Tomestones.. Again.. for a relic..

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

complete 2 manderville quests and then get 1500 tomestones.

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Its lazy yes but lets not pretend like Relic grinds were anything but lazy.

Doesn't help that everything else in Endwalker is lacking though

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Originally Posted by Xirean

It's also possible that the devs considered the entirety of Hildibrand to be part of the grind. I know a few of my friends certainly do.

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Never have I used the skip cutscene feature with such reckless abandon.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Its lazy yes but lets not pretend like Relic grinds were anything but lazy.

Doesn't help that everything else in Endwalker is lacking though

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yea last relic grind was pretty lazy, multiple 48 mans with a savage version of one just for fun.

At least it doesn't require raids. I just wish we could trade up older tomestones. Say, ten poetics for one Astronomy, and so on. Might speed up the grind a bit.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

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Hey, at least there is a fight in the quests... as an NPC...

The first step was very easy so people got multiple if not all weapons which imply they can't/won't block players with a time-gated grind, not until 6.55 at least. Imagine if you had run like 100 expert roulettes for each weapon. ;) And not like they are adding trust support to MSQ instances without a reason. They are aiming at solo/old players that don't have time or interest in MMO design from 10-20 years ago (when they were kids and had the time for it).

At 6.5/6.55 they probably add a step requiring X alliance raid clears and people will be furious they have to do 5, 10, 20... runs per weapon and if they don't add it other people will be furious they didn't add it. And healers will be furious if they add piety on the third step while tome/6.4 weapons will not have it becoming BiS for long because 0.1% parse... or they will take down crit from tank/dps weapons :D

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Originally Posted by Amenara

Hey, at least there is a fight in the quests... as an NPC...

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just wait until 7.0 when the materials are downgraded to poetics

Well for any serious steps like bozja eureka alike.. we first got those after some easy steps in earlier weapons.

However they take away the insane fategrind, which was tedious and more torture than working for something... we will work more for it later on.... and also heavy grind is going away slowly in general.

Really does bolster the argument that the B team is working on FFXIV keeping it on life support while the main team is busy getting FFXVI ready to ship.

Everything post EW release has been pretty lackluster. (IMHO)

I just wish the easy steps came with content to do, the first step of bozja relics came out with an EX trial, this relic doesn't really add anything to do.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Then idk, just play the game. What’s so hard about that? You want to grind tokens, then imagine them. You want to farm fates, get your colourful gems. Tomes for relics literally isn’t stopping you from doing anything else. I’m sure there’s in game achievements you can chase if you need more carrots to chase.

Or just complain more

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Yeah, just spend 5 minutes and some tomes to get your relic, hide it up the back end I guess and pretend you have to do an actual relic quest over the next 2 months to get it. Great idea!!

I'll gladly take tomestones over content that becomes annoying to do once the initial rush is over.

This is really disappointing. You wait months for the next step, and it's identical to the last one. Grinding out relics is rewarding, now they just feel like participation bonuses.

I was really looking forward to a return to the old style of relics, but this is an utter disappointment and just feels lazy.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I'll gladly take tomestones over content that becomes annoying to do once the initial rush is over.

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Except that initial rush is sometimes the highlight of an entire expansion.

In the almost 10 years I've been playing this game, Eureka on content was the most fun the game has ever been. You just need to have enough and repeatable content for the "initial rush" to last long enough for people to do it in a reasonable amount of time.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

I'll gladly take tomestones over content that becomes annoying to do once the initial rush is over.

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so like 90% of content in this game?

I'm both somewhat relieved and disappointed when I find out the acquisition means.

Relieved because it's not strictly tied to deep dungeons (yet), which I was dreading to see. (because I vehemently dislikes deep dungeons)
Disappointed because it's not something that I 'actively' work for. I can just went about my dailies like I've always been doing and I'll acquire whatever relic over time. (how I really miss exploratory zones... ;_; )

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

so like 90% of content in this game?

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If by 90% you mean duty finder content, at least you con complete duty finder content consistently and reliably. The duty finder is future proofed.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

Hot take but I actually prefer this method. Eureka and Bozja took you out of the rest of the game. Granted the ShB relics let you do other stuff besides Bozja, it was still highly specific and included things like deep dungeon with no other non Bozja alternative. No shame to the people who like exploratory zones but this is a welcome change in my opinion. I much prefer the game not care what I do to get the currency then demand I spend several hours doing a lot of something I hate.

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I too enjoy waiting 4 months to do the exact same content I've already been doing, using the same currency I'm already trying to spend on something else. Great content.

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Originally Posted by AvalonBright

I too enjoy waiting 4 months to do the exact same content I've already been doing, using the same currency I'm already trying to spend on something else. Great content.

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I too enjoy being able to go back and do the content in 4 years without obstruction because the content is not reliant on a lot of players presently doing it to be completeable.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Really does bolster the argument that the B team is working on FFXIV keeping it on life support while the main team is busy getting FFXVI ready to ship.

Everything post EW release has been pretty lackluster. (IMHO)

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I was just thinking this. Leading up to Endwalker's launch, I recall a lot of people voicing their concerns about XVI eating into develop time and resources. Hard to argue against that notion given how hollow Endwalker has felt. What's more worrisome for me is if the A team remained on XIV because that means they released stuff like Island Sanctuary in the barebones state that it is thinking people would love it.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I too enjoy being able to go back and do the content in 4 years without obstruction because the content is not reliant on a lot of players presently doing it to be completeable.

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They could just go ahead and buff things properly once a new expansion launches to avoid this issue. Making it so content is stale while current so people can more easily farm it in the future is... not a good argument.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I too enjoy being able to go back and do the content in 4 years without obstruction because the content is not reliant on a lot of players presently doing it to be completeable.

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No wonder we have such a lack of ideas recently. Y'all are always so focused in being able to do stuff solo above everything else, it's kinda ridiculous how you still prefer to play a MMO.

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Originally Posted by Melorie

No wonder we have such a lack of ideas recently. Y'all are always so focused in being able to do stuff solo above everything else, it's kinda ridiculous how you still prefer to play a MMO.

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Where in my post did I say anything about solo? I want the content future proofed so it doesn't have to be the new fancy thing of the month in order to actually do it. If that's solo or with a party I do not care.

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Originally Posted by Melorie

No wonder we have such a lack of ideas recently. Y'all are always so focused in being able to do stuff solo above everything else, it's kinda ridiculous how you still prefer to play a MMO.

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There's a reason MMOs have been in decline. The genre will probably never die, but a lot of people have gone back to preferring things they can do solo while having the option of bringing other people along. This is one (but far from the only) reason you'll find so many people that don't bother to engage with group content in FFXIV - they scratch that particular itch with a Souls or a Monster Hunter. Even Blizzard, the train wreck they are, has noticed the trend and (after hilarious amounts of resistance) begun providing a plethora of options for solo-focused players.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Who the BEEP is "we" exactly? You don't speak for me. I enjoyed the past relics (except ShB to be honest), animus included, a lot more than this garbage. And so did most of the three XIV discord groups I'm still on.

Woop dee doo. More content NOT to grind for! But it's OK, XIV is not a "main" game. This single game costs a monthly subscription, which you could put towards an entire catalog of games in other services. But it's OK! Pay up and don't play the game longer than 5 or 10 hours a month if that. -> This is what people like you sound like right now.

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Not sure if you are in support of or against short grinds. I am against them. It looks like you might have misunderstood my post.

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Originally Posted by TomsYoungerBro

Not saying I like or dislike eureka/bozja, but who is "Everyone"? The playerbase is very vast, so a few people complaining shouldn't be the end all be all. I'm not saying those exploratory zones were the correct implementation, but saying "remember when everyone hated it?" is just straight lying.

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Maybe you were not there. Myself and a tiny minority of other people both in and out of the game were some of the only ones positive about eureka when it was current, I was almost fighting a one man battle on these forums in support of it. Almost everyone booed that I liked eureka and thought I was trolling to say I liked it. Now suddenly more people are positive about it in retrospect - years after the fact, after seeing the alternatives.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Not sure if you are in support of or against short grinds. I am against them. It looks like you might have misunderstood my post.

Maybe you were not there. Myself and a tiny minority of other people both in and out of the game were some of the only ones positive about eureka when it was current, I was almost fighting a one man battle on these forums in support of it. Almost everyone booed that I liked eureka and thought I was trolling to say I liked it. Now suddenly more people are positive about it in retrospect - years after the fact, after seeing the alternatives.

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To add injury to insult those same people bashing eureka are prolly unsubbed by now lmao

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

To add injury to insult those same people bashing eureka are prolly unsubbed by now lmao

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Not I, but at the moment I'm not too far off from unsubbing. lol

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Originally Posted by Melorie

No wonder we have such a lack of ideas recently. Y'all are always so focused in being able to do stuff solo above everything else, it's kinda ridiculous how you still prefer to play a MMO.

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A lot of people just simply like being part of a world in the grander scheme, regardless of whether they elect to partake in the content or the game in a grouped or solo manner.

However, frankly speaking, Xirean is not wrong. Parts of Bozjan Southern Front were so woefully poorly future proofed that they actually needed to go back and hotfix in better rewards, just so people could actually progress their relic. e.g.,

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FINAL FANTASY XIV Hotfixes (Feb. 15, 2021)
・ The number of loathsome memories of the dying obtained upon completion of the critical engagement “The Battle of Castrum Lacus Litore” in the Bozjan southern front has been increased from 1 to 5.
・ The maximum number of Bozjan coins that can be obtained from personal spoils in the critical engagement “The Battle of Castrum Lacus Litore” in the Bozjan southern front has been increased from 26 to 100.
・ Completion of the critical engagement “The Battle of Castrum Lacus Litore” in the Bozjan southern front will now reward mettle and Allagan tomestones of revelation or experience points.

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Neither of these is anything to gawk at or weren't at the time. Sadly, content such as exploratory content always has this possibility. Even more sadly, is frankly, if you were behind or playing catch-up with the relics on Shadowbringers, then it was a fairly abysmal experience.

That is rather disappointing. Another 1500 tomes. Yes Eureka had its flaws and Bozja had its flaws, hell even the HW and ARR had more engaging content than what we have now. Unless all of the "content" is back loaded into 6.45 and 6.55 this will be the laziest and worse relic in ffxiv history.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Neither of these is anything to gawk at or weren't at the time. Sadly, content such as exploratory content always has this possibility. Even more sadly, is frankly, if you were behind or playing catch-up with the relics on Shadowbringers, then it was a fairly abysmal experience.

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There is no denying Bozja's future proofing was poorly thought out. Nevertheless, the solution would be to buff it to compensate or implement a power scaling balance. They would later attempt to do so but not anywhere near strong enough to make palatable.

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Originally Posted by Derio

That is rather disappointing. Another 1500 tomes. Yes Eureka had its flaws and Bozja had its flaws, hell even the HW and ARR had more engaging content than what we have now. Unless all of the "content" is back loaded into 6.45 and 6.55 this will be the laziest and worse relic in ffxiv history.

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Yeah, arr relic, especially light farm was a ton of fun. Spam Garuda hm. Spam more Garuda hm. I think I did something like 800 Garuda gm runs. So engaging.


Book stage. Couldn't just do books, had to spam mythflox to get tomes first. How many tomes was it per book? 1500. Then wait days for a few annoying fates to spawn in certain areas.



HW relic. Spam a1s or a9s. Man, so engaging. Much fun.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Yeah, arr relic, especially light farm was a ton of fun. Spam Garuda gm. Spam more Garuda hm. I think I did something like 800 Garuda gm runs. So engaging.


Book stage. Couldn't just do books, had to spam mythflox to get tomes first. How many tomes was it per book? 1500. Then wait days for a few annoying fates to spawn in certain areas.



HW relic. Spam a1s or a9s. Man, so engaging. Much fun.

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Compared to this, that may as well have been disneyland.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

There is no denying Bozja's future proofing was poorly thought out. Nevertheless, the solution would be to buff it to compensate or implement a power scaling balance. They would later attempt to do so but not anywhere near strong enough to make palatable.

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That's always the risk they play when they attempt to confine a relic to a particular subset of content, or as intertwined to the degree that Resistance weapons were to the Bozjan Southern Front.

There are a good dozen things they can do for the content, but they should not need to hotfix in better rewards for a piece of content in the first place, frankly speaking. I don't know how the Delubrum Reginae experience is now, but last I attempted that back in Nov~ time. I had 2 other people after a 15-minute capped queue and took a further 50 minutes complete, not that I mind this very much, but it doesn't exactly strike me as the most compelling piece of gameplay, contrary to what people might want to elude to.

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Originally Posted by Kosachi

Compared to this, that may as well have been disneyland.

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And yet, with any content, people will find the most efficient path. If there isn't one that's better than another (DR) people hate it.



I can run any content I want to get tomes.

As someone who doesn't really engage in high end content in the form of Ultimates and Savage, I was more or less looking forward to some form of relic grind to keep myself busy for the time being.

While it's nice to have a gear upgrade for essentially not doing anything (already had the tomes with me), I'm left with the feeling there's nothing else to do I'm really interested in.

I was hoping the Island Sanctuary would've filled that casual and time wasting aspect, but it ended up being a glorified retainer venture you check once a week once you have the buildings set up.

I was taking a break when the Criterion Dungeon released, and was surprised to hear that it had a shorter lifespan than Lord of Verminion (it's hearsay, I don't know if that was actually the case or not, lol.)

Resubbed recently to keep my house, and to check if they had added anything interesting. I was a bit disappointed when I felt I was out of things to do after an hour or so of logging in after a several months break.

And yeah, maybe it's on me. I've been around since the ARR Beta, and the game has always had this predictable content formula over the years. However, this is the first time I've felt little reason to play at all. Maybe that says more about me than about the game. I'm mostly talking from my subjective experience.

I'm a little sad that one of the few activities I enjoyed doing was essentially scrapped and reduced to what we have now. I'll probably end up capping the Omnicron and Loporrit Beast Tribes before calling it quits. Never was too interested in Palace of the Dead content.

The only thing holding my interest right now is my house, but I'm willing to let that go if 7.0 continues the trend. More power to the people that enjoy this, though. I think it's natural for older players to move on to different games as new ones come in.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I love the comments blaming players who "asked" for this.

If you're a professional multi-billion dollar gaming company with decades of experience and the best you can do is "farm 1500 tomes" because a handful of players "told you to", you don't deserve customers. You should be capable of making a good game by yourself, like thousands of other gaming companies out there are perfectly capable of doing.

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Here's where you have it wrong. It's not the "best" they can do. It's the safest. They basically said go n do what you want to earn this. This wouldn't be the case if there wasn't heaps of complaints about Eureka and Boz. You're trying to minimize the backlash to make your point by calling it just a "handful" of players. The alternative non zone method was just as popular as the zone method. And the backlash when folks found out they had to still do the zone was great in scope. We get it, you don't like this, but let's not misrepresent the situation

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Here's where you have it wrong. It's not the "best" they can do. It's the safest. They basically said go n do what you want to ear this. Thus wouldn't be the case if there wasn't heaps of complaints about Eureka and Boz. You're trying to minimize the backlash to make your point by calling it just a "handful" of players. The alternative non zone method was just as popular as the zone method. And the backlash when folks found out they had to still do the zone was great in scope. We get it, you don't like this, but let's not misrepresent the situation

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Yeah. I'm not happy about the current situation either, but like a lot of things (housing lottery for example), this was what the player base asked for. Then they act shocked and appalled when the next iteration of something is even less ideal.

I kinda miss the old Books from the ARR Relic honestly.
On the other hand im more than happy that this relic step is so lazy that i have more time playing Wo Long or other great games that will come out this year.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

As someone who doesn't really engage in high end content in the form of Ultimates and Savage, I was more or less looking forward to some form of relic grind to keep myself busy for the time being.

While it's nice to have a gear upgrade for essentially not doing anything (already had the tomes with me), I'm left with the feeling there's nothing else to do I'm really interested in.

I was hoping the Island Sanctuary would've filled that casual and time wasting aspect, but it ended up being a glorified retainer venture you check once a week once you have the buildings set up.

I was taking a break when the Criterion Dungeon released, and was surprised to hear that it had a shorter lifespan than Lord of Verminion (it's hearsay, I don't know if that was actually the case or not, lol.)

Resubbed recently to keep my house, and to check if they had added anything interesting. I was a bit disappointed when I felt I was out of things to do after an hour or so of logging in after a several months break.

And yeah, maybe it's on me. I've been around since the ARR Beta, and the game has always had this predictable content formula over the years. However, this is the first time I've felt little reason to play at all. Maybe that says more about me than about the game. I'm mostly talking from my subjective experience.

I'm a little sad that one of the few activities I enjoyed doing was essentially scrapped and reduced to what we have now. I'll probably end up capping the Omnicron and Loporrit Beast Tribes before calling it quits. Never was too interested in Palace of the Dead content.

The only thing holding my interest right now is my house, but I'm willing to let that go if 7.0 continues the trend. More power to the people that enjoy this, though. I think it's natural for older players to move on to different games as new ones come in.

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Been playing since 1.0 beta and this is exactly how I feel. Only thing keeping me around now is my friends in game. Its just getting too watered down to justify spending money on this monthly. This expac has largely felt like a free to play experience for me