Ok Nabiri, I accept defeat. As this matter is subjective to each individual gamer, everyone observations is different and they have the right to adore or hate whatever feature the game has.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabiri
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07-06-2012, 10:31 PMAndrien
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07-06-2012, 11:28 PMCrystalWeapon
I would love to have exploration involve jumping at certain points. Hidden paths, areas you can get to by jumping skillfully. I would love if the game could have fall damage. If someone tries to jump off something too high have it damage them and their armor to a certain extent depending on the distance of the fall.
As far as combat goes, I wouldn't mind if it were used to dodge attacks/lessen damage and what not, but I don't see it being feasible. Unless the lag is significantly lower in 2.0 you would get hit anyways while trying to dodge, unless you had excellent timing. I would have to definately say no to it being added as a required battle function. If there were any boss that required timed jumping to avoid something deadly it would just be a mess, and it would piss a lot of players off. -
07-06-2012, 11:31 PMHiirNoivl
...Hidden paths eh.... *puffy thought cloud*
Hiir Noivl: Wee jumping on a stump /dance.
Hiir Noivl: Woah. There's a cave up here. What's in it?
Hiir Noivl: AHHHHHHH!
The Devil Cave Demon Bat defeats Hiir Noivl.
/endthoughtcloud.
That's terrible! D= -
07-06-2012, 11:38 PMCrystalWeaponIt could have been a Devil Cave Demon Bat, but it also could have been a gigantic pile of gil and a ferrari.Quote:
Originally Posted by HiirNoivl
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07-06-2012, 11:43 PMHiirNoivlNever happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon
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07-06-2012, 11:45 PMSwordCoheirPretty much agree with the majority of folks who want jumping to stay out of combat, though I wouldn't mind the ability to jump on enemies in a Mario'esque fashion in some mini-game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
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07-06-2012, 11:53 PMEngel
Jumping must stay out of combat, but it should be used in exploration and dungeon gimmicks... my opinion.
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07-06-2012, 11:54 PMRaistlin
i dont get why people is so hard with jumping feature..
Combat use example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GQsa...ailpage#t=232s
i dont see whats the problem using it to evade a ray, a trap, etc.
We want a photorealistic game, but then when we have an option to evade an attack jumping over it..
of course, if a Trunk is comming to me... i jump it.. to survive.. is so hard to understand it? if we want to have the best fantasy-realistic game, stop with 199x game systems. We are in 2012. -
07-07-2012, 12:00 AMTimonLoon
I would like to see jump used as more than just cast cancelling/aesthetics. It should be a gameplay mechanic to traverse the environment and use during battle. Don't implement a mechanic just so you can say "we have that option too". Examples below:
1. Enemy uses timed ground pound move and jumping at the right time will either lower damage taken or nullify completely. Think of it as a temporary Float spell.
2. Jumping over gaps during raid encounters. Think of Diabolos fight from FFXI where the platform below you cracks and drops you into a pit of Diremites.
3. Solving puzzles.
4. Jumping could lower damage from void zones/fire on the ground until you get out of it.
5. With a smooth UI jumping can be used to set yourself up for quick movement. In WoW I tend to jump > spin camera 180 degrees > Use Hunter's Disengage (Jump back move like Elusive Jump) to traverse areas faster or get out of harms way. DRGs in this game have the appropriate move... we just need the smooth UI and jump. Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE99V...ailpage#t=292s
6. Remember that mountain climb in FFXI for the ENM item? Imagine that while jumping. Fun/faster.
Theres literally hundreds of ways for the devs to use this feature.. Please don't just implement it just to have it.
Lastly, I would just like to say directly to the dev that this is the worst forums to be asking a question about jump. People on these forums are too close-minded to see the benefits/uses of such a critical gameplay feature. You want an objective response on what to do with jump? Go on Blue Gartr forums or any other community site. This site is filled with players that are going to play your game regardless of whether or not it succeeds in the future... you should ask this of players that don't play your game currently since they will be the deciding factor on the future of FFXIV.
- Kurokikaze -
07-07-2012, 12:01 AMGemmaQuote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
While I'm one of the few that didn't really want jumping to begin with, I would rather see it done right at least. In my opinion I really don't want jumping in battle, while the thought of jumping to avoid certain boss moves sounds appealing, it really doesn't sound like it would work that great. With server latency, you're really not gonna be able to dodge anything. But getting around obstacles would be fine. Just no crazy high jumping cause that's just silly and not in a good way lol.
I did like the idea however though that it could be used to help further explore certain areas, can't remember who mentioned it. like you only get so far then what's this?! At this ledge you get a ! bubble in your menu, little cs/load time BAM new little area. or something like that. Just as long as its not in battle. I REALLY don't want to incorperate jumping into my battles please ; ; -
07-07-2012, 12:09 AMKhazari would like it to have an use not only aesthetic, maybe any content thing that needs some platforming, like datacrons in swtor... i would keep it out of combat system and use for combat only skills related to evade attacks other than using the jump button- if you would add something to evade attacks from monster add a roll button with cooldown or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
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07-07-2012, 12:24 AMCarzilla
ZELDA 64 JUMP STYLE END OF DESCUSSION!
NO BUTTON MAPPING NEEDED -
07-07-2012, 12:32 AMRaagnar
I would like to see jumping for specific situations on the terrain only. You approach the spot, an icon pops like you are checking aetheryte, allowing you to jump the spot.
Active jumping can be an eyesore (for those wanting a photorealistic game, who jumps around like that irl....?)
Jumping in battle would be bad for this game in particular because of server lag issues. IF squareenix would move servers so the rest of the world doesnt get 2 second delay I would be more open to jumping in tight situations or battle situations. But as it stands( using an example from earlier) box comes at you. you jump but get hit before the box comes close because of lag issues, sounds fun right? -
07-07-2012, 12:34 AMAnapingofnessPersonally, I'd like to see it used in combat as well as getting around obstacles. It'd add a pretty unique function to the jump ability that I really haven't seen in other MMO games that I've played. However, I'd like to be able to use it outside of those situations, more or less as I see fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
It gets kind of annoying being grounded all the time. Restricting jump to specific situations would only frustrate me. "You mean I can't jump down this ledge that is half my height?D=" or some such thing.
On the other hand, any news from the dev team about the ability to swim? The potential for underwater levels and quests is quite strong, in my opinion. -
07-07-2012, 12:35 AMCrystalWeaponYou sure about that?Quote:
Originally Posted by HiirNoivl
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...iroth/cave.jpg
Don't try to smash my dreams of ferrari gil caves of sexyness! -
07-07-2012, 12:38 AMHiirNoivlIt's a mimic.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon
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07-07-2012, 12:39 AMNabiriLOL! :x So..... where is this secret cave?Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon
<.< ..... >.>
That's a keeper.. *saves pic* -
07-07-2012, 12:40 AMBetelgeuzah
Is this an FF game or an MMORPG?
FF games hardly use jumping as more than an aesthetic feature.
MMORPG's often use jumping in a normal gameplay situation.
There's a clash of interests, which is even more apparent when you look at the opinions divided between MMO players and XI/FF players.
Which makes this kind of statement pretty funny though:
"Objective response" = "my opinion".Quote:
You want an objective response on what to do with jump?
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07-07-2012, 12:58 AMChurchillNo jumping in combat, no punishment for falling too far, it's a feature to make running around less boring - not a feature that could potentially make getting somewhere take even longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
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07-07-2012, 12:58 AMPyretta_Blaze
I don't mind jumping if it is just over rocks or to jump down from a modest height. I don't want to have to try to jump in a battle or jump over bottomless pits in a dungeon. If I wanted an action rpg or a platformer I would go play one. I am playing a Final Fantasy game and those don't often use jump at all and I like it that way.
And yes, it is because I suck royally at action/jumping, that's why I like FF games...
However, if there were a few completely optional jumps that lead to easter egg type stuff I probably wouldn't mind but I would probably have my 15yr old son come do the jumps for me :p -
07-07-2012, 01:03 AMIveraIvalice
i want to see it put into jumping over some small gaps as some people said and up some environmental places that are designed for it, but i cant tell you how much i would hate seeing people hop there way on top of a building or a tree, thats horrible.
for that reason i have to say put invisible walls if necessary to prevent stupid stuff like this.
i honestly dont know why some people said not to do this since we have invisible walls in game already, its part of keeping order in a game, sure i would prefer without them but in some cases its unavoidable like the paths with bottomless pits bellow you around brokenwater.
aside from that i think jumping without much of a purpose is stupid, why put it in there if its just for that bunny hopper to have his fun. if your going to do something do it right and have a reason for it, thats a common development logic. and since we were actually asked to say what we want jumping to be for and it has previously been stated that jumping is pointless and is only there for those that want to jump, i can tell this was a poor decision on the development team >.>
since were here to fill in the purpose for it im gonna give my input as a game dev, a semi hardcore player and a gamepad user.
i hate bunny hoppers, i would just say have a cool down between when you can use it, since it seems it is already set to a button command in the keyboard im guessing its gonna stay like that. so for the game pad i would say when your not targeting anything, clicking the A or X button, whatever controller your using would let you jump. im talking about the button that lets you quick target things, and just leave targeting to the d-pad.
but once you target something, that button will act as it always has and acts as a selection button for confirming actions and talking to npcs.
i would also like to say that i think it should have some place in battle, i dont want it to be used all the time but in specific situations, for example. when developing the titan primal fight, make a move where he smashes the ground and would make the whole arena tremor, you will take damage if you dont jump to avoid this.
things like that seem like they would have a cool and more diverse purpose. i guess things that are ground related because that would only make sense. other then that i dont think it would work well in everyday standard combat.
i want to finish off by saying that i came to this game for the realism and the immersivness that this game brings above all other mmos. dont forget that this is a final fantasy rpg. its easy to do what every other mmo out there does but dont lose what makes this a final fantasy rpg.
keep it interesting, keep it realistic, have a purpose. -
07-07-2012, 01:13 AMElexiaKeep it out of combat for sure unless you're meaning adding more jumps to DRG. Implementing jump into combat does turn it into an action game which last I read Yoshi wants to actually avoid. If it has to have a purpose, keep it to jumping over fences, granted you guys are reintroducing collision detection in 2.0Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
Dragoon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anapingofness
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07-07-2012, 01:25 AMAsgardx
Honestly, the fact that FFXIV doesnt have jump now was refreshing. I don't care for it. Jumping should only be in MMORPG's if there is a point to exploration of the world. If you guys, as a team, developer hard to reach areas that are secret, hidden by coves / rocks / trees / caves, etc and make them only accessed by jumping then I say go ahead. I don't want jumping in combat / pvp / town. Just exploration uses.
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07-07-2012, 01:31 AMAlhanelemNot seeing a "majority of folks" wanting to keep it out of combat.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordCoheir
It "can be," but it doesn't have to be. Auto jumping sucks, takes freedom away from the player, and requires more programming and scripting. A reasonable jump height coupled with a cooldown means no "jumping around like that" or "bouncing constantly." Regardless, this thread isn't about whether you want jump or not. It's going to be in the game. The question at hand is what level of utility it should offer.Quote:
Active jumping can be an eyesore (for those wanting a photorealistic game, who jumps around like that irl....?)
Action cancelling would be great, exploraiton would be great, evading certain specific kinds of attacks would be great. Evading normal attacks is a nono, that would have negative consequences for PvP in particular. -
07-07-2012, 01:42 AMydp002
Well not sure if this was mention before. Jump could be implemented in combat. Earth quake attack from a boss or a mob. Should have the option to jump from such attack. Just a thought.
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07-07-2012, 01:44 AMLunaChildLet have jumping just for traveling, no for combat and in cities too if possible ( like unable to ride chocobo).Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
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07-07-2012, 01:44 AMjwang
I want:
No more 3 inch ledges stopping me from crossing the terrain in the most expedient manner.
Dungeon exploration which involves some (but not excessive) amount of tactical jumping (Some of SWTOR's datacrons are really fun to get this way).
Gigantic bosses which serve as a combat platform itself, or a rail-style combat course where you have to time jumps to get over obstacles or get power-ups. Something like Shadow of Colossus would be amazing if it could be pulled off. -
07-07-2012, 01:46 AMvaxQuote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
I really don't want to jump being added, but i think it's pretty much a fact that will be in FFXIV, so i hope it will be only to pass obstacles, don't want it to see on combat. -
07-07-2012, 01:48 AMShurrikhanI'd like to see it as a sort of intuitive-conditional use, rather than the simple jumping (usually in place) found in other MMOs. However, this would best play off things like parts of the revamped Black Shroud outskirts having multiple layers of pathable terrain via fallen or crooked trees, smallish holes and tunnels, etc. Something like FF13, minus the huge L'Cie leaps and without being used automatically, perhaps with the player's movement or camera direction determining which jump is used when multiple--and there should, in most situations, be multiple possibilities rather than there being jump points mostly just for aesthetics. The use of Shift or Control paired with the jump can also add control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
I think this will serve to make the world a little more free-feeling. Obvious pairings would be the ability to move off smallish ledges, especially if a sort of sliding mechanic is added. It's always been awkward to me to have to move over to where the ledge is exactly only 4' ft or so, and then appear as if I've simply skipped the frames between the top and bottom. The quality of movement animations have always played a key part in the vividness and freedom that a game world will appear to have.
____________________________________________________________________________
In combat, I would really prefer to see jump as a dodge-closing mechanic more or less unique to its class. The way a Monk moves, in that sort of sliding motion, should be distinct from the way a Lancer might charge or a Dragoon leap, or a Gladiator dive and roll with his shield still held above him. Shift may apply here as well.
Just a quick note, I think this would probably appear smoothest if paired with the slight auto-movement during abilities, i.e. if out of range, rather than the ability being pressed repeatedly until in range, the character can take the few steps forward quickly and strike. Reduced animation locking would also serve to make the entire feel of combat smoother around those implementations. -
07-07-2012, 01:58 AMFlynnRider
Only way jump should is be utilized is for jumping up and down all the damn invisible barriers we have now.
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07-07-2012, 02:01 AMElexia
Well we already know:
Quote:
――ちょっとしたところだったらジャンプで上れたりも？
You can jump and get on some ledges?
吉田氏：できます。
Yoshida: Yes
――それはもうゲームの行動様式が変わりますね。
With that it’s going to change the movement entirely.
吉田氏：それが狙いです。それ前提にマップを全部作り直していますので。
Yoshida: That’s the goal. We are remodeling all the map with that in mind.
――今はちょっとした凹凸でもすごく遠回りしなくちゃいけないじゃないですか。
Right now you have to go all the way around for some bumps
吉田氏：そういったことはまったくないです。ただ、角度で上れるかどうかを判定していますので、見た目60度以上の場所は登れません、とか。それの実験風景なんかも今後プロモーションサイトで開発の進捗にあわせて公開していこうかなと思っています。
Yoshida: You won’t have those. However we are looking at the angle to decide if you can go up or not so if it’s more than 60 degrees you can’t or something like that. We also want to show the testing in the promo site along with developments updates.
――今後は崖をバーッと降りられる？
Can you jump down cliffs?
吉田氏：はい。グラフィックスが壊れない限界までは大丈夫です。道がなければ歩けないということはないですね、もう。ただ、あまりに高いところは、複雑骨折させるわけにはいかないので（笑）、落ちないように柵などを設けるかもしれません。
Yoshida: Yes. As long as it doesn’t break the graphics it should be ok. It’s not where if you don’t see the road you can’t walk. However if it’s too high we can’t have you break all your bones (laugh) so we have to have fence or something like that.
――自由な上り下りという点では逆にキャラクターのスタックが怖いですね。
Bit scary when you can freely move up and down and getting your character stuck.
吉田氏：すみません、そこはもうデジョンかレポートしてくださいという（笑）。もちろん、きっちりデバッグは行なった上
での極論ではありますが、それでも僕はその怖さより自由度の方がゲームは大切だと思っています。
Yoshida: Sorry for that part please just use return or report (laugh). We that’s the conclusion after carefully debugging but for me I think it’s more important to have the game to have more freedom than to be scared.
――このジャンプや飛び降りによって新しいゲーム性は何か加わるのですか？
With this type of jump will there be new game system involved?
吉田氏：僕 は、そこは逆にアクション性はあまり持たせるべきではないと思っているので、やはり表現だっ たり、移動の1つの方法として使っていただければそれでいいかなと思っています。僕は地面に縛り付けられている感じが本当に嫌なので、町の中を走っている 時に、楽しいからずっとジャンプをしていてもぜんぜんいいんじゃないのと思っています。
Yoshida: I believe I don’t want to make it action based so it’s basically for expression or as another method for movement. I really don’t like the feeling of being grounded to the floor , so I think it’s OK to be able to jump for fun when running inside the town.
He doesn't want it too action oriented, so keeping it to getting over obstacles is definitely the only use it should really have, it still serves a purpose and it gives people who wanted jump the jump they wanted. -
07-07-2012, 02:10 AMMetaJump would be great for getting around obstacles or deviations in topography. No need to implement falling damage - this isn't the Elder Scrolls. Limit jumps to a specific height, obviously, but if we can walk there, we should be able to jump to or fall/slide down to the same spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
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07-07-2012, 02:25 AMArcellNot in combat please. I would like to see jump used for terrain navigation though, that would be a nice touch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
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07-07-2012, 02:48 AMHiirNoivlI just got killed by a Demon Bat!!Quote:
Yoshida: Sorry for that part please just use return or report (laugh). We that’s the conclusion after carefully debugging but for me I think it’s more important to have the game to have more freedom than to be scared.
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07-07-2012, 03:39 AMTitochuk-Bosses with simon says aspects(Run, jump, backs to boss)Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
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07-07-2012, 03:40 AMRexSkybornJumping during combat to avoid certain ground based attacks would be cool, but as someone mentioned, this wouldn't work if there was still server latency issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
Outside of combat, there should be some almost platformer style obstacles that just add an extra challenge. For example, say in a dungeon where you have to jump from ledge to ledge to get to the other side, maybe some of the ledges or platforms move or drop out from under you, and if you fall, you have to start back at the beginning, or you fall into a pit of aggressive monsters.
Maybe even certain NM's you can only get to after acsending special cliffs, ledges, towers, etc. Would make it a lot more fun and engaging then simply running to a spot on your map and waiting for a spawn. -
07-07-2012, 03:48 AMTimonLoon
Aside from jump I would like each job to have a way to get in and out danger quickly. Lemme run through some things I envisioned in my head.
BRD - OoT Sidestep/Backflips/Forward jump. Needs to jump a few feet to be useful and can be used every 2 seconds. Backward jump needs to jump farther than the side jumps since its main purpose is to get you in proper range for combo. Think of this scenario: Heavy Shot -> Forward Jump -> Quick Nock -> Backward Jump -> Rain Song. You have hate on a mob you're trying to kill (Shadowbind is on cooldown. A lot of BRDs forget about this move btw): Backward Jump -> Start combo -> Kill mob.
BLM - Short range teleport. This obviously needs a longer cooldown but it would render the caster completely invincible and teleport them forward. About the same distance as Elusive Jump.
DRG - Elusive Jump is already in. They're good. Only thing I can see that would be fucking awesome would be a Super Jump that keeps them in the air for 3-5 seconds thus making them completely impervious to damage. Maybe even Super Jump before primal two hour to avoid it... I mean you could technically do it in older FFs already... Think Garuda (FF3 NES/DS).
MNK - They're agile/nimble so this will make sense... Sidestep around the mob quickly. Would help with getting in position for combos and to get out of a frontal attack.
WAR - Roll. Simple. Or they could go the WoW route and take that Warrior ability where they jump forward and stomp the ground - stunning enemies and gaining agro.
PLD - A roll but when they get back to a standing position it procs a block (animation as well).
WHM - This is the tricky one... What would work? How about the WoW route? They leech a target player and pull them out of danger. lol
I personally would love to see any and all of these in play. It won't instantly turn the game into an action game but it'll give players more options as to how they get in and out of certain situations.
- Kurokikaze -
07-07-2012, 04:10 AMRadnarI like the idea of different types of jumping that depend on class. That sounds cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by TimonLoon
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07-07-2012, 04:47 AMKiote
Jumping should probably be restricted to environmental obstacles. If it is integrated into battle it should probably just be more environmental factors. Using it to dodge attacks will just make for more obnoxious versions of Ifrit cracks.
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07-07-2012, 04:47 AMNoxWhat I will be speaking about in context to jumping takes into consideration that Latency issues no longer exist come 2.0. (As far as I'm concerned this is the whole point of FFXIV 2.0 To make the game Responsive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Okipuit
-Jumping should have no cooldown. Putting a cooldown on such a mainstream feature will piss off old players and new ones alike, and it would make no sense.
Exploration: It is imperative that jumping play a large and extensive role in exploration. I want to get through obstacles (small fences/cliffs). But more importantly, I want to have certain areas only accessable through jump (hidden passages/caves) perhaps even add some lore on the walls of these hidden caves (pictures depicting lore on primals). Stuff like this will make FFXIV feel like a breathing world. Jumping should also help reach beautiful scenery which would normally be missed.
PVE: Jumping should Allow us to avoid ground attacks. One example is the Great Buffalo NM. It is an absolute chore to do this on a Monk because it spams it's AOE ground attack, It is also cake once you get a party of bards/casters and a tank- suffice to say a lot of battles in this game are easier with a ranged setup. Allowing us to jump over these type of attacks will not only make battle feel fluid, but it is one way to balance the meele/ranged issue we currently face.
Boss Stages:jumping would also be effective in Different boss stages where jumping to higher elevations of field is vital to success of the content. A boss fight that either creates poison/fire fields or that changes position (vertically) would make encounters much more engaging, and jumping to avoid those attacks and to move to reach the boss at higher elevations would be fun. It would certainly beat staying in safe spots.
PVP: Jumping in pvp is tricky. You can use jump to hide behind obstacles as some people have mentioned (of course provided archers/casters can no longer shoot/cast through solid objects, such as a wall. Also, jumping in pvp should not reduce damage taken. In my honest opinion jumping in pvp is not necessary. However, this does not mean that the jumping mechanic should be disabled in pvp. That would also make no sense.