Are some jobs 'too feminine' in aesthetics?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Female Hyur, maybe, but not Miqo'te. Their ears in particular seem like an afterthought, if they get accounted for at all. They used to, though it's always been extremely hit-and-miss whether the placement makes sense, but I'm not sure if there's been a single new piece released in Shadowbringers that has room for their ears at all.

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That may be true. I never played a Miqo so I don't know the ears problem first hand. Maybe its Female Hyur. Would male total sense.

I just recognised that it was far easier in XI to find gear that fits my Male Character than in XIV. Its easier with a Midlander but with a Highlanders many gear pieces just look kinda off. Not feminine or something like that... must of.... as if it just don't fit their broad shoulders so well.

There's some design decisions that are arguably very strange when it comes to male characters, such as the decision to always forbid Highlander men from having eyebrows that aren't tacked on as face paint. I think it's telling in itself that Highlander women aren't beholden to the same limitations.

I'm hoping that the upcoming addition of Midlander stubble is a sign that we'll see more character customisation options added to the game over time. Ideally I'd like to see a complete overhaul of the system, which may happen at some point...or may not.

Hopefully we see more masculine hairstyles added in Endwalker, too.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

There's some design decisions that are arguably very strange when it comes to male characters, such as the decision to always forbid Highlander men from having eyebrows that aren't tacked on as face paint. I think it's telling in itself that Highlander women aren't beholden to the same limitations.

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I don't think it's about gender favouritism.

From what I've noticed – though I don't understand it either – it seems to be an "anime thing" that the hulking muscle man type characters are often drawn without eyebrows. It's the same archetype that Highlander men, but not women, fit into.

So I don't get why, but it's not just something they're making up out of nowhere to make the men ugly. There's a precedent for it.

I do believe so, however i don't think that it's a bad thing.

I feel jobs & their animations are extensions of our character presentation. FFXIV devs have given us quite a selection in terms of self representation in that regard.

I have never felt there wasn't an issue with my male Highlander Hyur being masculine. As a Dark Knight main & one of my sub jobs being Scholar, most of the jobs i have chosen to level, i feel have been able to represent an older, traveled, experienced, adventurer. Now that we have Sage on the way, i feel the option for healers is simply being added to.

Now we only need a physical ranged DPS that doesn't jump around like a fool.


Mayhap a Hunter?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/72/6d...fe3efa4515.jpg

Melee and Tank = Masculine
Ranged/Mage/Healer = Feminine.

It's pretty simple.

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Originally Posted by Alacran

Mayhap a Hunter?

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I could dig it. While some will dismiss it just because it shares a name with a WoW class (nevermind that it's been in prior RPGs, too), I like the thematic space it could occupy, especially if we don't end up with a gambler or the like. It benefits from both the Marksman and Rogue-ish Bounty Hunter vibes in a way that I think would work well together, especially for those who want something serious-looking without being necessarily excessively edgy.

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Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono

Melee and Tank = Masculine
Ranged/Mage/Healer = Feminine.

It's pretty simple.

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U know y that is false

Ninja/samurai are both femine
And mch kinda isnt.

Also monk is subjectivly both

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Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono

Melee and Tank = Masculine
Ranged/Mage/Healer = Feminine.

It's pretty simple.

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Looking at the key art for each job, monk is a female, and machinist, black mage, and summoner are male.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I don't see the point in gendering things like class animations, graphics, or outfits. Robes have been a gender neutral thing for a large part of human history. Most things that people would call a dress are just robes. Also who cares? this seems silly

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This. I'm seeing some problematic rhetoric in parts of this thread due to gender stereotypes being perpetuated.

Well, remember, masculinity and femininity are in part culturally defined, so it would be a bit imperialistic to only go by one cultural standard. Furthermore, I think everything being gender neutral would be aesthetically very boring and end up leaving us with many outfits that are sort of appealing to everyone but not especially appealing to most people. Not every design should aim to please everyone as aesthetic preference is by nature subjective and niche in its appeal to us as individuals. I for one tend to love designs that are very feminine to my aesthetic lens.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's strange to me that there are a handful of posters eager to try and paint personal preferences in relation to aesthetics as 'insecurity'. I, personally, do not get that impression in the slightest.

I'm gay. I like conventionally attractive men ranging from the classically handsome to the ruggedly handsome. I have very little interest in the idea of playing feminine or androgynous men. Which, again, is a personal preference. It also extends to the aesthetics of animations, character design and glamour design.

I'd rather not see glamour go in the same direction as hairstyles where the majority are either feminine or androgynous in design. I'd much prefer variety and a healthy balance of masculine, feminine and androgynous designs to suit a broad variety of tastes.

I think Shadowbringers has been a bit better on that front and some of the sets made available to healers - such as the Cryptlurker gear - have been a refreshing change of pace to the usual fare. I hope that we continue to see more variety moving forward.

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Well good for you, but to be frank the more you say "I'm not insecure I promise" the more you give the impression that you are.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

Well good for you, but to be frank the more you say "I'm not insecure I promise" the more you give the impression that you are.

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I don't think that is the case at all. It's simply a case of putting a firm line in the sand. If someone isn't fond of particular aesthetics, what benefit is there in forcing that person to like or embrace them? It doesn't take much before such a push makes for quite the slippery slope and leads to more questionable rhetoric.

Furthermore, whether someone is or isn't comfortable in their own self is entirely up to that specific individual to decide in the first place. Not anybody else, especially strangers on the internet who, most likely, come from completely different backgrounds, countries and belief systems.

Who cares it's a game.

Can't you just use Glamour if you don't like the way the job looks naturally?

Dancer may take some adjusting due to... being a dancer and some people thinking dancing is feminine

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

Can't you just use Glamour if you don't like the way the job looks naturally?

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As has come up previously, yes.

Though it'd be nice if SE unlocked a lot of the glamor options to grant a bit more flexibility.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

As has come up previously, yes.

Though it'd be nice if SE unlocked a lot of the glamor options to grant a bit more flexibility.

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I have an Archer cosplay that would absolutely slap if the Alliance Jacket of Aiming could be used with the Althyk Cuisses of Scouting.

It would be cool if WHM had universal clothing like this concept art from Ryan Lee

Trouser/pant instead of skirt

Jacket/coat instead of robe.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...g?format=1000w

Perhaps maybe an alternate flat heeled boot could be supplied in a reward/drop too if your like me and dont want wear heels in combat :)


Credit to the source: http://artbygregthorne.com/ffxv-concept

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

Can't you just use Glamour if you don't like the way the job looks naturally?

Dancer may take some adjusting due to... being a dancer and some people thinking dancing is feminine

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Yes, but it kind of sucks when you have to keep glamming over your class's Artifact gear.

AF armor? Yes and no. Jobs like SCH and RDM reduce the female model into a Spirit Halloween brand "Sexy <job>". It's eased out by glamming over it, and you don't wear AF for long, anyway.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Yes, but it kind of sucks when you have to keep glamming over your class's Artifact gear.

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I've actually used the DNC af since release because to me nothing looks as good, at most I just changed the pants with something jet black to go with the rest of it. Not quite a fan of the EW one so I may just keep using the ShB one, I like it that much.

Glamours are like hairstyles in that sense. Sure, "if you don't like it, don't use it", but that also means while some may enjoy their new hairstyle every couple months, others who don't like braided ponytails or Karen bobs can only wait and cross their fingers to eventually get something different.

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Originally Posted by Izar_Chillen

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...g?format=1000w
Credit to the source: http://artbygregthorne.com/ffxv-concept

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I've seen this one a few times and really like it, but it'd probably be "too much like SCH", since WHM seems to be locked to nun aesthetics - that doesn't stop dungeon/tomestone/raid/pvp gear to look like that though

I don't want masculine looking clothes on my female characters.

If I wanted to wear pants I'd glamour something on(like I am now) or play a class that uses pants instead of a robe. Casters in robes is something that's existed in fantasy since way back when.

Some of you guys won't be happy til we're all wearing suits and ties.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Yes, but it kind of sucks when you have to keep glamming over your class's Artifact gear.

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I glam over it because SCH gear looks ridiculous.

They push the schoolgirl uniform aesthetic and while it looks okay, I don't like how I look in it.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I've actually used the DNC af since release because to me nothing looks as good, at most I just changed the pants with something jet black to go with the rest of it. Not quite a fan of the EW one so I may just keep using the ShB one, I like it that much.

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I like the DNC AF gear but not the color unfortunately. I use the Neo-Ishgardian Aiming top and I like the show the legs so I do use the AF legs. But I'm a WHM main and I can't remember the last time I actually used the AF glam. It sucks because I'm a Thighlander but I do not like the frilly look on her.

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Originally Posted by Imora

I glam over it because SCH gear looks ridiculous.

They push the schoolgirl uniform aesthetic and while it looks okay, I don't like how I look in it.

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I glam SCH over on the main but I've used that AF on my kitty alt because she could wear a paper bag and look adorable.

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Originally Posted by Imora

I glam over it because SCH gear looks ridiculous.

They push the schoolgirl uniform aesthetic and while it looks okay, I don't like how I look in it.

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https://i.ibb.co/NTzb4mf/SCH.png

I have wonderful news, the Endwalker SCH armor is frickin slick looking, I can't wait to get it myself. (and yes, that is a female character in the render)

I would kill to get the FFXI AF3 Mage AF gear (WHM BLM SCH RDM) they were really killer designs. The fur trim for RDMs, the Goetia Hat and body piece for BLMs, the hood for WHMs and SCHs lab coat looking set. I just hope if we get a FFXI 20th anniversary collab we get some cool glam from XI if that's ever a thing.

I just want proper armor for mages. Like actual mail/plate armor. We are fighting gods with thin dresses/robes like why? I know the SE doesn’t believe in casters with armor but it makes sense since we are constantly fighting deities, dudes with guns/spears/swords, dangerous monsters.

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

https://i.ibb.co/NTzb4mf/SCH.png

I have wonderful news, the Endwalker SCH armor is frickin slick looking, I can't wait to get it myself. (and yes, that is a female character in the render)

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This is how it should be done. Gearsets that are designed around the theme of its class rather than the gender of the wearer.
I think this is also the first SCH set to not have stockings/thigh highs/skirts for females.

Femininity is completely arbitrary and a socially constructed idea.

Also, femininity is good. The game cannot have too much femininity.
I'm glad to have more feminine options and features in the game, not less.

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

I just want proper armor for mages. Like actual mail/plate armor. We are fighting gods with thin dresses/robes like why? I know the SE doesn’t believe in casters with armor but it makes sense since we are constantly fighting deities, dudes with guns/spears/swords, dangerous monsters.

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Yea some of us wanna get some decent options to live our best ExDeath and Golbez glam vibes.

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Originally Posted by EirolOcarrol

Femininity is completely arbitrary and a socially constructed idea.

Also, femininity is good. The game cannot have too much femininity.
I'm glad to have more feminine options and features in the game, not less.

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Not if it looks awkward on big race...

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

https://i.ibb.co/NTzb4mf/SCH.png

I have wonderful news, the Endwalker SCH armor is frickin slick looking, I can't wait to get it myself. (and yes, that is a female character in the render)

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Pants! Freaking pants on female AF armour! YES! Female AF armour (and a lot of armour in general) tends to disappoint me since they usually have short-shorts/skirts/frills for no reason other than woman, which, as a woman, annoys me. Look, it's fine for others that like that aesthetic, but I'm not crazy about it myself, and I still remember how disappointed I was years ago when I finally got my DRG AF armour... and it has that stupid "stab here to kill" window on the abdomen. What. The SCH set though? Nice.

The lack of the iconic Kain stance for female DRGs will forever disappoint me....

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Alpheus

Yea some of us wanna get some decent options to live our best ExDeath and Golbez glam vibes.

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Well, now that you mention it... YES.

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

Not if it looks awkward on big race...

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I've seen a Japanese Twitter user who has tried to make their male Roegadyn as feminine as possible, long hair, dresses, blush, ect., and I think they're awesome for doing so!

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

Pants! Freaking pants on female AF armour! YES! Female AF armour (and a lot of armour in general) tends to disappoint me since they usually have short-shorts/skirts/frills for no reason other than woman, which, as a woman, annoys me. Look, it's fine for others that like that aesthetic, but I'm not crazy about it myself, and I still remember how disappointed I was years ago when I finally got my DRG AF armour... and it has that stupid "stab here to kill" window on the abdomen. What. The SCH set though? Nice.

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I was excited about it as a male player myself because of the slick military commander vibe but I get some excitement at the knowledge that they finally gave female scholars pants after all the years of schoolgirl shorts.

There are definitely some cases where job gear and animations feels gendered, most obviously with healers skewing feminine and tanks skewing masculine. But in general I feel like in terms of design most gear is not explicitly gendered, but it IS generally designed to fit slender or more feminine physiques. XIV's gear tends to looks good on characters with wide hips and narrow waists. That covers most of the female races but also a few male races like Au Ra and Miqo'te, who do actually look good in most gear. Males with thick waists like Roes and Highlanders look kind of goofy in most gear, like it is stretched onto their body instead of resting on it naturally.

Overall though it's not something that bothers me a lot and rather than think of gear in terms of masculine/feminine I would prefer if they just tried to implement a wider variety of aesthetics and designs so that more looks are possible. There's a lot of gear in the game that looks very similar to other sets and I wish they would branch out and experiment more.

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Originally Posted by PangTong

There's a lot of gear in the game that looks very similar to other sets and I wish they would branch out and experiment more.

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This!!! One of the arguments for gender locked gear is more variety, but tbh all I see are the same 3-4 cuts for male and female characters (oh wow, a whopping ~8 styles!! :/) used on repeat.

SE really needs to shakeup the fashion department.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Are some jobs 'too feminine' in aesthetics?

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No.

/em Tosses popcorn in the Microwave.

Long answer have you ever seen a Catholic Priest? Have you ever seen a Buddhist Monk? I wouldn't call their looks "feminine" and if you think it is, than that is a "you" issue and not a "we" issue.

examples:
Catholic Priest

https://i.imgur.com/PgH53jt.jpg

Buddhist Monk

https://i.imgur.com/uNrXMpG.jpg

Islamic Imam

https://i.imgur.com/EVhIvmt.jpg

Shinto Priest

https://i.imgur.com/pAobwVJ.jpg

Let everyone wear what they want, unlock gender locked outfits. But more important to me at least is the hair clipping into some outfits. I really like the look of a red mage outfit but any long hair clips into the collar and it just looks funky. So I ended up using a glam to make it look like the beginner red mage outfit. Some of the detail on the armors is amazing but the clipping issue ruins the look for me. I feel eventually the gender locked stuff will unlock but the clipping is really annoying.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

Pants! Freaking pants on female AF armour! YES! Female AF armour (and a lot of armour in general) tends to disappoint me since they usually have short-shorts/skirts/frills for no reason other than woman, which, as a woman, annoys me.

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Exactly. They wanna do a skirt, fine. Do a skirt for both genders. If they wanna do pants, do pants for both. Don't put females in skirts just because we're female or males in pants just because they're male.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Exactly. They wanna do a skirt, fine. Do a skirt for both genders. If they wanna do pants, do pants for both. Don't put females in skirts just because we're female or males in pants just because they're male.

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What I’d love even better is that when they create two appearances, both can be obtained by both male and female characters. This is obviously easier with gear bought with currencies, I can see issues with dungeon drops or job quest gear etc. But anyway, I usually prefer simplicity, less or no frills, and pants. But I also greatly enjoy seeing the more frilly, sexy glams around even if they are not my personal cup of tea to glam into. In that sense I’d love an option where both are available, esp when there’s a ‘girl’ and ‘boy’ version from the get-go.

Fending and melee pants should also turn into short skirts on female characters.