developers for that not the players.

Tell Yoshida, I like content that shows I earned it, regardless of source. Perhaps then you can feel assured that no one is hecking their bed for relics.

I kind of disagree about the concept of "equal balance" between solo and multiplayer play. There needs to be a "balance" sure, but one which befits a Massively Multiplayer game. That balance may be tipped more toward party play though rather than solo play.

Been posting a bit and now reading a bit of the posts on this thread, Why are some people hating so much on the fact that you can do quests in ff14 ARR>? What is the problem.... Yes quests will be solo for the most part so what, you can still play in groups just as you could in ff11. So they added some quests for people who live in the 21st century and like doing quests and being more involved in the game instead of sitting in a corner waiting around for a group or pulling mobs for 12 hours a day.

I really don't understand the game will still have the hard core party play, end game will be 8-24 man groups, leveling could be done either by solo questing, or party grinding, or running instances, or behest, levs, FATE, and most likely PVP and more! This game really does have it all, it does not focus on one aspect but ALL aspects regarding a great MMORPG.

What path you take is up to you, you can do anything in this game, there for this game will be great, no reason to point out something somebody does not like, because what they like is also in this game. And to top it off, we all know about 5% of what ARR will be like, 95% at this point is just guess work, so no point getting all wound up over nothing, Yoshi knows what he's doing and is working hard to make a wonder full MMORPG and putting stuff in the game for everybody.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

None of this applies directly to solo play.

Blasting through levels doesnt have to be associated with solo play. Easy content, easy gear - doesnt have to be associated with solo play.

Blame the developers for that not the players.

Tell Yoshida, I like content that shows I earned it, regardless of source. Perhaps then you can feel assured that no one is hecking their bed for relics.

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so your saying people loved tera? it was solo all the way but it took very long time to do and people hated it and it went f2p recently. you might say it's cause lack of content, that is always the excuse ...but a slow party grind in a good mmo like ffxi can be considered content.

most people associate there solo play with easy leveling, when some one says i want solo to max that usually automatically means hey i want easy fast leveling to max as well. and tera proves that cause all i hear is ...too much quest and grinding in that game to level to max.

also mmo's like ffxi had tons of solo content, so it isn't that you want stuff to do, it's that you want to solo rush threw to max. ffxi had 3-4classes that you can solo to max(the mistake here was not making them important to content/endgame), farming, tons of quests that were solo, side quests, solo NM's, other then large events 1-2times a day, you could be solo'ing all day long. if i'm wrong then go head and prove me wrong but i don't see it.

as for not knowing what the game will be like, if party play grinding was to be part of it still they would of already said so. it's safe to say from alpha and everything the devs hint at and tell us that this mmo will be solo. even party questing, sucks. we did that with leves and guess what everyone was bitching about how boring it was. so why they gave us even more of it and take away party grinds i don't know. i leveled in a static 5classes from 20-50 and i will never want to keep doing that again. it's boring even with a party.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

Easier said than done. I'm a very social person yet I seem to have terrible luck getting into a stable linkshell (one that doesnt disband and is active) or a linkshell that is interested in helping up its lower level members, mentors so to speak. i really hope to get involved much earlier in the lifespan of this game than other MMO's but usualy by the time i come to the party everyone already has their cliques. Just like real life, MMO's get into their comfort zone of people then arent always willing to seek out new people. I know i love to help out random strangers if I am able to help because i remember what it was like to be in their shoes.

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Amen! /10char

There can, and should be, room for many play styles in an MMO. Options are a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

People refuse to pay $15/month for the same content as an offline solo game... it is why F2P is the way of the future. Because no mmo released in the last 5yrs is worth a sub, because they all have about 1/5th the content they need to be worthwhile.

Everything is rush rush to endgame to do 2 dungeons, then break for 3 months wait for content, do the 2 new dungeons and level 5 more levels, wait 3 more months... repeat. yea that is not worth paying for.

No one will pay for a game they are bored of, at least no normal person would.

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Before I go on, Just so you know I'm not attacking you but stating my point of view on this.

Doing Dynamis/sky over and over for 3-4 years justifies 15$ a month? FF11 had the same content for years, and I'm sorry but if people justify that it took them 1 year to get to 75 and thats why ff11 was such a great game, I don't know what to tell those people, my first job took me about 3-4 months to get to 75, and every other job after that took me 1 week tops in a solid static party.

Again I'm not attacking anybody just stating my point, ARR is not ff11, and sometimes change it good, that does not mean the game will be dry and boring, I thought the whole point of ARR was to make the game better, more involved, more alive, more things to do, and so far it seems it will do just that.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

There can, and should be, room for many play styles in an MMO. Options are a good thing.

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i agree and disagree. the best way is the way anyone will use. if party play is the best then even the solo'ists at heart will jump in parties. doing stuff for the fun of it or whatever is False, only very few people actually would do that.

just like tera where they had party quests in between tons of solo quests, no one seemed to party. i played when it just came out and shouting for people or even asking in guild i couldn't find people to duo or trio with as it was fastest way to level. i would run threw zones solo'ing as i shouted ..watching almost everyone else solo'ing. then the big quests came and no one around to do them with, so you just skip them and hope maybe someone will shout and do it later but almost never happens.

choices need to be forced on people usually, force party or they won't. forced solo or they won't. having things that are for solo only yes, having stuff that is for party only then yes. that works cause you have to party in a dungeon, so that is what you do, if you could solo them too as a choice then you know what they would all solo it. just like leveling up.

so play style there are room for them yeah, separate servers maybe. but other then that, they are all different games, a game with my type of game style is totally different then other peoples stye. it's a nice thought to have both in same servers and game but one gets pushed to the side. that is like paying 10bucks for an item in a cash shop and then me taking 3months to get mine in game threw 100hours of gameplay.... it doesn't work.

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Originally Posted by AdorraEloom

Before I go on, Just so you know I'm not attacking you but stating my point of view on this.

Doing Dynamis/sky over and over for 3-4 years justifies 15$ a month? FF11 had the same content for years, and I'm sorry but if people justify that it took them 1 year to get to 75 and thats why ff11 was such a great game, I don't know what to tell those people, my first job took me about 3-4 months to get to 75, and every other job after that took me 1 week tops in a solid static party.

Again I'm not attacking anybody just stating my point, ARR is not ff11, and sometimes change it good, that does not mean the game will be dry and boring, I thought the whole point of ARR was to make the game better, more involved, more alive, more things to do, and so far it seems it will do just that.

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/yay :D

lol

I'm not all the way to ADD but close enough that even hearing someone say "run the same dungeon for a year" makes me sleepy.

I think you can extend the life time of a dungeon through new modes and branching paths / revisits at higher levels and such but.. "the same dungeon" for a year..? /sleep

Although in ARR I think Yoshida is going to encourage lockouts through limited tokens per week and such so that extends dungeon life time (because you arent running it over like a zombie).

when you say run the same dungeon for a year like dynamisis, you mean run all 3 city and 2 snowlands? learning it all without messing up and then eventually being able to do it quickly? it probably took that year less you just jumped right into a good linkshell and followed around. when it first came out we would have 64men wiping and it was great. and even near the end i'd get into shells that couldn't handle snowlands and just did city runs for a year. i don't see that as boring in any way. yes dynamisis was long as hell and after 4years of it, it got boring, but then we had the other ones that came out and were entertaining and new endgame content that kept coming out. so really you just run threw it if wanted ...didn't have to for sure other then 1 of your classes. i had everything for classes and didn't need to do it all that time. i kept on doing it for all 8classes i leveled, it wasn't necessary.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

when you say run the same dungeon for a year like dynamisis, you mean run all 3 city and 2 snowlands? learning it all without messing up and then eventually being able to do it quickly? it probably took that year less you just jumped right into a good linkshell and followed around. when it first came out we would have 64men wiping and it was great. and even near the end i'd get into shells that couldn't handle snowlands and just did city runs for a year. i don't see that as boring in any way. yes dynamisis was long as hell and after 4years of it, it got boring, but then we had the other ones that came out and were entertaining and new endgame content that kept coming out. so really you just run threw it if wanted ...didn't have to for sure other then 1 of your classes. i had everything for classes and didn't need to do it all that time.

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3 + 2 = 5 dungeons, != 1 dungeon

:P

I like change and cycle. If the dev could introduce hard to get gear and then connect it over multiple dungeons and then update those dungeons with branching paths or other changes then I could see it lasting longer. IMO FFXI party play put me to sleep though so I just stopped because of that. (Love the environment / world but the "gameplay" style knocked me out)

I like a lot of WoW's dungeons, my own character is pretty damn old and gimped but I get on my friends every now and then and its pretty fun / intense. (Because he already has a guild group it doesnt matter I'm not as spot on lol)

Edit: still have to be careful stagnating content and gear

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

when you say run the same dungeon for a year like dynamisis, you mean run all 3 city and 2 snowlands? learning it all without messing up and then eventually being able to do it quickly? it probably took that year less you just jumped right into a good linkshell and followed around. when it first came out we would have 64men wiping and it was great. and even near the end i'd get into shells that couldn't handle snowlands and just did city runs for a year. i don't see that as boring in any way. yes dynamisis was long as hell and after 4years of it, it got boring, but then we had the other ones that came out and were entertaining and new endgame content that kept coming out. so really you just run threw it if wanted ...didn't have to for sure other then 1 of your classes. i had everything for classes and didn't need to do it all that time.

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It took us some time to learn them, the three cities took us a few weeks of attempts before we got it down, the snow area's were a bit harder at first, prolly took double the time to learn as a city. For the first year we would do it with like 40+ people or something, but after a year and a half many people stopped showing up and we would do it with like 20, had no problem at that point as everyone knew the drill, but after 2-3 years Dynamis was easy and boring, half the people would rotate going afk through the run as it was beyond boring. When half a raid goes AFK for more than 20 minutes at a time, indicates that the content is dead and not interesting.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

i agree and disagree. the best way is the way anyone will use. if party play is the best then even the solo'ists at heart will jump in parties. doing stuff for the fun of it or whatever is False, only very few people actually would do that.

just like tera where they had party quests in between tons of solo quests, no one seemed to party. i played when it just came out and shouting for people or even asking in guild i couldn't find people to duo or trio with as it was fastest way to level. i would run threw zones solo'ing as i shouted ..watching almost everyone else solo'ing. then the big quests came and no one around to do them with, so you just skip them and hope maybe someone will shout and do it later but almost never happens.

choices need to be forced on people usually, force party or they won't. forced solo or they won't. having things that are for solo only yes, having stuff that is for party only then yes. that works cause you have to party in a dungeon, so that is what you do, if you could solo them too as a choice then you know what they would all solo it. just like leveling up.

so play style there are room for them yeah, separate servers maybe. but other then that, they are all different games, a game with my type of game style is totally different then other peoples stye. it's a nice thought to have both in same servers and game but one gets pushed to the side. that is like paying 10bucks for an item in a cash shop and then me taking 3months to get mine in game threw 100hours of gameplay.... it doesn't work.

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So much this. If soloing is viable parties will become less common. If soloing is about the same as parties speed wise, parties will be rare. Individuals have preferences. Communities will do what is easiest.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

i agree and disagree. the best way is the way anyone will use. if party play is the best then even the solo'ists at heart will jump in parties. doing stuff for the fun of it or whatever is False, only very few people actually would do that.

just like tera where they had party quests in between tons of solo quests, no one seemed to party. i played when it just came out and shouting for people or even asking in guild i couldn't find people to duo or trio with as it was fastest way to level. i would run threw zones solo'ing as i shouted ..watching almost everyone else solo'ing. then the big quests came and no one around to do them with, so you just skip them and hope maybe someone will shout and do it later but almost never happens.

choices need to be forced on people usually, force party or they won't. forced solo or they won't. having things that are for solo only yes, having stuff that is for party only then yes. that works cause you have to party in a dungeon, so that is what you do, if you could solo them too as a choice then you know what they would all solo it. just like leveling up.

so play style there are room for them yeah, separate servers maybe. but other then that, they are all different games, a game with my type of game style is totally different then other peoples stye. it's a nice thought to have both in same servers and game but one gets pushed to the side. that is like paying 10bucks for an item in a cash shop and then me taking 3months to get mine in game threw 100hours of gameplay.... it doesn't work.

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Based on your bolded statment, you get what I mean, I think. They don't have to allow everything to be solo'd to make room for people who like, or even prefer, to solo.

I can't imagine how any MMO would work if people could just solo level appropriate raid content if they just decided to. I think that would be quite awful actually.

But the game can include many different kinds of content which will provide options and a change of pace now and then for both solo and group activities.

The existence of one need not threaten the existence of the other. They can co-exist.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I just don't get it, MMORPG stands for Massive Multiplayer Role Playing Game. Some people want the game to base around solo play, ( which was mostly 1.0 and at some points did get frustrating to just do everything by myself.)

Do they even know what an MMO is? This is just a little gripe that I been having everytime the subject arises.

Going to get bread now to make Sausage Sandwiches!

Example:



Source: http://www.facebook.com/FinalFantasyXIV?fref=ts

A little change in my stance but still needs Grouping:



There needs to be an equal balance of content for both solo and party.

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Why do people want to be alone in real life? I guess it differs person to person but some people find it fun to solo things that most people group up to accomplish. That is ONE of many reasons why I love FFXI but like I said that is just me.

yeah i dont get people who cry about grouping up, like the OP (and the genre) said this is a MMO..

i can understand players looking down on others and such cause of gear, i had that problem, i spent time on it.. got the gear i need, then i cant be left out because of that..

its not very hard being social ingame.. your sitting in your chair, theres a chat log.. just type (dont type nonsense though) if someone replys in a negative nature dont get butthurt , move on to the next person, theres gotta be 3 good players for every A-hole ingame, its not a big deal, and if you dont know anyone ingame, respond to shouts youll meet good peeps try to get in their LS, thats it

wish ppl who complain about grouping up would use their brains, its nice to have solo play in the game at some parts, but the bigger picture should always be about Group play.

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Originally Posted by Kaizuko_Hakupac

yeah i dont get people who cry about grouping up, like the OP (and the genre) said this is a MMO..

i can understand players looking down on others and such cause of gear, i had that problem, i spent time on it.. got the gear i need, then i cant be left out because of that..

its not very hard being social ingame.. your sitting in your chair, theres a chat log.. just type (dont type nonsense though) if someone replys in a negative nature dont get butthurt , move on to the next person, theres gotta be 3 good players for every A-hole ingame, its not a big deal, and if you dont know anyone ingame, respond to shouts youll meet good peeps try to get in their LS, thats it

wish ppl who complain about grouping up would use their brains, its nice to have solo play in the game at some parts, but the bigger picture should always be about Group play.

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This is not about people who complain about grouping why don't you use your brain.

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Originally Posted by Fadedhost

This is not about people who complain about grouping why don't you use your brain.

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"I just don't get it, MMORPG stands for Massive Multiplayer Role Playing Game. Some people want the game to base around solo play"

are you an idiot? or did i hurt your feelings? anyway thats the line OP wrote.. thats what im talking about..

so use your brain before you tell me to use my brain.. before i told others to use their brains, hah! no but yeah.

dont get so butthurt next time jeez, the thread dosent revolve around your opinions, and even i went off topic which i dont think i did, there ARE people actually like the ones i talked about, can you deny that?

whose this guy..

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Originally Posted by Gramul

It does seem to totally defeat the purpose.
I mean if you want something focused on solo but allows for online multilayer, try Monster Hunter or Borderlands. The MMO genre seems wasted on solo focus.

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This assumes progression beyond leveling would be solo-focused, which any real moderate will tell you is a bad idea. I don't think anyone is asking for solo raids. Leveling should be flexible enough that you can reasonably progress while soloing, with partying running dungeons putting you ahead of the rest.

Story-relevant stuff should be for the most part solo. It builds up your character as someone who can hold their own in the world, gives the devs and animators the opportunity to make you look heroic and cool, and prevents the cockblocks we saw in 1.0. Always Bet on Black should not have been this arduous thing for BLMs. Then there was my foray with Parley on High Ground, where it took me forever to get a group for.

My brother likes to play MMOs solo mostly, not very social and or doesn't like to rely on others for anything worthwhile and I think thats 100% fine. Groups can suck sometimes, esp when you get a jerk or two. Get help when you want/need, solo the rest, problem solved :P

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Originally Posted by Yosho

My brother likes to play MMOs solo mostly, not very social and or doesn't like to rely on others for anything worthwhile and I think thats 100% fine. Groups can suck sometimes, esp when you get a jerk or two. Get help when you want/need, solo the rest, problem solved :P

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problem solved for you, mmo's completely destroyed for others. yaaay.

My personal experience is that in the MMOs that forced grouping, the community was better, but that might also be because most of the MMOs that forced grouping were niche market games pre-WoW, where having 100k subscribers was considered a lot ..

I like grouping, but it's not always possible to do so because of time constraints, or because you just get unlucky and not get invited or whatever other reason. In those cases it's nice to have solo options. I do (strongly) believe though, that not everything should be obtainable through solo play, or at the very least not easily obtainable.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

problem solved for you, mmo's completely destroyed for others. yaaay.

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"This lone stranger is farming beastman coins in Natalan by HIMSELF!? My 25-man dungeon run immersion is RUINED!!!"

I learned in my mmorpg life that you can feel more lonely in a party then when you play solo.

Party for me means, talking with each other, having fun, adventure together, most parties I've been in are just about leveling as quickly as possible, no time for chatting.

And when people talk they love to show how great they are with their awesome gear, or how many jobs they got.
I am playing for fun, and when someone is just proud to finally got something they worked hard for, I am happy for them, but when they just do it to show off, it annoys me a lot.

And then the greed, when I go in dungeons all party members may have the great loot, I don't care about the loot, if that makes them happy, well you may have it, I am there for fun, not for the loot. I seen a lot of parties brake up because of greed reasons.
I always feel joy inside me when I notice people in the party are happy for each other when 1 of them got a great piece or something. A good party is when everyone cheers for each other.

Actually only a few parties were really fun for me in the 14 years I have played mmorpgs, most of them were with people from linkshells/guilds. Only a few of them were with nice strangers.

I hope to see more social people in ARR, who play for fun, and don't take the game too serious.
People who enjoy to talk and to joke around.

Party play doesn't equal a social game to me, not anymore...
I am usually more social when I solo then when I am in a group.

Forced party play won't work for me, I only want to play with people who want to party.

I do know I will get tired of an mmorpg quickly when I solo most of the time, so I do need party play, to enjoy a mmorpg.
But I do believe solo should be possible.
Party must be a choice.

As a paying costumer in a MMORPG. I want to play on my time, not on anyone else time.

Imho, for SE to attract a lot of potential costumers within their fanbase, including those new to the franchise, and new to the genre of MMORPG like those playing on PS3, then it must have something for everyone. The game must be appealing to all audience. More people playing equals a larger community that is bound to interact with each other one way or the other. Its a win win situation.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

As a paying costumer in a MMORPG. I want to play on my time, not on anyone else time.

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As a paying customer, you're acquiring the whole package: the MMO and the RPG. The MMO is as important as the RPG and no HTML tagging will change that. If you didn't want an MMORPG you should have done a little research and avoided this game and others like it. There are a great many other games that are online, but not RPGs; games that are RPGs, but not online; and RPGs that have partial online elements.

You chose the one that was both online and an RPG. There are also a massive number of other players. By no coincidence, the content and systems of the game reflect that.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

The game must be appealing to all audience.

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Nothing should ever appeal to all audiences.

All Audiences is the holy grail of game design, yet every quest to find All Audiences has ended in disaster. I'm starting to think All Audiences doesn't exist. Perhaps it's better to create games that target distinct segments of the market instead of vainly pursuing All Audiences. Now, Some Audiences is real--I saw one just the other day. I've even come across a couple Niche Audienceses here and there.

The fact that it's an MMO does not mean you have to play with other people. It just means a lot of other people play it too.

Players make their decisions on how they want to play based on many things. Some people like to group for everything. Others like to group for only what's necessary. Others like grouping, but only with a specific group of people. The beauty of online gaming is the freedom to tackle content in whichever way you want.

A developer's role should be to provide content to all the different ways in which players choose to play the game. There's a high demand for solo, so there's plenty of solo content. But there's also a high demand for group, so there is plenty of that too.

I see no issue.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

If most of the game is solo ( by game design not by player choice there's a difference), the game will be like it was in 1.0 at the beginning.

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You mean it will have zero content so people will have to make up their own fun just like in Saga of Ryzom? (if you don't know what that is it's a good idea to look it up, it's educative on what could have happened to XIV 1.0)

No it will not, also I grouped easily in XIV 1.0 and I don't expect that to change in ARR. What I do completely expect from the game is something akin to modern XI where you can level solo if you want but you must group in order to finish story lines, do dungeons and all that jazz.

There's no problem in adding solo or puzzle dungeons too but that must come after the group stuff is in and balanced.

I honestly do not fear much for this game because Yoshi knows very well who the solo/casual crowd is and what they like and who the groupers/hardcores are and what they in turn like.

It's going to be okayyy. :D Also the real issue was never grouping it's always about TIME management. Make it so you can get a group in a good amount of time and you encourage people to participate.

I only have so much time on my hands, like in the last XIV G+ chat, I end up leaving because over one hour and I have to go make dinner or help my daughter with homework or something. Rarely do I get 3 hours of uninterrupted time to myself. That's the problem. ;)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

3 + 2 = 5 dungeons, != 1 dungeon

:P

I like change and cycle. If the dev could introduce hard to get gear and then connect it over multiple dungeons and then update those dungeons with branching paths or other changes then I could see it lasting longer. IMO FFXI party play put me to sleep though so I just stopped because of that. (Love the environment / world but the "gameplay" style knocked me out)

I like a lot of WoW's dungeons, my own character is pretty damn old and gimped but I get on my friends every now and then and its pretty fun / intense. (Because he already has a guild group it doesnt matter I'm not as spot on lol)

Edit: still have to be careful stagnating content and gear

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This was my biggest complaint and the reason i ended up quitting FFXI. I was falling asleep. Waiting for parties to level up, waiting for parties for missions, running to get to a party, waiting for an airship (then nodding off and missing it), standing in one spot with a party spamming my 1 or 2 moves, etc. i realized that if I'm struggling to stay awake then I need to play something a little more active.

i like the MMO genre, I want to get more involved. I'm willing to admit that FFXI was my first MMO and i didnt understand the dynamics of it at the time, wasnt involved in linkshells as much as i should have been, and i didnt understand the time sinks. Then i played WoW and couldnt get into a guild cause no one wanted a noob. That in its self was frustrating because i'm not completely retarded (just mostly retarded), I just didn't have the experience in this style of game, didnt know the lingo, didnt understand the dynamics of party play, or even really know where to start. How am I to get this noob stink off of me if no one is willing to help me grow? I'm pretty sure we were all "noob" at one point.

That whole thing frustrates me, its like walking up to a 1 year old, just learning to walk, watch him fall, then laugh at him, call him a noob, and refuse to teach it how to walk. Who knows, with a little effort on someones part to help teach that kid he could be the next tri-athalon winner.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

stuff

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I don't think you see the point I'm trying to make. Also I do not agree with your second statement because I don't see the necessary proof that can support it.

Therefore, Final Fantasy as a franchise is not a niche. Ex: FFXIII sold over 6 million. That is potential costumers/fans SE is possibly denying if they go niche. I don't think your idea is a good business plan.

Even thought I strongly prefer group play, there are many situations where solo play will be nice.
1) When I would log in and no one on my f-list would be on.
If I have a few hours, it might be ok to look for a group. If I don't have much time, something that I can solo for a bit would be nice.
2) Bad hair day, just don't feel like grouping.
3) On call day, jobs...babies...wives...Have a few hours but can be called away anytime. Being married with kids add a lot of limitations.

Now regarding a balance between solo and group:
1) If solo is equally efficient as a group, few people would group because it is troublesome to look for or start a group. Groups should therefore give additional bonuses or solo should get some kind of penalty. I do not mind areas that are solely marked as group play though.

2) If few people group up, the fundamental premise of a MMO breaks down, which is the massively portion. Basically, "group play" should build up the community and camaraderie between players. At the end of the day, it is not the game itself that keeps players in, but rather peer pressure from those you meet in the game.
-> This is why in my opinion many recent MMOs have been failing and why FFXI still had a loyal following after so long. I myself left FFXI because the last few in my old LS quit.

"Balance" is hence tricky. You don't want a group-inclined situation where players get discouraged before they can find a LS where they belong. You also can't have a solo-inclined situation where the community never gets built.

One thing is for certain though, looking for a group must not be hard regardless of what job you have. Ideally, all jobs/classes must be useful in any situation.
-> For example, game balance wise, give melee a form of magical damage, which should be much weaker than a mage's but still relevant. Likewise, mages should be able to do physical damage, weaker than melee but again still relevant. Or better yet, allow mages to use en-spells to convert melee physical to magical damage.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

problem solved for you, mmo's completely destroyed for others. yaaay.

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How are they destroyed for others? "Others" will be doing the harder content in groups, end game, primals, and so on, while the solo players will be doing the easier content. Problem solved I think.

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Originally Posted by Miliant

The fact that it's an MMO does not mean you have to play with other people. It just means a lot of other people play it too.

Players make their decisions on how they want to play based on many things. Some people like to group for everything. Others like to group for only what's necessary. Others like grouping, but only with a specific group of people. The beauty of online gaming is the freedom to tackle content in whichever way you want.

A developer's role should be to provide content to all the different ways in which players choose to play the game. There's a high demand for solo, so there's plenty of solo content. But there's also a high demand for group, so there is plenty of that too.

I see no issue.

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Yay :)

Somebody who understands that ARR is not 100% solo!

ARR is still a MMO and requires a lot of grouping to achieve higher end items and tackle the harder content. Like ifrit in 1.0, there was the normal mode where it was really easy (in ARR will be solo) so people could progress through the story, than there was hard mode for people who wanted to tackle him down and get a weapon. That is the idea Yoshi has planned in ARR, where the story will be solo, but if you want the good items than you still will need a group and have to do a hard version of the battles.

Some said well if the option to solo is there for main story why would anybody group up than, the answer is simple you will group up and do hard mode because you will want the good rewards.

I think this is the perfect system, as you are not taking away the "MMO" out of the game as people will still group up and do hard modes for the gear and challenge and achievements, but at the same time your not taking away the story from the people who don't have the time to group up and learn hard battles.

I don't get the concept that if one is playing MMORPG, that is should not be solo play, it is illogical to me.

We are all individuals, and we are all members of SOCIETY, if the above statement is true, then we cannot be individuals, because society requires....no demands collective effort, and society is bigger than mmorpg, once can argue that mmorpg exist within society. However, reality shows we dont always do things together, we still do things solo, such as jogging, listen to music...etc, individalism exist in society, even within communism it exists, so why is soloist deemed "bad" within MMORPG? to the point that people have gripes?

The point is, they are not mutually excusive, and there are value in both spectrums. Just like in society, it takes a collective effort to build a 80 story building, but not everything demands collective effort. You can meditate, you can read a book and learn something, you can train your body, and those are things that can be and are often done solo. Mmorpg is nothing but a smaller scale society. Like everything, moderation is key, catering to one side only is illogical.