If someone makes a deadly boss mods type addon for ARR would you use it?

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Originally Posted by Bashy

i take it you are one of those people that start playing after they raise the cap then. Gotcha.

i had a feeling you were one of those .

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Played since before the release of TOAU brah.

I can actually evolve with the game, I don't have rose tinted glasses about mammets or airship fights.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

What I don't get is why some people care so much about how somebody else enjoys the game. It's none of your damn business. As long as the mod isn't doing actions for the player, does it even matter? It's just presenting the same information in a different way.

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well said one of the few posts in here that was worth reading.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Yoshida did talking about making~.

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Sadly right now i don't believe in anything Yoshida say or do, again that's only me maybe the rest of the people still cheering for him, but I'm done believing in him or his ideas

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Originally Posted by Bashy

Sadly right now i don't believe in anything Yoshida say or do, again that's only me maybe the rest of the people still cheering for him, but I'm done believing in him or his ideas

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Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiKayla

screw the 30% that think they are special because they dedicate days of their life playing a game... maybe on the other hand they should go out and get a life... its unhealthy and you can tell who they are by how they act towards others...

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You seriously think the people who have more time to play think they're "special" because of it? Really?

So, the issue isn't that people who can play more are able to get farther, it's that they think they're special because they can?

That sounds an awful lot unlike a rational argument, and an awful lot like projection.

I'd love to see a show of hands here among those with more time, to see how many of them think "they're special" because of it. I predict the number of those who do would be rather low.

If you take a look at the whole of complaints that people come up with for MMORPGs - and even non-MMORPGs - not just any one specific complaint, you begin to see a picture of the overall attitude people have toward these games, and toward others playing them. The one thing that becomes apparent is that there's a lot of self-entitled, jealous people out there who can't stand the idea that someone else is farther along than them in any context - levels, gear, etc.

Someone saying "it's not fair that people with more time can make more progress than me" is about the purest, most direct example of that jealousy that I can think of. There's so much implicit in that statement, it's amazing when you think about it.

I mean, it's gotta be obvious to someone saying it that they can get what others have, and they can progress as far as others have. There's nothing stopping them from doing so (except themselves). So what's their issue? That they will have to put in the time and effort others did to get to that point; and they don't want to. Hence, we see arguments for "making leveling faster", "make content easier", etc. etc.

See, I would contend it's not the ones with more time to play who "think they're special". It's those who have less time to play (or claim to), or who come in with unreasonable expectations, who tend to consistently rise to the surface as the most entitled and "special". The ones with more time are generally just playing. Think of the arguments you see for making things easier/faster, etc...

Here's a few off the top of my head - all of which are 100% perfect examples of a self-entitled, "I'm special" attitude, mixed in with a bit of condescension and obvious bitterness:

- "I have a wife and family and a job. I don't have the time I used to have to play these games. They need to make them less time-consuming so people like me can make more progress and keep up with those with more time to play". - Wrong. Your real life circumstances don't entitle you to anything. Even as far back as EQ1, people with all of that, even businesses of their own, played the game and had a ball. How? They had realistic expectations of what they could accomplish in the game given their available time. They didn't expect the game to bend to their "special circumstances".

- "Sorry, but just because I don't sit in my mother's basement and game 24/7 doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to keep up with those who do". Wrong, and extremely ignorant, considering you don't know the circumstances of every person who happens to have more time to play. You also don't know that people have more time to play. Some people are simply more efficient and organized at getting through content with the time they have. A friend of mine had far less time to play XI than me, but still managed to get much farther than I did. How? His time online was generally much more focused and directed toward getting specific tasks done.

- "Games are supposed to be fun. I don't consider a long leveling curve to be fun. It's tedious and it needs to go away. MMOs are all about end-game anyway. Game developers are stupid and just haven't figured that out yet". (this is most often argued, I find, by people for whom "getting to level cap ASAP is their #1 priority, so the self-serving bias is rather obvious). Game developers not creating a game designed to cater specifically to "you" does not make them "stupid". It makes you stupid for choosing to play a game that clearly doesn't fit with your time/expectations.

- "People who prefer longer leveling curves or slower progression are just masochists. No one in their right mind would enjoy that." (spoken primarily by people who, like above, feel "end game is all that matters", whose primary goal is "level cap ASAP, and who assumes that's how everyone should think, because they personally do). Not everyone looks for the same experience in a MMO. Some enjoy the journey. Those people aren't "masochists". They just have a different approach to the game. That "you" don't understand, or can't accept, how they can enjoy a play style that you don't doesn't make them masochists. It makes you closed minded.

In every single case - 100% of them - it traces back to the person wanting the game faster/easier/more convenient feeling that their particular situation makes them "special" and entitled, and that the MMO world should revolve around their particular circumstances, or the devs are clueless and the whole thing is wrong.

Incidentally, there are people out there with less time to play (jobs, families, etc) who don't think they're a special case, who don't feel the genre revolves around them and their personal situation, who do realize they're one of many thousands of people also playing the game, and who still prefer the game to not hand everything to them. So not only is the whole "not a lot of time to play" argument a hollow one, it's not even a consistent one.

So, regarding the "people thinking they're special". No, ShinigamiKayla. I think you have that backwards. It's not the people with more time to play who think they're special. It's the people who, for myriad reasons, feel the game needs to be changed to cater to them personally who do.

Someone said elsewhere in the thread that people should stop worrying about what others are doing and just play the game. I tend to agree with that argument. Of course, the person who said it did so in defense of using add-ons. I'm using it regarding this whole "oh, they have more time to play. It's not fair. The game needs to be changed so "they don't have an advantage"" thing. Stop worrying about how much time others have to play, how much others have accomplished, or anything like that... Just play the game for yourself and have fun based on your own progression.

Of course, I know that'll never happen. Many people seem to base their enjoyment of a game entirely around how far others are, and how much stuff others have acquired, rather than what they've done and how far they've gotten. A lot of petty jealousy out there.

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Originally Posted by Coombah

well said one of the few posts in here that was worth reading.

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I don't care about others using addons, up to the point that it becomes "mandatory" - per my guild/linkshell leader - to use one or I can't do the raid with them. Then it is affecting me.

And I'm quite sure you and Molly_Millions wouldn't be so tolerant of "how others play the game" if you found someone you were competing with for a mob, or a major claim, were using a bot to do so - assuming neither of you were using one yourselves. I'm pretty certain you'd have a very different outlook on "how others play the game" then.

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Originally Posted by PinkamenaDiane

ARR is going to have user created addons so if someone made a deadly boss mods type addon to help out on FFXIV boss fights would you use it?

The addon would do stuff like alert you when the boss is about to use a devastating attack, tell you when something should be stunned, tell you to move ahead of time or if your standing in something bad. Have timers for when bosses special moves become available. Those type of things, all done by analyzing the battle log.

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Yup, I would use it. Some say it takes the challenge away but I play to win and if there is a mod that makes it easier on me to do that then I will use it.

Would I use it? Yeah, easier than circle talking for 300 Loadstone posts.

DBM is not a bot. Neither is Adibags, Decursive or anything like that. Say it as much as you like - and I'm sure you will, because painting addons in that light would surely help your point - but they are not. Addons are tools that make information more available to you. Bots play the game for you - not this hyperbole-ridden nonsense, but literally allow you to not be present at the keyboard while the game is going on.

Full disclosure here, at the risk of having my input ignored through ad-hominems: I have actually used a true bot a long time ago. A buddy of mine and I joined the chinese server of ragnarok online and he had somehow come across the program, I have no idea how and I didn't ask. Curiosity got the better of us and we set it up and tried it out, only for a few days but enough to see how it works. They are actually pretty fascinating pieces of tech - we were able to literally set the thing to move out to a farm spot, kill mobs, pick up loot, walk all the way back to town when its bags were full, npc everything that dropped, and then march right back out to the same spot and do it again. And this was years ago, I can't imagine how much more sophisticated they'd be by now.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that if you're trying to compare something that pokes you when you're standing in fire/goo/bad stuff, with a true bot....you're going to come off sounding silly. There is no comparison. None.

As far as the game being developed with addons like DBM in mind?

Why is that a bad thing?

No, seriously think about it. These people saying how the fights in WoW are much more complex than what we're getting in the FF online games aren't just blowing smoke. Seriously, finish van Darnus then try to do heroic Ragnaros - there is a world of difference. There is so much going on in that fight that if you tried to do it with the tools that FFXIV gives us, your head would explode. That's because you can accomplish so many more actions in the same amount of time - in fact, you're expected to if you want to survive. I don't get how someone would want to gimp themselves on purpose, when getting rid of those limitations would open the game up to so much more in terms of encounters.

Another point seems to be that people maybe not as good would suddenly have a crutch to stand on which would allow them to clear content they wouldn't be able to do. Again, how is this a bad thing? Having more people that can do content means that there's more groups actually doing it, so less waiting around to get it done. Hey I like crafting a lot, but not everybody has something to do while waiting around shouting in Uldah.

Maybe the problem is keeping the addons up to date, I know that was a hassle back in the day - or even just getting the addons in the first place and installing them. But really that's a non-issue nowadays too, curse.com has a program that almost completely automates that for you - lets you know when the creator put out an update, installs it to the proper folder and everything. Depending on how prolific addons in ARR become maybe the same treatment would happen for this game, who knows. I can kind of understand this point.
Having said that, about the only addon I've ever come across in WoW that any guilds considered mandatory was DBM. A single one. Updating one addon is hardly something to cry over.

I know that there are going to be some people that say 'fuck all that, I just want to play the game without addons'. Maybe you'll still be able to cope even if they do start working encounters around the idea that people are using them, maybe not. I certainly can't fault you for that view, everybody has their own cutoff - I can tell you right now that any game that would allow the use of true bots is not a game I'd be interested in playing. But the fact of the matter is: addons are coming. Maybe they'll only be cosmetic, who knows. But if there is anything that can increase reaction time in players...and it becomes widespread enough that SE does start to build around that knowledge...you'll need to ask yourself: is this something I'd be willing to stop playing over?

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

I don't care about others using addons, up to the point that it becomes "mandatory" - per my guild/linkshell leader - to use one or I can't do the raid with them. Then it is affecting me.

And I'm quite sure you and Molly_Millions wouldn't be so tolerant of "how others play the game" if you found someone you were competing with for a mob, or a major claim, were using a bot to do so - assuming neither of you were using one yourselves. I'm pretty certain you'd have a very different outlook on "how others play the game" then.

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Always using the same argument over and over. Again what forces you to play in a guild where addons are mandatory? Oh yeah nothing. Lead your own raid/guild then or join one that do not require addons to be mandatory.

How hard is that? It's hard to understand what you are afraid of. Afraid of losing your friends who will force you to have addons if you want to raid with them? Afraid of being left behind on progression?

On topic: yes.

In all honesty, I would prefer it if the UI changes being made were to be cosmetic only. Would I use it? I don't know. I kind of like that I don't have to right now, so if something like this became "must have" then it would probably be a sad day for me. If it took the enjoyment out of the game then I would probably not use it. Video games are there to be viewed in graphical form, not text form. At least, that's how I see it. Some text is good, but too much can ruin the immersion.

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Originally Posted by Jeronlmo

DBM most likely wont happen (legally) because of the ps4 being attatched to the game, ps4 users would quit if they didnt have this same (massive) advantage. Good to know you personally need a bot to tell you CC uses AI. Why cant people just read the chat log or watch the physical animation, having something basically scream (alarm) at you and slap you in the face (Large arrows) seems a bit overkill.

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The issue with watching for animations can be hardware, software or interweb lag at times, but this part i agree with you about, i prefer in game an animated sign's of what's coming.

But read the log? really? How is that fun, its not a text based game i prefer to see and enjoy watching the fight. and a big warning on the screen isn't hugely different from looking at a log waiting for XX is doing YYY!! imo.

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Originally Posted by Loony_BoB

In all honesty, I would prefer it if the UI changes being made were to be cosmetic only. Would I use it? I don't know. I kind of like that I don't have to right now, so if something like this became "must have" then it would probably be a sad day for me. If it took the enjoyment out of the game then I would probably not use it. Video games are there to be viewed in graphical form, not text form. At least, that's how I see it. Some text is good, but too much can ruin the immersion.

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I'd prefer it the same to a point. but i think mmo's need a more complex UI then we have atm here now.
I don't see any harm in some mods that improve the UI, a good key biding system, even if its we submit them to SE, but it really can go to far when its you need this list of 30 mods installed to play with people.

Personally I love a clean, minimal clutter arty interface (yeah confusing but i know what i mean) i would kill to see a lot more information then we have now though, titen bar i think it was or something on WoW did that to me, i reskinned it and well yeah.. .

i don't believe in add ons, synergy or any other crap involved with add ons. i hate the idea that people can have something like this. why even play if you need something like this. if it's important it should be added to the game for all and done. the chat log says it, in ffxi we had the ability to color change things in log setting to make them stand out in the log ..that should be enough. lol if i miss a stun and i hear a wise crack like you should get this add on i would probably rage on him.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

i don't believe in add ons, synergy or any other crap involved with add ons. i hate the idea that people can have something like this. why even play if you need something like this. if it's important it should be added to the game for all and done. the chat log says it, in ffxi we had the ability to color change things in log setting to make them stand out in the log ..that should be enough. lol if i miss a stun and i hear a wise crack like you should get this add on i would probably rage on him.

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Having things built in is always better unless they are fluff content add ons or just visual overhauls.
On-screen icons that warm you something is happening not even what ( that should be down to the player to remember) would be a lot nicer for me personally then looking at a log. but it wouldn't be much different and actually would tell me less then the log.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Sure but they are not the same either. Its like a hacker that becomes a game designer - his games arent hacks. But it is a school story when talking about hacks.

I wouldnt have taken it as such if you didnt say "Actually". Like I am wrong. Addons sanctioned by the mmos that I've at least heard of are prohibited from completing botting like actions.

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Sorry, didn't intend it that way. I was just throwing out a random fun fact. Obviously they're not the same. Add ons don't automate things so much as they reorganize info and/or present it in a different fashion. Bots on the other hand physically take the player completely out of the loop.

I hope Yoshi makes the bosses give us visual signals when they use something thats worth dodging.

So many ignorant posts in here I can't keep up anymore.

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Originally Posted by Renen

I hope Yoshi makes the bosses give us visual signals when they use something thats worth dodging.

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They allready do...

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Originally Posted by Levian

Sorry, didn't intend it that way. I was just throwing out a random fun fact. Obviously they're not the same. Add ons don't automate things so much as they reorganize info and/or present it in a different fashion. Bots on the other hand physically take the player completely out of the loop.

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Well then you had a really cool story I never heard of before :D. Makes sense were the name came from then.. lol

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Originally Posted by Renen

I hope Yoshi makes the bosses give us visual signals when they use something thats worth dodging.

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It looks the direction for singals at least, maybe not all visual.. Nael Van Darnus had loads of chat signals.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Well then you had a really cool story I never heard of before :D. Makes sense were the name came from then.. lol



It looks the direction for singals at least, maybe not all visual.. Nael Van Darnus had loads of chat signals.

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Unfortunantly thats just Nael. Every other NM/Boss you have to make a seperate battle window to see enemy skills with... You cant really tell what attack they're going to do otherwise because all the aura's look the same.