Guys hey guys.
Seriously.
What if P2P games... you didnt have to buy an initial copy D:? Basically inverse guildwars strat.
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09-03-2012, 03:31 PMPhen
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09-03-2012, 03:38 PMVeltaine
30 days is always nice to have. let the players have a run, if they like it. they stay :) 15 dollars a month isnt terribly asking a lot, and usually forms a tighter knit group of ppl (whether that may be good or bad)
CLOSER because you made a commitment for a month to see how you can benefit from playing this game
I've met awesome people, including some guys like you. although i am looking forward to 2.0 and the content finder, maybe we can all start doing stuffs together.
but yeah. F2P has got its games, and some of them are rather good.
FF imo has been a great P2P model, and shouldnt derive from that. IMO -
09-03-2012, 07:04 PMAntipikaPSO2 is like this, you don't have to buy anything. (But there is still a "premium package" being sold and giving some bonuses.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Phen
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09-03-2012, 08:21 PMSeirra_LanzceThe more a reason to love Gramul? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Gramul
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09-03-2012, 09:51 PMMiliant
I'm playing therefore I'm paying. I don't mind paying or not. What I do mind is the game being dead. If a F2P model is going to resurrect the game then so be it.
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09-03-2012, 10:02 PMdragorian
dang stop crying/beating a dead horse with legacy most of us are basicly getting almost free account and also free sub will start soon and last a few months cant get any more free than that also this thread reminds me it is as dumb as the grass and jumping one
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09-03-2012, 10:06 PMNighthawk
Apparently this game is so good that most want to keep playing it for a long time to come but not worthy enough to pay for it monthly. This is why there are many F2P games out there, you have many choices. Just funny how alot complain about this game one way or another but yet again they are here repeating the same things over and over.
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09-03-2012, 10:22 PMAluxesYou forgot the reason why F2P graphic quality is so poor. It is to convince people with low-spec PC to play the game. And heck, it works like a charm, man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
Think it like a facebook games in client, you get the basic gist of it. -
09-03-2012, 11:20 PMNefGPBecause there are a lot of whiny, spoiled, entitled brats out there who can't grasp the concept that severs need maintenance and keeping 24/7 GM and other support for the game doesn't come cheap either. And don't forget about those regular updates we all love.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
Seriously, Yoshi P and the crew may be passionate, but they're not doing all this purely out of the good of their hearts. -
09-03-2012, 11:38 PMZante
The only time a MMO should really think of going F2P is after a few years and the population starts to shrink imo.
I know alot of MMO's are going F2P now but i hate them for it most F2P MMO's offer in game shops to get money back which means if you dont have the cash to spend then the people who buy from the cash shop have an unfair advantage and lets face it if your so stuck for cash you cant pay the monthly fee to play the game... then dont play? lol plenty of offline games out there you can save money for and buy and there F2P forever once you buy them!
Imo if FFXI/FFXIV go free to play i will just stop playing. -
09-04-2012, 06:41 AMNefGP
Let's be fair - I'm not knocking F2P entirely - there are some pretty fun, well made F2P games.
However I just don't think you can really make and sustain an MMO of this size & quality on an F2P model - especially if you want to preserve game balance. That's why Blizzard refuses to raise the level cap beyond 20 for WoW, and just look at how badly SWTOR is tanking.
Some people just can't come to terms that you might actually have to pay for quality goods. -
09-04-2012, 07:58 AMAntipikaYeah you "just don't think", while the majority of the companies out there (and their trained staff of professional in the field of business management) think otherwise. I wonder who is right. A bunch of players on forums or the people in charge of designing these business model and generating profit for the company they work for.Quote:
Originally Posted by NefGP
As for Blizzard and WoW, it's completely irrelevant. It's like saying why SE doesn't make XI a F2P. WoW is an old generation game, it has its own audience, it will keep it for a while now. Absolutely no reason to go F2P when you still have ~10M sub on an 8 y/o game. Just like XI have no reason to go F2P while it still generating an amazing stable income for SE.
If it was one or two companies making this choice we could always say "yeah they are probably wrong etc.", but it's almost everyone now. Even Yoshida said that SE is ready to explore alternative business models in the future but that for now, XIV ARR was announced as P2P and will be delivered as P2P and then they will see. At least he isn't as stubborn as some people in here, completely closed to all alternative.
Because Diablo 3 doesn't have any servers. Bandwidth costs for MMOs represent only a tiny part of the monthly fee you pay. What cost the most is the manpower (DEVs and not Customer Support). CS is one of the cheapest manpower with QA... One DEV cost as much as 5~8 QA/CS employee. Most of CS is outsourced nowadays as well.Quote:
Because there are a lot of whiny, spoiled, entitled brats out there who can't grasp the concept that severs need maintenance and keeping 24/7 GM and other support for the game doesn't come cheap either. And don't forget about those regular updates we all love.
Updates cost a lot because it requires dev time, hence why MMO without sub usually try and sell expansions on a regular basis in order to generate income through product sales. -
09-04-2012, 08:04 AMRannieQuote:
Originally Posted by Antipika
you know if you call Se's na customer support line you're contacting California one of the most expensive states besides Alaska and Hawaii for Cost of living and they're in the LA Region as well... their Area code is 305. Also it's why they work on pst hours which are 9-5 so 12-8 est or edt whatever you want to call it at this point in time. So I doubt they're being paid cheaply -
09-04-2012, 08:09 AMMijin
Hey I have a great Idea! How about we add a RMAH to FFXIV when we go free to play! I hear it works great for diablo III.
/sarcasm -
09-04-2012, 08:28 AMcylia
i vote for subscription system.
but it should be 8 euros / 10 $ by month to be attractive
for casual players a one day subscription should be available : around 0,25 euros / 0,30 $ by day
it could also be a pay by hour system : so 0,02 euros / 0,03 $ by hour.
Not sure if this model have been used in a lot of MMO but it looks fair no ?
but i think if a pay by day / pay by hour would be done, the compagny will ask for a higher price, it wont be proportional to month subscription that will be cheaper
it wont be like the example i gave earlier but more expansive, sadly : 0,50 $ /day and 0,05 $ / hour -
09-04-2012, 08:42 AMRannieQuote:
Originally Posted by cylia
actually with the plans that they're going for for subs here on the game isn't that bad to begin with
Legacy players for america pay 9.99 a month and can have up to 40 characters 8 max per server
entry sub will be 12.99 a month with a limit of 1 char per world max 8 and then there's the other one for
standard 14.99 and it's the same as the legacy but 5 dollars more which isn't that bad of a price -
09-04-2012, 10:42 AMAntipikaYeah right, people not being paid cheap in a call center :rolleyes:. You should start and look for a job in this sector and see how much you will get out of it ;) Even if you take a "decent" salary for someone in a call center is California, try and compare it to the one of a developer in Tokyo...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rannie
Also protip: the number you dial means nothing. You can dial whatever area code you want, your call could be redirected anywhere without you knowing about it. You cannot determine where a call center is located. I'm not saying that SE support itself it outsourced (no way to confirm it from where we are), but it's just a common practice in the industry nowadays. All major companies outsource their support. They only keep a handful amount of employee on their company HQ just to supervise the whole thing.
As for the time you can call, seriously in which world are you living? Ever heard the word globalization? I can call my ISP support during daytime while their call center is in India. Are you aware that you have people working 24/7 everywhere around the world for that? Some employees in these call center even receive "culture training" in order to know more about the country they are supporting. They also listen to the news and keep themselves informed about anything such as the weather so the customer feel like he is talking to someone nearby and the agent can hold a conversation about any kind of recent event happening 10,000km from where he is.
DEVs cost can hardly be reduced. If you want a quality game, you need good devs, that cost lot of money. And you cannot easily outsource all your devs. It's just not convenient and you don't save that much either. However for things like CS, you can save money easily, without impacting much customers :)
Pay by day or even per hour of gameplay is a model that is widely used in Asia (just like for internet back in the day, you can purchase bundle of 20/50/100 hours etc.). For some reason it never made in it the West. At least I'm not aware of MMOs using this system. Closest I know is Dofus that allows 1 week subscription. But that's mainly so young people can pay using their (parents) phone.Quote:
Originally Posted by cylia
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09-04-2012, 11:01 AMRannieQuote:
Originally Posted by Antipika
here's a protip. I've called up Se Customer service center already and spoke and talked to them about being in California. Second of all I'm already in a customer support job already and the number you have to call for my job is a 1-800 number. There are a lot more call centers here in the states than you realize and they get paid more money than you realize. No Se Na's hours of operation for calling are a set time from 9 am to 5pm pst/pdt try calling outside of those time frames and you get a recording saying they're closed. I also know places say open for 24/7 I WORK IN A CALL CENTER. There are different ques that are open different hours My que closes at 11pm EST/EDT and sometimes earlier due to certain holidays. You don't need to preach to me about it because I AM in that type of business.
PS. I've been working in customer support for almost 5 years now with the same company.
PPS: I get paid well above minimum wage at my job. The only issue I'm having with money is Fmla and not being able to work a full 8 hours without losing my voice to laryngitis. Otherwise for a Single woman who has no children I make damn good money at my job. tyvm -
09-04-2012, 11:32 AMStarlordYoutuber comment, its like half the world is in Debt or something x.x meh .Quote:
*sigh* I'll wait until it goes free to play.... assuming that it goes f2p
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09-04-2012, 11:46 AMElexiaThis is technically true lol, but yes most hate paying for good things..thus why DRM plagues us all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
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09-04-2012, 11:57 AMStarlordLol Yes it is true.. however 10-15 dollars a month for a game that can be " Potentially Awesome" is not much to ask for in a Premium MMO :P.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elexia
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09-04-2012, 01:24 PMrockman0I used to think it was like this. I was so innocent back then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phen
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09-04-2012, 10:07 PMHuginn
IMHO, free to play proponents are usually 11 years old and are running out of prepaid visa cards they got on their birthday from rich relatives who did not know what to get them. This is not the playerbase i am interested in playing alongside.
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09-04-2012, 10:21 PMrubinaThat's what turned me off from EQ2 with all that online store non-sense. I't was weird watching other players spend a ton of RL cash on virtual trading cards booster packs for the hopes of getting a loot card which they can use with their character. Also seeing players buying RL game time card codes in exchange for game gold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Huginn
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09-04-2012, 10:44 PMleomike35
Isn't it all about personal preference? I don't play other mmo because they all seem to play like baldurs gate with their tiny on screen avatars and seemingly rapid fire spells and the look of the gameplay.
I play final fantasy xiv for the new ff mmo experience period.
I'm sure everyone else plays the games they like for similar reasons.
Play the games you like and leave the ones you don't. No need to argue or try to change this game to any other model.
Its like the whole xbox vs ps3 debates back then.
I simply say own both then it doesn't matter much now does it?
To each their own and let that be the end of it. -
09-04-2012, 10:48 PMMishakai
IMO, gamers for the most part have become cheap. It's like the evolution of entitlementism... First they want everything handed to them w/o having to put forth any in game effort, now they want it for free too.
Makes sense.. A few years back, P2P games were paid for with Mom and Dad's credit card, now they've been kicked out of the basement and have to foot the bill on their own. -
09-04-2012, 11:17 PMIngolf
This whole attitude that everyone who doesn't want to pay more money than they have to is a child, is pretty preposterous. What are you paying your monthly fee for? It's not for servers. Do you get 4 expansions worth of content every single year?
Whilst I don't think p2p is a bad thing, some of you people seem to want to throw your money away without a second thought, and you look down on those of us who would prefer to have one less expense monthly.
I pay for XIV because I enjoy it, but that doesn't mean that every proponent of the f2p system simply doesn't have enough money to pay. -
09-05-2012, 12:16 AMAntipikaYeah but most of people here are stubborn and don't get that. They are also too lazy to get informed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingolf
You have F2P titles where over 10% of the customers are spending over $15 a month while they are active on the game. Actually it's the otherway around, you have more people willing to spend money on F2P rather than on P2P. P2P is more a cheap choice than F2P in certain cases.
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As for gamer being cheap, I hope that's a joke lol, more and more people are purchasing DLCs, even pay for cheats/unlocks in single player games. People pay for Xbox Live or Call of Duty elite.
Gamers have been spending money even more than before. In 1999 when I started playing MMO, $13 a month was considered as a huge investment, paying every month to play was really something special. Now it's pretty much normal. Gamers did not become cheap. -
09-05-2012, 01:19 AMIngolfI think I'm stuck in the old ways, I also remember $15 a month (well £8.99 really for me) being a huge investment to play a video game, after the initial purchase. Back when people actually bought a game once, and then they were done with paying. They had a complete game and the only thing they'd have to pay for is stand alone expansion packs with a high volume of content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipika
The stance that someone who would prefer to pay as little as possible given the option is "Entitled" must be bred from a newer generation of gamer, who is used to pay $1.99 for a new assault rifle for Call of battlefield 3. Not all companies do this, but it's sad that paying consistently after the purchase of a game, is seen as a common thing.
I will pay for a game monthly, generally if I'm playing an MMO, I'm not buying other games, so I'm saving in the long run, but that doesn't make a monthly subscription the only method to be used. Other methods aren't inferior. -
09-05-2012, 01:50 AMStarlord
Copy and paste on another thread this is strictly how I feel about F2P VS P2P:
I honestly don't get why people wanna pay more in the long run, When a person finally makes 1 game their "main" MMO reguardless of what MMO that is, they are going to want the best things for their character, if you don't by anything on a F2P game, You will look ( not so epic), You'll will probably want exp boosters/extra inventory/AH slots etc etc.
At the end of the day (even if it is only 1 day til next year) a person could and I stress could wide up spending 200 bucks, on it. Now say a person wants to make FFXIV: ARR their main game but they are turned off by P2P simple because it has the word "pay" in it, just doesn't see the full picture of it all.
- 15 (at max) times 12= 180 bucks (Standard)
- 13 times 12= 156 ( Entry).
When it comes to the bottom of it by the end of the year ( and this can vary from person to person) can spend just as much on a p2p game than on a f2p.
Like others have said and I agree with them, that each Model has their own thing going for them, which is fine I'm happy for both Genres getting the most out of them. but saying "No" to p2p simply the excuse is always because " well I have to pay"... well you pay for f2p too, you just don't realize till you spent 200 bucks on f2p things at a cash shop and wounder why your account is 200 bucks less :P.
I wish the best of luck for all MMOs out their, because each of them have their own unique way of showing things. What it truly boils down to is, Which MMO game is the greatest to play, and which MMO will be their "main" MMO. p2p/f2p/b2p aside, in the end you wide up paying the same amount every year.
This is how I view the f2p/b2p VS p2p my answer is: They are equal in strength, but the word "free" to play gives them the edge. -
09-05-2012, 01:55 AMKraususQuote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
Its usually not the graphics that are the issue, there are plenty of high graphic F2P MMOs on the market, the issue is quality of gameplay, content updates, and the community. Some of the responses on this thread try to paint the P2P business model the reason some games like SWTOR are failing, it isn't the business model its because those games suck and are not worth paying a monthly fee for. GW1/2 model works because you pay for the game and if you want additional content (expansion) you pay for that to but you will not see huge free content updates like most MMOs and the item mall stuff is mostly convenience and fluff. I see quite a bit of TF2 in this thread (lulz) its not even an MMO and doesn't belong in here all games like TF2 are F2P the difference with TF2 is you actually purchase the game (which is why it is better then the other arena battle shooters out there that are totally free). -
09-05-2012, 02:02 AMStarlordExactly, I agree 100% on what you said. If the game is good then people will feel more inclined to pay for ( even if they say the whole f2p? thing at first) because in the end, if the game is worth paying for then people will more likely to pay the sub for it. ( just like WoW and they have 9+ million subs and still going).Quote:
it isn't the business model its because those games suck and are not worth paying a monthly fee for.
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09-05-2012, 02:05 AMKraususQuote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
those people that scream "F2P or GTFO!" will not pay a monthly fee for any game so I would just write them off. -
09-05-2012, 02:06 AMStarlordWell personally, I wouldn't want them in the community, but if they happen "to" pay for it.. then its more money for SE to get more content out. That's why we have a blacklist feature. =).Quote:
Originally Posted by Krausus
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09-05-2012, 03:35 AMtrintaIrony. <3Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
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09-05-2012, 05:44 AMYrusama
I'm quite content paying for this. Then again, I'm a legacy member.
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09-05-2012, 05:53 AMZumiYou seem to be missing the point. If there wasn't more money to be had then companies wouldn't make games free to play. There is the ability to make more money with a free to play plus a cash shop then a pay to play model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
I rather have the game be free to play so I don't feel obligated to play it all the time. Let the people who are hard core into buying dumb hats, sunglasses, mounts and pets pay for the dev cost. Cost me less in the long run because I don't care about vanity items, exp boosts or whatever they would sell in the cash shop. -
09-05-2012, 05:59 AMStarlordI had a feeling someone was going to say that at some point hehe. but everyone is entitled to their opinion, I like everything all in one glump, everything in the game.Quote:
I rather have the game be free to play so I don't feel obligated to play it all the time.
So if your going to let a p2p feature turn you away because you" feel" like you need to play the whole month everyday to get your 10-15 bucks worth of the game then idn how you get your fill of a 60 buck offline game in a max time of 40 hours then :P.
If that's how you feel, then that's how you feel, we all have opinions and I respect yours ^.^ -
09-05-2012, 06:09 AMZumiI am worried about SEs track record. I didn't feel like I got my money's worth out of FFXI at all and I still have a sub to it might cancel soon since I had enough. Which is why I rather just have it free to play have people who want vanity items pay for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
If you didn't know FFXI updates were very few and very slim if you look at any of their recent updates you would think is this a joke? For example, buy stuff from the craft guilds faster, store more items with storage slips, in fact the majority of their updates are bug fixs or slight tweaks to content. Anyway the major updates they make you pay for like the 3 addon stories for $10 each for $30 total, every new update you were paying $10 just to play the new content. Then came the year they rolled out abyssea same thing each new set of abyssea zones cost $10 each for a total of $30 over 3 patchs. You would think the sub fees would pay for stuff like that but no. If you didn't buy the abyssea addons not only would you not be able to get af3 gear but you probably wouldn't be able to exp either since everyone went to abyssea to exp now.
Will SE do the same thing in FFXIV? If they have a big patch will you have to throw down an extra $10 to play it on top of your monthly fee? -
09-05-2012, 06:16 AMRannieQuote:
Originally Posted by Zumi
If you didn't like the game which is basically what you were saying since it wasn't worth your money. Why are you still paying to play it. Why didn't you, when it didn't meet your expectations, leave the game period. Why did you feel justified having to shell out that money for those expansions was it just for the af3 gear? That's just a laughable excuse since you didn't like the game and it wasn't worth your money.