VIERA AND HROTHGAR COMPLAINT MEGATHREAD

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

At times like these I really do wish I could read Japanese... I'd like to know what they discuss on the forums or if there's a post similar to this one.

Update: I checked out the Japanese forums and a lot of their posts have replies from moderators... I'm so surprised - are we actually ignored? It'd be nice to have a comment from a moderator so I know we're at least heard.

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We're not actually completely ignored, but there are so many troll threads on NA forums & threads that are seen as demanding & rude that the devs don't waste their time with every one of our posts- only the really popular ones will actually get looked at. That's why people stress keeping similar topics in a megathread that way we might see a response.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

I'm hoping SE dont even so much as think about Female Hrothgar until the current races are up to scratch... We've waited long enough, it's unacceptable to ignore us (again) just to make another race counterpart.

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It's way too far in post history, but I remember saying something to the same tune before male viera happened. I said that if they didn't fix the races we already had before working on the new ones then all of us would suffer from limitation backlog. Lo and behold and all that.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

I'm hoping SE dont even so much as think about Female Hrothgar until the current races are up to scratch... We've waited long enough, it's unacceptable to ignore us (again) just to make another race counterpart.

I do sympathize with SE because when Female Viera and Male Hrothgar were introduced they received backlash from certain people, they actually accused SE of being sexist and god knows what else - so it's probably not something they want to be painted as so understandable. But they clearly don't have the resources to work on two things at once, so genuinely I do think we can wait for Female Hrothgar.

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I understand the desire to fix our situation, but I don't think that would be fair for Hrothgar. Vieras got their missing gender, and now asking to halt Female Hrothgar production to fix these issues seems very one sided. I get that we're not as popular as other races, but come on...

I get that you play Female Viera, and you (probably) don't find the inclusion of Male Viera relevant to your interests, but they are still the same race. I think it's time for Hrothgar to get something too.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

I understand the desire to fix our situation, but I don't think that would be fair for Hrothgar. Vieras got their missing gender, and now asking to halt Female Hrothgar production to fix these issues seems very one sided. I get that we're not as popular as other races, but come on...

I get that you play Female Viera, and you (probably) don't find the inclusion of Male Viera relevant to your interests, but they are still the same race. I think it's time for Hrothgar to get something too.

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You may be content with your severe limitations and paying £5 to change your hair for another 2 years while SE bring in F-Hrothgar, but me along with other people want the issues sorted out ASAP... I really don't see why people think bringing in a gender counterpart is more important than fixing the races we already have.

We were in no rush for male Viera either, while they're amazing additions to the game (obviously) but all SE did was bring in another severely limited race and now they have triple the workload to sort out. Why bring in another unfinished race? And how does holding off Female Hrothgar's release for 2+ years personally affect you and your character?

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

You may be content with your severe limitations and paying £5 to change your hair for another 2 years while SE bring in F-Hrothgar, but me along with other people want the issues sorted out ASAP... I really don't see why people think bringing in a gender counterpart is more important than fixing the races we already have.

We were in no rush for male Viera either, while they're amazing additions to the game (obviously) but all SE did was bring in another severely limited race and now they have triple the workload to sort out. Why bring in another unfinished race? And how does holding off Female Hrothgar's release for 2+ years personally affect you and your character?

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Well, first off, they are not different "races" as you put it. They are a missing part of an already existing race.

Secondly, the way game development works depends all on the workflow. Each company can have different workflows, but the way SE seems to work is that they prioritize putting everything up first, before polishing the details. I'm not going to defend SE over the implementation of Viera and Hrothgar, but I can also understand why they do it the way they do. Imagine if they went back and started fixing these issues, and then stop at 75% of the way, added Female Hrothgar, and then continued where they left off.

Sure, they could do that, but it would cost more time, money and effort in the long term doing that way because it would be an inefficient workflow. Obviously, I'm not a fly on the wall in their office, but from what little I know about game development, as well as what I've talked with the people who are in the field, this seems to be more or less the reason.

I imagine they probably won't make any substantial changes until they implement Female Hrothgar. That way, they can address the issues in one fell swoop instead of having to go forward and back, and then forward and back, in order to fix it later.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

Well, first off, they are not different "races" as you put it. They are a missing part of an already existing race.

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Irrelevant and unnecessary to bring up - you knew what I meant.

Also... Why are you suddenly talking from a business perspective when previously you were just saying how it'd be unfair on Hrothgar? How does holding off Female Hrothgar for 2+ years affect your gameplay and character? Let's be honest here, they're gonna bring in F-Hrothgar, people will switch over to them and when the novelty wears off they'll revert back to being their main race - the limitations get too much sooner or later, they always do.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

Irrelevant and unnecessary to bring up - you knew what I meant.

Also... Why are you suddenly talking from a business perspective when previously you were just saying how it'd be unfair on Hrothgar? How does holding off Female Hrothgar for 2+ years affect your gameplay and character? Let's be honest here, they're gonna bring in F-Hrothgar, people will switch over to them and when the novelty wears off they'll revert back to being their main race - the limitations get too much sooner or later, they always do.

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Well, if I'm being honest, I asked my husband for his opinion as a game developer and he explained to me how it usually works. I'm just as upset as pretty much everyone on this thread, so don't get me wrong. I'd still consider it unfair for Viera to get everything they want, just because the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

You said there was no rush to implement Male Viera, but did you forget the massive thread asking for it? A lot of these requests seem to be emotionally based, and I don't blame them for it. We're all obviously invested in the game and want to see it grow and flourish. I just don't think neglecting one side of the playerbase to benefit the other will do anyone any favor. SE handled this poorly from the very start, and now they are in a lose-lose situation regardless of how they address it. So they might as well make the choice that helps them save time and money in the long run.

I'm VERY interested in seeing what they have planned for 6.1, as I'm sure people are being too optimistic about how they will address the Hrothgar head thing. I stand by my theory that they will simply make 1-2 or more NEW Hrothgar faces/ heads that are uniform (Same Forehead size-n-shape) and have the ability to use some shared hairs and call it a day.

Viera? Likewise, I think it's clear that they realized, "Why TF should we waste time and man power making X amount of NEW unique HQ hair just for 1 race when we can address the cries for shared hair instead?". So in 6.1 I expect Viera to get w/e new hairstyle they give all races that Patch. Maybe they will make more old hairs work in the future, but I wouldn't expect much in that regard even if they did. They've told us many times that Viera would never have the selection size of other races.
So congrats, long time Viera players, you get to be drip fed the same hair as everyone else! (At least most of the Anime Protag hair from that cursed contest has come out already)


I mean, that's just how I see it when looking at the stubby and how they handled Viera. I don't see them making new, unique Hrothgar hair when they're not doing that for the much more popular Viera, and they made stubby a whole default face option Middies have to pay $10 to get instead of diving into face features tab to expand upon it (Hrothgar's hair BS is also tied to their Face Features tab, which is why even the same face can't swap between it's 2 hairstyles, as every head is treated as unique). Seems like it would be far less of a head pain to just make new uniform heads for them that can use shared hair and build the Females on that idea.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

Well, if I'm being honest, I asked my husband for his opinion as a game developer and he explained to me how it usually works. I'm just as upset as pretty much everyone on this thread, so don't get me wrong. I'd still consider it unfair for Viera to get everything they want, just because the squeaky wheel gets the oil. You said there was no rush to implement Male Viera, but did you forget the massive thread asking for it?

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If people knew back then what we know now, people would've pleaded with SE to hold off Male Viera. Barely anyone expected Male Hrothgar and Female Viera to get ignored for as long as they did - we don't deserve to be pushed at the back of the drawer just for playing a race we like. I wouldn't call obtaining Male Viera 'getting everything we want' either, I mean... we're missing hats and hairstyles, why on Earth would we want a gender counterpart?

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

I just don't think neglecting one side of the playerbase to benefit the other will do anyone any favor.

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It's not neglecting anyone because no one is playing as Female Hrothgar, male Hrothgar players don't get anything from having their gender counterpart implemented. Meanwhile if SE starts creating Female Hrothgar and ignores M&F Viera and Male Hrothgar, we're the only ones being neglected.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

I get that you play Female Viera, and you (probably) don't find the inclusion of Male Viera relevant to your interests, but they are still the same race. I think it's time for Hrothgar to get something too.

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Male Viera were made to be less limited than F Viera, but they are held back because they never got to fixing Female Viera. This is going to be what happens to Hrothgar with their F inclusions, bet.

Call me pessimistic, I don't think it's fair to either current players or prospective Hrothgar to do another 2 year wait on updates to their race. Least of all while everyone else gets 4-6 hairstyles in an expansion cycle. Fix M Hrothgar and F Viera, and then we can properly give F Hrothgar a warm welcome.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

If people knew back then what we know now, people would've pleaded with SE to hold off Male Viera. Barely anyone expected Male Hrothgar and Female Viera to get ignored for as long as they did - we don't deserve to be pushed at the back of the drawer just for playing a race we like. I wouldn't call obtaining Male Viera 'getting everything we want' either, I mean... we're missing hats and hairstyles, why on Earth would we want a gender counterpart?

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But people did. Multiple times. Repeatedly. The decision was always about either bringing the missing genders into the fold, or improving the situation for the existing ones. The vast majority of people wanted Male Viera, and here we are.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

It's not neglecting anyone because no one is playing as Female Hrothgar, male Hrothgar players don't get anything from having their gender counterpart implemented. Meanwhile if SE starts creating Female Hrothgar and ignores M&F Viera and Male Hrothgar, we're the only ones being neglected.

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It's easy for people to say that once they've gotten what they wanted. Now that Male Viera is implemented, SE should shift their priorities. That's not fair.

Remember a few pages ago, people kept saying these petitions threads were for both races? Evidently I missed the memo that, whenever people say they are for both races, what they really mean it's for Male and Female Viera. Hrothgar who? Oh yeah, I guess them too.

I'm honestly tired of the hypocrisy behind these threads. I've seen people go as far as saying Hrothgar shouldn't even exist in lieu of Male and Female Viera with full customization, so let's not beat around the bush.

Male Viera got what they wanted, and now it's turn for Female Hrothgar. It's asinine to me people are even considering otherwise. SE already committed on the genders first, polishing later route.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

It's easy for people to say that once they've gotten what they wanted. Now that Male Viera is implemented, SE should shift their priorities. That's not fair.

Remember a few pages ago, people kept saying these petitions threads were for both races? Evidently I missed the memo that, whenever people say they are for both races, what they really mean it's for Male and Female Viera. Hrothgar who? Oh yeah, I guess them too.

I'm honestly tired behind the hypocrisy behind these threads. I've seen people go as far as saying Hrothgar shouldn't even exist in lieu of Male and Female Viera with full customization, so let's not beat around the bush.

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Where's the official statement from SE saying "If people want Male Viera, it's gonna come at the cost of ignoring F Viera and M Hrothgar for 2 years" ? Show me.

Also, there's no need to get defensive when my post is evidently about fixing Viera AND Hrothgar... You know, the ones we have in the game right now? You never answered my question how pushing the date back for female Hrothgar would negatively impact you and your character.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

Where's the official statement from SE saying "If people want Male Viera, it's gonna come at the cost of ignoring F Viera and M Hrothgar for 2 years" ? Show me.

Also, there's no need to get defensive when my post is evidently about fixing Viera AND Hrothgar... You know, the ones we have in the game right now? You never answered my question how pushing the date back for female Hrothgar would negatively impact you and your character.

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Sorry, I was just under the impression when people asked for bOtH gEnDeRs when making the Male Viera request thread, they meant it. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

And to answer your question, me beating a puppy doesn't affect you in any way, but that still doesn't make it right. Implementing Female Hrothgar is what's fair, regardless of how you personally might feel about it. Do you think I got anything from SE implementing Male Viera? Or Female Viera? No. But at that point you just have to suck it up.

I'm tired of these arguments. Feel free to respond, or don't. I've said what I had to say.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

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You're saying that as if I personally made male Viera come into the game lmfao. Look at my posts from early in this forum, I've made it more than clear that I was against SE working on Male Viera instead of fixing the pre-existing issues with our races, my opinion on Female Hrothgar is clearly no different so the whole "Why is everyone against the Hrothgar" argument won't work on me, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

And to answer your question, me beating a puppy doesn't affect you in any way, but that still doesn't make it right. Implementing Female Hrothgar is what's fair, regardless of how you personally might feel about it. Do you think I got anything from SE implementing Male Viera? Or Female Viera? No. But at that point you just have to suck it up.

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Ohhh you're one of those people... Well, all I'm going to say is do you know what else isn't fair? Hrothgar paying £5 to change their hair, and we don't have £5 to continuously switch from Viera/Hrothgar to a more customizable race. I doubt SE are complaining considering they're extorting money out of the limitations which is why we need this fixed now, no more pushbacks. I understand, you're itching to see what Female Hrothgar look like, but we can acknowledge there's something else to be prioritized. Holding off Female Hrothgar is not damaging to anyone considering they're not even playable yet - we JUST got male Viera after we were ignored for 2 years because of it.. That is not okay.

I love how we're fixated on blaming each other for wanting what is considered the bare minimum in other games instead of being fixated on the fact that SE is asking players to choose between two unfinished genders or a single polished gender lol.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Male Viera were made to be less limited than F Viera, but they are held back because they never got to fixing Female Viera. This is going to be what happens to Hrothgar with their F inclusions, bet. .

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I think this is a misunderstanding of what YP said.

Lets run this back, before 6.0 what limits did Viera have? Can't wear hat stuff and could only have racial hair. What's changed? They got shared hair (even if it's only currently 6 styles).

What I think YP was saying was more along the lines of "We figured out how to make shared hair work on Viera females (W/E tech problems were stopping that, IDK) and we built Male Viera with that knowledge!". That doesn't mean everything fits Viera like a glove or that they get all the styles clearly, just that they can now make shared hair work on them.

So basically, what I think he was saying was that MV wouldn't have to wait 2 years for the devs to figure out how to make shared hair work on them like the Females had to (Yes, I'm sure there were people who were expecting MV to have only racial hair on release just like the females regardless of what hair they added to the females in 6.0). It's not a problem they had to "fix" on MV.

As it stands, both Male and Female Viera can have shared hair work on them. 1 had to have some hidden BS worked on to make it happen over the past 2 years, the other was just made with it inbuilt. MV are no less "limited" than FM as both have the same limitations (if they can make 6 shared hairs work on FM then there's no reason to think they can't make some more shared hair work really. Seems more like a cost of time and energy than a case of "Only THESE 6 could work!").

In a perfect world, Viera and Hrothgar fixes would have come in the missing gender rollout; both Male Viera and Female Hrothgar enjoying the freedoms the first two didn't have to wait for. It almost seems like adding the genders is SE's "new customization" bone, totally missing the point that they released races half baked.

Arguing that they should add another half baked character option on the basis of "We are entitled to it" ignores that there are people playing races right now that are actually entitled to serious TLC from the devs. This was said just as often in the M Viera thread as there were screaming just to have them. The latter often claiming it would be my perfect world scenario.

Now here we are. I want F Hrothgar. I am going to fanta to one and have several line sketches ready for character art as soon as we get concrete visuals on their design. If they do not fix Hrothgar before they announce their female counterparts then I do not want them.

When they said that Hrothgar and Viera would not equip most headgear, I thought that they would not adjust EXISTING gear but then lots of new headgear came and Hrothgar can't equip shit, yeah, it's disheartening.
:(

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

I understand, you're itching to see what Female Hrothgar look like, but we can acknowledge there's something else to be prioritized. Holding off Female Hrothgar is not damaging to anyone considering they're not even playable yet - we JUST got male Viera after we were ignored for 2 years because of it.. That is not okay.

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Well that‘s your opinion. I‘ll gladly take no new hairstyles for 2 years for them to release female hrothgar first. I‘d rather they focus on giving us the last missing gender first before working on the character creation in general. Would I play a fem Hroth? Probably not. Still, I hate gender locked races. As someone pointed it out before, it‘ll never be a win win situation.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

Well that‘s your opinion. I‘ll gladly take no new hairstyles for 2 years for them to release female hrothgar first. I‘d rather they focus on giving us the last missing gender first before working on the character creation in general. Would I play a fem Hroth? Probably not. Still, I hate gender locked races. As someone pointed it out before, it‘ll never be a win win situation.

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Then please consider people like me who have been waiting for female Hrothgar (and currently playing the race who has been on that 2year wait). I have waited so long for them. I can happily wait a bit longer for them to do it right.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

In a perfect world, Viera and Hrothgar fixes would have come in the missing gender rollout; both Male Viera and Female Hrothgar enjoying the freedoms the first two didn't have to wait for. It almost seems like adding the genders is SE's "new customization" bone, totally missing the point that they released races half baked.

Arguing that they should add another half baked character option on the basis of "We are entitled to it" ignores that there are people playing races right now that are actually entitled to serious TLC from the devs. This was said just as often in the M Viera thread as there were screaming just to have them. The latter often claiming it would be my perfect world scenario.

Now here we are. I want F Hrothgar. I am going to fanta to one and have several line sketches ready for character art as soon as we get concrete visuals on their design. If they do not fix Hrothgar before they announce their female counterparts then I do not want them.

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Problem is ... there's nothing TO "fix".

Hrothgar and Viera were made this way. It was intentional, regardless of if it was poorly thought out or not. They will simply never have the selection of hair and headgear that other races enjoy. The devs can lessen that pain point, but it's never gonna be on par with the other races.

They figured out a way to give FV shared hair, that tech is being used on MV. We KNOW that 6.1 is when we will see w/e they have for lessening the Hrothgar's pain point on the topic, and it stands to reason that w/e that entails will affect Hrohgals.

They're showing us their solutions to these complaints, doesn't mean everyone will be happy with them or see them as good enough, but it is "the solution" right now as it stands. If they do indeed just make new Hrothgar faces that are uniform and can use shared hair then they would simply do that for Females as that would be the "Welp, if you want to change your hair ..." solution.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

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Ah, this again. There's plenty to fix, considering the product we got was not what was on the tin. Where are those custom hairs? Oh right, Viera got none and they had no intentions of ever giving them to Hrothgar (or at least hoped for a fanta payment)? What about those expansive customization options that would take the place of hair and hats? Last I checked ears for Viera have minimal physics and no other options besides length. Hrothgar get body markings but no options for fluff, scruff, or really anything else?

Giving these races hair is the minimum that we can ask for since it was pretty clear after their debut that they were half-finished. I also agree, wait. I do not want FemHroths until the minimum is met to reach us halfway and Male Hrothgar get their dues.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

Well that‘s your opinion. I‘ll gladly take no new hairstyles for 2 years for them to release female hrothgar first. I‘d rather they focus on giving us the last missing gender first before working on the character creation in general. Would I play a fem Hroth? Probably not. Still, I hate gender locked races. As someone pointed it out before, it‘ll never be a win win situation.

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How altruistic of you. Obviously you don’t care, you haven’t been playing a Female Viera for 2 years straight.

You’re playing a male Viera who’s been a limited race for barely 3 months… Of course you’re going to say “I can wait 2 years” I doubt it phases you considering you’re still in the honeymoon phase.

Even if prior to Male Viera you were another race, at least you like other races enough to play them and switch when you like, Viera’s the only one I enjoy. If it makes me selfish for wanting SE uphold their end of the deal, then yeah I am selfish.. but bare in mind SE agreed to give Viera and Hroth more hairstyles before they made the ridiculous decision to bring in the gender counterparts.

You hate gender lock? I hate unfinished races more.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

How altruistic of you. Obviously you don’t care, you haven’t been playing a Female Viera for 2 years straight.

You’re playing a male Viera who’s been a limited race for barely 3 months… Of course you’re going to say “I can wait 2 years” I doubt it phases you considering you’re still in the honeymoon phase.

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Well yes. I‘ve been waiting for male Viera since you got to play as a female Viera, been asking for them to be implemented since day 1 and I stand by my point. Gender locked races to be finished up first and then fix issues with current races is still more reasonable to me.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

Even if prior to Male Viera you were another race, at least you like other races enough to play them and switch when you like, Viera’s the only one I enjoy. If it makes me selfish for wanting SE uphold their end of the deal, then yeah I am selfish.. but bare in mind SE agreed to give Viera and Hroth more hairstyles before they made the ridiculous decision to bring in the gender counterparts.

You hate gender lock? I hate unfinished races more.

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And this is okay, I guess? Everybody is selfish. I‘m really thankful for the dev team including male Viera first and hopefully continue to do so with Female Hrothgar.

Do I think limitations suck? HELL YES. My viera has really grown on me, and I don‘t really see my self phanta back to my old race. I‘ve been eagerly waiting for them to be implemnted since the very first support thread for vieras (both genders) emerged.
I‘m just really happy after 2 years to at least be able to play as one! And I think it would be just fair to give the people who have been eagerly waiting for Fem Hroth the chance to play them after (probably) 4 years.

As a side note, can you please stop making assumptions of people you don‘t know? I‘m open for any discussion, but phrases like „obviously you don‘t care“ don‘t add much to the discussion.

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

As a side note, can you please stop making assumptions of people you don‘t know? I‘m open for any discussion, but phrases like „obviously you don‘t care“ don‘t add much to the discussion.

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Okay - sorry. We’ll leave it at that and just agree to disagree.

No more discussions in this thread in regards to Female Hrothgar being implemented before the current race's fixtures, it‘s irrelevant considering this is supposed to be about playable characters that already exist in game. Whatever SE decides to do is up to them. I’m aware I was originally the one who brought it up but I genuinely didn’t expect so many people to get upset.

SE boo boo'd by doing the things the way they did, that being the release of two limited and gender locked races. The only realistic way to go on from this point is to finish what they started and add female Hrothgars and then fix the problems that comes with these two races. As someone who switched off Hrothgar when I found out they have so many limitations, I'm waiting for them to fix the races before I switch back, and that said, I still know it's better for them to release female hrothgars first THEN fix the limitations for all four of them at the same time, that's efficiency.

Threads like these end up usually being an emotional echo chamber of people crying over things not being perfect, I get it, it sucks, and it's good to keep the conversation going, but just be aware that things won't be fixed in the order you want them to be. They're going to add female hrothgars, then we'll start seeing these limitations begin to be removed. The fact that male viera came out before these limitations were fixed is a prime example of what SE's game plan is.

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Originally Posted by Colten822

I still know it's better for them to release female hrothgars first THEN fix the limitations for all four of them at the same time, that's efficiency. They’re going to add female hrothgars, then we'll start seeing these limitations begin to be removed. The fact that male viera came out before these limitations were fixed is a prime example of what SE's game plan is.

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Dude, what did I JUST say?

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Originally Posted by Colten822

They're going to add female hrothgars, then we'll start seeing these limitations begin to be removed. The fact that male viera came out before these limitations were fixed is a prime example of what SE's game plan is.

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That's a full four years of Hrothgar being locked to Fanta barber services. I get it, I do. Gender lock is a terrible thing for a game to push, especially in a game where you're limited (or at least pushed towards) only using one character. They may just do as you say, and as I said earlier, finishing the races insofar as genders is SE's version of new customization. This is isn't efficient in the workflow unless they ship out after they have set the benchmark for how much customization each race will get.

You've got a deck with no support beams, but attaching stairs to it before stabilizing the structure. The support beams will come soon, please look forward to it, but be warned it's going to be a wobbly experience. I just do not want to fanta to FemHroth and then Please Look Forward To It.

Edit: Sorry Sherlotta :( I'm bitter that suddenly people care so much about femhroth that they believe current races have to be ignored.

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Originally Posted by SherlottaEryut

Dude, what did I JUST say?

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Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean you can dictate what I say, remember what I said about echo chambers?

I think the topic of female hrothgar is very relevant to the conversation of why we have so many limitations.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

That's a full four years of Hrothgar being locked to Fanta barber services.

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This is sucks especially, and a quick fix would be allowing hrothgars to change faces for free, but due to either spaghetti code or the backlash they would get, they seem to be more comfortable with keeping the status quo.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I just do not want to fanta to FemHroth and then Please Look Forward To It.

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Yeah that's probably gonna happen, my best guess is that they are already doing a lot of work behind the scenes on all races to release it as one big patch allowing them to advertise it as a big event, something to perk up the shareholders rather than making a bunch of improvements over many patches.

Money reasons aside, I can see them wanting to do it all in one big go for testing reasons, because in a game that crashes the whole server if you fish in the wrong spot, I'm sure they have very weird ways of adding content.

So again, as much as it sucks, this is how it seems it's gonna be, though I would most certainly welcome Koji Fox to float down using his large majestic wings and give me a flick on the nose and tell me otherwise.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Problem is ... there's nothing TO "fix".

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Ahem....Hrothgars having to dish out real money for a fantasia to switch to their one other hair

Thats a Big freaking problem if I've ever seen one >_>

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Originally Posted by Akimori

Ahem....Hrothgars having to dish out real money for a fantasia to switch to their one other hair

Thats a Big freaking problem if I've ever seen one >_>

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I think there's confusion about what people see as a problem and what people THINK people are talking about as problems. Re-reading a few pages made me realize many people here are not on the same.. page (I'll see myself out soon).

No hats and modern aesthetics are fine, imho. THAT is part of SE's design, and I approve of them holding a vision. The problems are that we never got the other shoe to drop to make up for this, and a host of other oversights. I'm sure a lot of it was due to crunch. Making a new race is a daunting task, and they were NOT ready for ShB's launch, but had to ship anyway. Remember that Hrothgar weren't fit to show for the first Fanfest alongside Viera? I don't fully subscribe to the idea that this was intended for Part 2 viewership. Chopping up the jobs and races would have sufficed. I just don't think they were ready.

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Originally Posted by Colten822

Yeah that's probably gonna happen, my best guess is that they are already doing a lot of work behind the scenes on all races to release it as one big patch allowing them to advertise it as a big event, something to perk up the shareholders rather than making a bunch of improvements over many patches.

Money reasons aside, I can see them wanting to do it all in one big go for testing reasons, because in a game that crashes the whole server if you fish in the wrong spot, I'm sure they have very weird ways of adding content.

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And speaking of miscommunication, we're basically barking the same tune, friend. <3 I want quality assurance even though I know it's probably not going to fall that way. It's just become annoying that "Quiet for FemRoth!" has become a new rallying cry against Viera and M Hrothgar players asking for their QoL in this thread when I didn't see these faces in the Fem Hrothgar thread. Reminds me too much of people trying to brow-beat in the M Viera thread so long ago (and then brow-beating f Viera and m Hrothgar over how we should be quiet because of the missing bunny boys). We already have a F Hrothgar thread to post in, this thread is for the races that are live, and the derailments to F Hrothgar here feel just like that: derailment.

So apologies if I came across as hostile, it's just been talking in circles in these threads for 2 years leaving me seeing ghosts in thin air.

So is it safe to say that Fem Hrothgar are in some sort of development hell at this point? It's very strange that it's taking this long and we don't even have concept art. Already odd they didn't launch EW with both Male Viera and Fem Hroths as that would've made sense. I'm getting the feeling something is going wrong.

I don't really see why there is such a necessity for the inclusion of a missing gender anyway, and I've said as much in the male viera thread. Just to have it? Regardless of how it will impact the dev's workload? There's a reason they chose female viera and male hrothgar in the first place. If people would have stood more unified in requesting updates to these instead of bombarding SE with male viera requests, I think it would have been more likely we would have got them, and more.

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Originally Posted by Akimori

Ahem....Hrothgars having to dish out real money for a fantasia to switch to their one other hair

Thats a Big freaking problem if I've ever seen one >_>

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Language matters.

That's a problem, it's STUPID af to me and I question why YP would EVER choose to do that ... but it's not "broken" or "unfinished" or something they EVER made it seem like they were planning to address in full before making VM/ FH or any possible new races, it's working completely as intended.
The devs going outta their way to change up their plans and address this in 6.0 and 6.1 is them trying to address the issue and ease that pain point, it's not them "finishing" or "fixing" anything. It's like being upset that your bag of chips is mostly full of air ... that's not a mistake or oversight on the companies part, they meant to do that and if they start advertising "with 20% more chips!" after they add more chips it's not them "fixing" something.

Lets remember, until now SE was saying "Viera will get new hair, but only unique hair!/ Hrothgar will get new hair and faces!". What happened? Clearly over the past 2 years they decided that Viera would be worked on to allow them to use SHARED hair ... it's my guess that that's simply what they're getting now, and new racial hair is off the table. Only recently has YP said that Hrothgar changing hair with 1 head was coming (6.1), up until recently he's been like "Naah, that's CC option yo. But they're gonna get new hair and face patterns!".

So as I see it ... either they ---
1- Make a 3RD VERSION of each/ some/ one of the 4 heads and have the 2 hairstyles and the face features hair extensions combined into some fur pattern option (Pay $10, swap to this head that has the freedom to swap hairstyles at the cost of your extra-bit customization)
or
2- Just make 1 or more new uniform faces that can use shared hair so that they don't have to bother making new Hrothgar only hair. Want to change hair like everyone else? $10 to swap to that head and use shared hair.

Either way, any current Hrothgar out there is gonna be paying something to get this feature, just like the Middies and the stubby imo. Interested in seeing wtf they do ... it's gonna be clear when they talk about 6.1, so there's really nothing to say for the next few weeks but their plans for addressing this pain point will be known soon.

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

So is it safe to say that Fem Hrothgar are in some sort of development hell at this point? It's very strange that it's taking this long and we don't even have concept art. Already odd they didn't launch EW with both Male Viera and Fem Hroths as that would've made sense. I'm getting the feeling something is going wrong.

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I have no idea what you're talking about.
We've had confirmation for over half a year that they're coming "after 6.0". Everything up til now has been about 6.0, we don't even know the direction the rest of the expac is gonna go right now outside some vague stuff like "24men = a story about the 12 .../ Island n Houses!/ new PvP mode". They haven't even really started hinting at 6.1 and onward's content.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't really see why there is such a necessity for the inclusion of a missing gender anyway, and I've said as much in the male viera thread. Just to have it? Regardless of how it will impact the dev's workload? There's a reason they chose female viera and male hrothgar in the first place. If people would have stood more unified in requesting updates to these instead of bombarding SE with male viera requests, I think it would have been more likely we would have got them, and more.

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Hrothgal Popularity will depend completely on their design, their perceived "likely numbers" can only be based on what people think they will look like.
I will agree that if MV stans hadn't thrown a 2-year-long tantrum, then perhaps things would be different for FV and MH right now. (I don't think that FV would have 2x the racial hair they do now or w/e, but perhaps they would have had the time to make MORE shared hair work).

But as it stands, MV are VERY popular, so I think the choice was for the best personally.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Hrothgal Popularity will depend completely on their design, their perceived "likely numbers" can only be based on what people think they will look like.
I will agree that if MV stans hadn't thrown a 2-year-long tantrum, then perhaps things would be different for FV and MH right now. (I don't think that FV would have 2x the racial hair they do now or w/e, but perhaps they would have had the time to make MORE shared hair work).

But as it stands, MV are VERY popular, so I think the choice was for the best personally.

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Yeah, doubtful they would have gotten a huge amount, but maybe their hair issues would have been sorted out sooner, and we could have gotten some racial hairs for them as well.

I always did think they would be popular, considering the outburst for their inclusion. I don't think the choice to implement them so soon was for the best myself, but it was definitely best for SE's bottom line, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Language matters.

That's a problem, it's STUPID af to me and I question why YP would EVER choose to do that ... but it's not "broken" or "unfinished" or something they EVER made it seem like they were planning to address in full before making VM/ FH or any possible new races, it's working completely as intended.

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See, I like yoshi and want to give him the benefit of the doubt because I honestly thing that he slapped that limitation on Hrothgar because of the simple fact that H/V were rushed to begin with. but to say that its working as intended? No. I absolutely refuse to accept that notion because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that this was going to blow up in his face the moment people figured it out

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Originally Posted by Akimori

See, I like yoshi and want to give him the benefit of the doubt because I honestly thing that he slapped that limitation on Hrothgar because of the simple fact that H/V were rushed to begin with. but to say that its working as intended? No. I absolutely refuse to accept that notion because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that this was going to blow up in his face the moment people figured it out

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For real. It seems by all accounts that they had big plans for Hrothgar and Viera. Be it because of time, resources, or just the gold standard spaghetti code they had to take what they had and push it out. One thing that has always bugged me is that it was Yoshi P who wanted the beast race, Viera being just a fan favourite. Not to presume to speak for him, but I don't think Hrothgar would have released like this if there wasn't some internal issue at play.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

For real. It seems by all accounts that they had big plans for Hrothgar and Viera. Be it because of time, resources, or just the gold standard spaghetti code they had to take what they had and push it out. One thing that has always bugged me is that it was Yoshi P who wanted the beast race, Viera being just a fan favourite. Not to presume to speak for him, but I don't think Hrothgar would have released like this if there wasn't some internal issue at play.

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Honestly, even if it weren't Hrothgar specifically (maybe the Lupin or the more dragonlike Au Ra that were teased back in HW), I can say with maybe 85% certainty, if the servers didn't explode with the outcry for Viera, whatever beast race they decided to release would have been released in a way better state than what we have now. As much as I love my viera alt, I do sometimes wish that they community outcry wasn't so great. We probably would have had hrothgals by now and hrothgar wouldn't feel like a race thats still in its Beta stages

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

So is it safe to say that Fem Hrothgar are in some sort of development hell at this point? It's very strange that it's taking this long and we don't even have concept art. Already odd they didn't launch EW with both Male Viera and Fem Hroths as that would've made sense. I'm getting the feeling something is going wrong.

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My main concern with female Hrothgar is still that they're going to make them "sexy". I mean, look at the female Au Ra concept art versus the tiny waifus we got...

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Originally Posted by YukikoKurosawa

So is it safe to say that Fem Hrothgar are in some sort of development hell at this point? It's very strange that it's taking this long and we don't even have concept art. Already odd they didn't launch EW with both Male Viera and Fem Hroths as that would've made sense. I'm getting the feeling something is going wrong.

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There is nothing wrong. They're not a priority right now. Its time for them to address the issues with Viera, now that both genders are in game and given the massive popularity influx of the race. They know what people have been asking for and there is no excuse to delay it any longer.