Marriage feedback [inofficial Poll]

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Originally Posted by Rhix

If they close this thread, I WILL make another one until I'm banned. Close them because they're redundant, sure. But don't close these threads to silence the issue. The majority want SSM in the game and as I said earlier, there are games out there that (Rift, Cloud Nine, etc) have already implemented this and I have not seen any backlash.

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Don't feel that SE is trying to censor the issue or that they're against it. It's fairly obvious that they're liberal when it comes to social rights and has almost always been that way.

The last thread was closed because it was a pointless circular discussion from what I can see. At least this is a poll and the discussion thus far has been slightly less redundant.

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Originally Posted by Rhix

If they close this thread, I WILL make another one until I'm banned. Close them because they're redundant, sure. But don't close these threads to silence the issue. The majority want SSM in the game and as I said earlier, there are games out there that (Rift, Cloud Nine, etc) have already implemented this and I have no seen any backlash.

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I'd support those threads. They didn't close the other topic because there were heated arguments or it got too off-topic. They closed it because "there are no new opinions". I thnk 90% of the topics on this forum fall into that category lol.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

I'd support those threads. They didn't close the other topic because there were heated arguments or it got too off-topic. They closed it because "there are no new opinions". I thnk 90% of the topics on this forum fall into that category lol.

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You bring up a good point and one that I'd like to point out. Someone had the brilliant (not being sarcastic) idea of not calling it marriage and I think that should be seriously considered.

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Originally Posted by Kallivis

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Originally Posted by Fylion

This is a thread about IN-GAME issues, so try to keep that frame of reference.

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Ok.

Homosexuality and bisexuality seems almost more common in the world of Eorzea than heterosexuality.

Guess the discussion is over. Same-sex marriage is fine.

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Sorry, I was actually referring to conversations -like- the exchange between Keisuna and Huginn here. (Not that I don't think this is a valid topic, just that these kinds of exchanges are likely to derail the subject if pursued too far.) Probably should have made two posts, as the rest of that one actually violates that particular line. XD

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Originally Posted by Fylion

I'm not sure what SE's actual stance on these issues actually is, and personally, for me to continue enjoying the game I'd honestly rather not know. However, it seems that if they wish not to openly reveal their stance, or at least make it AS AMBIGUOUS as possible, the following would be a good way of doing it:

(TLDR;)
"Any two characters will be able to marry, regardless of gender, in order to reduce any real or perceived advantages players may have for choosing to play one gender over another."

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Originally Posted by Rhix

You bring up a good point and one that I'd like to point out. Someone had the brilliant (not being sarcastic) idea of not calling it marriage and I think that should be seriously considered.

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I completely agree with this. Even if they just call it a "Union" or something simple I'm fine with that.

countries have different laws.

Certain FFXIV Forum contest are blocked in some regions.
Blizzard have to remove all zombies, and undead in their Diablo games to release it in China.
FFXI Mog Bonanza had to stop due to changing global laws.

Personally, I prefer no in game marriage. lol. Its safer this way.


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In general, the people who disagree with same-sex marriage believe it is wrong because, at its core, it degrades the 'definition of marriage', which, according to their interpretation of many holy books, is supposed to be between a 'man and a woman'.

But... this is Eorzea, with different gods, and different rules. If you can play a game with 12 fictional gods and not get upset that it is degrading your idea of divinity (that there is one god and that god is not the twelve), I don't understand how marriage could be a bigger issue.

I agree with those saying that all 'marriage' should be referred to by a different term in this game. That would make all the difference as far as it being accepted... but, it should be an equal term for all, whether it is a same sex union or not. This term could be bonding, pairing, etc. It doesn't necessarily have to be about courtship, but about the pairing of two souls in Eorzea. If I remember correctly, in FFXI, following the ceremony, you were simply given a special ring with the other person's name on it. There were no real boons outside of that.

BUT... in this game, you have a last name, which raises a lot of questions/curiosities on my part. I doubt they'll let you change that in marriage, but it's something to consider.

For the record, I am all for same sex marriage. I just think they'll need to give marriage in general a different name for it to be sensitive to all cultures that play this game.

I am very much for same gender marriage in games that have marriage but I understand SE is a business and has to think about the bottom line, age restrictions on content. I think there is more to gain from adding a game to the list of lgbt friendly games on the market because as a customer I appreciate it and I consider this a plus when looking for new games to purchase.

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

Well my boyfriend plays a female character.. and so do I.. it would suck a lot if they chose no.....

I'm sure I'm not the only one in this type of situation.

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I feel you :) I only play male characters but I am female. My Husband plays male characters and he does not have a problem with being a same sex couple in-game.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

countries have different laws.

Certain FFXIV Forum contest are blocked in some regions.
Blizzard have to remove all zombies, and undead in their Diablo games to release it in China.
FFXI Mog Bonanza had to stop due to changing global laws.

Personally, I prefer no in game marriage. lol. Its safer this way.


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Doesn't matter because it is not a legal marriage anywhere. It's the same as me declaring myself married to someone, or even holding my own ceremony. It is in no way official or legal in any country. Thus, real world laws do not apply.

let the game launch first, after that they can and probably will add it.
I dont know how china views this topic but since ARR is comming out there, SE has to be careful .

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Originally Posted by GinTama

let the game launch first, after that they can and probably will add it.
I dont know how china views this topic but since ARR is comming out there, SE has to be careful .

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SE has already said China will have separate servers.

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Originally Posted by MStowastiqVahlshdeh

I feel you :) I only play male characters but I am female. My Husband plays male characters and he does not have a problem with being a same sex couple in-game.

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I've met so many women who play as male characters I honestly think female characters who are actual females are a minority. xD
But back to the topic at hand, I know of more people in our situation so if SE decides no on this issue and it offers benefits we're basically ruled out of these benefits for "cultural sensitivity" when the number of people actually offended are minuscule. Even if there are no benefits like shared storage or housing or anything for that matter it's still something that we miss out on because of the bond shared between couples which just isn't fair.

Well from what I can tell there are no comments on the thread on the JP side about same sex marriage but 14 ok with it none against it.

Let's be honest here, the player base isn't as broad as you're insinuating. We have EU players, Japanese players, North American players, and a small community of Spanish and Oceanic players.

Spain legalised same-sex marriage since July 3, 2005, I'm not aware of any western European country that has laws against same-sex attraction/marriage (they usually have 'Civil Unions'), and the same goes for Japan, USA (some states allow it), New Zealand and Australia.


They aren't censoring any valid points, but removing points that hold no value and were posted to just cause problems.

Here we go. Comparing SSM to marrying an animal. Please, tell me how my marriage with another man is the same as me marrying my dog.

This Eagle guy has 18 posts, most of which have been dedicated to trolling..

Yellow, the posts have been removed. (Awesome work forum mods)

Posting about it now will only get your posts deleted as well. Also, RL SSM, while I think is a good cause to fight for, has nothing to do with in-game marriage.

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Originally Posted by Yellow

This Eagle guy has 18 posts, most of which have been dedicated to trolling..

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What Eagle guy? I've never heard of him.

But yes, I think considering the other things they allow they might as well allow this. You can't please everybody, obviously, but considering when the vast majority around the world support it, it's a good idea to go with it.

Another point I'd like to make is that thinking about the bigger picture I can't see how there would be any harm done considering what's already in the game.

Take the middle east for example. I have quite a few friends from the middle east and I play with a few of them in XIV. The middle east generally has strong views against not only homosexuality but also drinking and gambling. Guess what's already in XIV? Drinking and gambling. But no harm done, people still play it, and it's not banned. Also, from what I know most of my friends there either personally support or "are not against" same-sex marriage.

The argument that it's more of a political issue is more understandable because SE wants to make business and not get banned from any particular region, but there are many things in the game that they could be banned for already, and it hasn't happened.

I understand its a sensitive topic, but I completely believe in equality. There shouldn't be any marriage offered in game if its going to shun some people out. furthermore, allowing same Sex marriage wouldn't even be new or agaisnt the video game industry norms. Skyrim, mass effect, dragon age, etc.. These games all allow for same sex relations. It adds depth to characters and to the game overall. I have yet to honestly meet gamers who are completely against same sex marriage, I'm sure they exist, but are few in comparison to the amount of people who either don't really feel insulted by it or simply don't mind it being implemented.

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Originally Posted by Nox

I understand its a sensitive topic, but I completely believe in equality. There shouldn't be any marriage offered in game if its going to shun some people out. furthermore, allowing same Sex marriage wouldn't even be new or agaisnt the video game industry norms. Skyrim, mass effect, dragon age, etc.. These games all allow for same sex relations. It adds depth to characters and to the game overall. I have yet to honestly meet gamers who are completely against same sex marriage, I'm sure they exist, but are few in comparison to the amount of people who either don't really feel insulted by it or simply don't mind it being implemented.

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As a gay gamer who had to sit around in XI watching my character be completely alone while my straight friends married one another, I agree with this. I certainly would have had a lot more fun if I was able to marry my male (straight, but awesome) friend like we both always wanted.

I've been thinking on this topic a lot, trying to find better ways to make this work for the entire community without having it crush anyone's toes so-to-speak.

This is my original post from Page#2:

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Originally Posted by Nix

I think they could dodge a lot of bullets if they didn't call it 'marriage' but tried a different name like bonding, handfasting, pairing etc then allowing the same sex union.

I'm not against same sex marriage at all, but it'd kinda shy away from the stigma of folks getting their underwear in a twist over marriage not being shown in a traditional (to them) light.

Personally I would love to see same sex unions, as one poster mentioned earlier; there are a lot of people who play characters that don't properly reflect their r/l gender, so to leave them out of something like this based on aesthetic choice wouldn't be cool.

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Reading through this thread gave me an idea, let's say we built on this and instead of it being a marriage in the sense that it's a partnership of two people in love, why not make it so it can be a pact between friends who are sworn to protect each other etc.

Square could advertize it as a Pact / Bonding / Pairing etc, but it would be up to the individual adventurer to define what that pact means, whether you are married to each other or whether you are best friends and so on but for everyone the ceremony would be the same - you would just swear a pact of allegiance to each other, or if it's player controlled then do as you will. Having a ring or amulet to show that you are bonded to another, with their name would be pretty neat too!

The cathedral could tie into this, having it as a place where you can swear your allegiance to each other before the twelve (and the respective priest)

I'm curious on what everyone's thoughts on this are?

For me I think it would be a great solution, I think it could appease those who are against SSM and those who are for since it's up to the individual player to define what their pact means to their bonded partner.

Have a great weekend guys, I'll keep my eyes open on here!

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Originally Posted by Nuinn

Oh my o_O;;; they're making it?! +18 :O

;P Just kidding, but that typo made me chuckle :)

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Lmao oh wow that was a horrible typo >_>

yah I say allow it.

I think most people these days are cool with SSM

how many threads do we need about this? i don't mind it and neither does the majority of the NA population that plays XIV, but gay marriage is taboo in many other parts of the world and if there's one thing i know about the LGBT community is you never stop until you get what you want. is this a big deal in regards to the success of XIV 2.0? no. if you're not going to play the game because they only allow same sex marriage then, well... you need to wake up and smell something because there are much more important things to worry about in 2.0 than this. this is selfish because you're not thinking about the other cultures that we share the game with.

the general idea of marriage being a hot topic for the release XIV is not only sad but a huge waste of SE's resources best used elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by ejiboo

how many threads do we need about this? i don't mind it and neither does the majority of the NA population that plays XIV, but gay marriage is taboo in many other parts of the world and if there's one thing i know about the LGBT community is you never stop until you get what you want. is this a big deal in regards to the success of XIV 2.0? no. if you're not going to play the game because they only allow same sex marriage then, well... you need to wake up and smell something because there are much more important things to worry about in 2.0 than this. this is selfish because you're not thinking about the other cultures that we share the game with.

the general idea of marriage being a hot topic for the release XIV is not only sad but a huge waste of SE's resources best used elsewhere.

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Please, tell me more about all the resources they spend on this.

Also, 2 threads isn't a lot and this one is a poll, the other was not constructive and it got locked.

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Originally Posted by ejiboo

one thing i know about the LGBT community is you never stop until you get what you want. .

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Damn those guys always fighting for equality

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Originally Posted by Arcell

I'd support those threads. They didn't close the other topic because there were heated arguments or it got too off-topic. They closed it because "there are no new opinions". I thnk 90% of the topics on this forum fall into that category lol.

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Kinda hard to have new opinions when things basically boil down to "For!" or "Against!"

Unless your last name is Romney and you can combine them together.

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Originally Posted by DubstepNinja

Damn guys always fighting for equality

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It's almost like they want to be treated equally or something, the NERVE!!!!

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Originally Posted by ejiboo

how many threads do we need about this? i don't mind it and neither does the majority of the NA population that plays XIV, but gay marriage is taboo in many other parts of the world and if there's one thing i know about the LGBT community is you never stop until you get what you want. is this a big deal in regards to the success of XIV 2.0? no. if you're not going to play the game because they only allow same sex marriage then, well... you need to wake up and smell something because there are much more important things to worry about in 2.0 than this. this is selfish because you're not thinking about the other cultures that we share the game with.

the general idea of marriage being a hot topic for the release XIV is not only sad but a huge waste of SE's resources best used elsewhere.

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I don't think anyone's really threatened to quit because of it. Most just feel strongly that marriage should be treated equally for all, that's pretty much it. If SSM isn't included in the game I'm sure most everyone will continue playing, it's just some will miss out on something that should be available to all.

You're right, there may be more "important" things to discuss but we've got all the time in the world to discuss them. Plus this is an issue that is fairly realistic to reach the dev team on. They already seem kind of on the fence based on Yoshida's answer. These threads are here to try to convince them to allow it.

He is got a valid point that making this decision might effect the company as a whole, Not everyone outside US is as open minded when it comes to this issue, it is still taboo to like majority of asian countries.

I am not against this idea but lets be real here, you are not really missing anything when they do not let you have SSM ingame.

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Originally Posted by ejiboo

how many threads do we need about this? i don't mind it and neither does the majority of the NA population that plays XIV, but gay marriage is taboo in many other parts of the world and if there's one thing i know about the LGBT community is you never stop until you get what you want. is this a big deal in regards to the success of XIV 2.0? no. if you're not going to play the game because they only allow same sex marriage then, well... you need to wake up and smell something because there are much more important things to worry about in 2.0 than this. this is selfish because you're not thinking about the other cultures that we share the game with.

the general idea of marriage being a hot topic for the release XIV is not only sad but a huge waste of SE's resources best used elsewhere.

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I don't think anyone here is saying SE needs to make in-game marriage a priority of any sort, simply that if they're going to introduce any kind of marriage system in the game we feel it should include SSM.

Also, if we're being sensitive to culture, how rude is it that other cultures playing this game feel we shouldn't have SSM because of their beliefs? Plain and simple fact is, if you're culturally opposed to SSM, then don't marry someone of the same gender in game. No one is forcing you to participate.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

He is got a valid point that making this decision might effect the company as a whole, Not everyone outside US is as open minded when it comes to this issue, it is still taboo to like majority of asian countries.

I am not against this idea but lets be real here, you are not really missing anything when they do not let you have SSM ingame.

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Except the same things that everyone else who can get married has...

Again, if you're culturally opposed to SSM, don't marry someone of the same gender. That's no excuse to deny others the right to.

There's no reason why people should be telling us to consider the effects of their company image, that's their issue and they have people for that sort of thing. No one on these forums knows a lick about how it would effect their sales.
I mean even Yoshi-P himself asked for our opinions on it and we are giving it to him.

I have to admit, it's nice to see so many people support it, and so few oppose it. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. =D

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Originally Posted by Issachar

I dont think a poll is appropriate for this topic. The fragility of the topic goes beyond this simple game, it could negatively affect the company and it's brands if mishandled.

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Of course. Let's just ignore the equality factor and worry about their profits instead of our enjoyment... Derp!

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Originally Posted by DubstepNinja

Damn those guys always fighting for equality

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In the case of online games, they can and do blow things out of proportion. I'm not anti-LGBT, but if a developer doesn't want to accommodate your lifestyle choice, play something else and let the other people have fun instead of making a scene. The feminists could learn this lesson too, to a massive degree.

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Originally Posted by KrissKringle

Of course. Let's just ignore the equality factor and worry about their profits instead of our enjoyment... Derp!

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A lot of people have gotten into the habit of defending SE in spite of their own enjoyment. It's a bad habit of the FFXI/FFXIV playerbase.

I don't think the issue is so much that its for or against it, but rather SE's decision on how to go about it and protect their interests at the same time. That they even brought this topic up in the Live broadcast was a bold step for them, which I applaud.

It really is more about finding a solution to implement it from a marketing standpoint. In an ideal world, this would not be an issue, but sadly we live in a real world where beliefs are different from our own. Society will eventually evolve from this, but until then, I support SE's idea of treading carefully.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

In the case of online games, they can and do blow things out of proportion. I'm not anti-LGBT, but if a developer doesn't want to accommodate your lifestyle choice, play something else and let the other people have fun instead of making a scene. The feminists could learn this lesson too, to a massive degree.

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If it's a choice, I defy you to try choosing to be gay.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

In the case of online games, they can and do blow things out of proportion. I'm not anti-LGBT, but if a developer doesn't want to accommodate your lifestyle choice, play something else and let the other people have fun instead of making a scene. The feminists could learn this lesson too, to a massive degree.

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Yoshida asked for opinions.

He's getting opinions.

Edit: lol I just noticed the "lifestyle choice"...... hah!

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

A.) If it's a choice, I defy you to try choosing to be gay.

B.) You must be a Republican, anti-gay, anti-women, in complete denial about both.

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Expressing your sexuality in a game is a choice. Anyways, no point in talking to a blind extremist like yourself.

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Yoshida asked for opinions.

He's getting opinions.

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And opinions are what is happening. But when you get schmucks like the other guy I quoted, some opinions are better left unspoken.

EDIT: Just saw your edit. See above. Expressing things that have no real place in a teen-friendly online game is a lifestyle choice. It's not helping your cause.

Anyways, I foresee this turning into a "your opinion is different than my own, so you are a bigot" strawman argument. That's cool. You can just keep assuming I'm a prejudice, straight male. And you'd be wrong on all counts.