[Critical] Male Viera height slider; tall option. Show your support.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

They already decided or you think they decided?

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Yes it's been decided. Those models were made a long time ago. I'm sure gear doesn't stretch from lala size to Roe by using a slider. You're welcome to push your version of what you want but you're not going to get a special slider for male Viera. The devs also have a vision of what height they want them to be and not have eveeryone zoom them from miget to tall cause you want it to be so.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm in the same camp!

There's a lot of things I'd like to see in regards to character customisation though it's seemingly set not to be updated any time soon. For example, I'd really like to see the stubble used by the Warrior of Darkness in promotional footage as an option in-game for Midlander men. I'd switch back immediately if that happened.

If we're not getting that anytime soon, though, then I'd like the new playable option - namely male Viera - to appeal to conventional beauty standards.

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I'd love to see them update the game engine and be able to do things like that. I don't know if they have that in the cards but if they want the game to go another 10 years it would be nice.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Exactly. The issue has been decided already. They aren't going to put out a special slider for them or any other race. Some want short others want tall. Regardless of the decision they've made some won't be happy. I'm in the camp of same size or slightly taller so we'll have to wait and see how that works out.

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I’m still of the mind they could potentially have a more varied slider similar to femroe, but that’s it. At base they’ll most likely be same or taller and if people are lucky they can customize it to be shorter. Other than that i don’t see them sacrificing their own thoughts and ideas just to make a few people happy.Just be glad we got them in the first place.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

...Regardless of the decision they've made some won't be happy...

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This inability to be happy is a weird western trait. It was said on anoher MMOs forums a long time ago, the Developer could give each player $100 and some would still complain.

A week ago nobody thought we could ever get bunboys! Now we have them on the horizon. I am so happy for that. I am so happy for the new DC, I am so happy for the talk of the new zones and the new dungeons and the wrap up of the story. It's all awesome.

The height slider has been decided by the devs, work is completed. Arguments that short bunnies are only wanted by perverts won't change anything. We can hope there is a slider choice to suit everyone's dreams. I certainly do.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

They already decided or you think they decided? Last time they added new races I remember how far off they were from actually finishing them. Further, this expansion is 6 months away; there's no real way to say that they hard locked the height slider when Endwalker isn't anywhere near release. It reminds me of when people said the decision to make female Viera and male Hrothgar was an unbending decision and how 7.0 is the earliest we'd see them. Predictions about what can be changed really have no standing now that we were just shocked with male Viera.

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You have to keep in mind, they need them ready for the Benchmark(which is usually a couple months before release.) So it’s pretty fair to say it’s already decided and they’re basically done with them maybe just needing to mess with gear stuff.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

This inability to be happy is a weird western trait.

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How so?

Besides, the English speaking forum is understandably mostly made up of Western players.

Somehow I doubt it would go down well if I ventured to the Japanese forum and presented their views as a weird Eastern trait.

So, can I interpret the "Critical" in the thread title as in "time-sensitive"?

Because if it is, then yeah, whoever supports this better cross fingers that devs look at this before the race finalizes in EW. You've all heard many times how adamant Yoshi is about not going back to fit body frames to tens of thousands of gear assets so yes, this is critical

It's cute how some of you have decided that your desires are simply "what the devs want" and anyone who has different taste is some "degenerate fetishist" when none of us know what the devs' intent is.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Yes it's been decided. Those models were made a long time ago. I'm sure gear doesn't stretch from lala size to Roe by using a slider. You're welcome to push your version of what you want but you're not going to get a special slider for male Viera. The devs also have a vision of what height they want them to be and not have eveeryone zoom them from miget to tall cause you want it to be so.

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Everything that's not in live servers is a work in progress, this is not me saying it, this was their disclaimer right after the Endwalker trailer ended stated. A female Roegadyn-like height slider doesn't affect gear, having to redo them, or any of that fashion; nor is anyone suggesting a "midget to tall" height slider like you're suggesting. As for your last sentence, never say never, male Viera should've taught you that much. Female Roegadyn is an example of a special slider, and it might as well happen here as well.

You should be pushing for such a slider considering that you might not get a short male Viera either if some male Elezen/male Hrothgar comparisons to male Viera are accurate.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

So, can I interpret the "Critical" in the thread title as in "time-sensitive"?

Because if it is, then yeah, whoever supports this better cross fingers that devs look at this before the race finalizes in EW. You've all heard many times how adamant Yoshi is about not going back to fit body frames to tens of thousands of gear assets so yes, this is critical

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It took long enough but it took a fellow Roegadyn to figure it out.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Yes it's been decided. Those models were made a long time ago. I'm sure gear doesn't stretch from lala size to Roe by using a slider. You're welcome to push your version of what you want but you're not going to get a special slider for male Viera. The devs also have a vision of what height they want them to be and not have eveeryone zoom them from miget to tall cause you want it to be so.

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This is partially true, they have 6 months until release, but not all that time will be used on viera, in IT development you need a wide margin for testing and fixes, I have no doubt that the height is already set, is needed to work on animations and gear.

This doesn't mean that touching the slider is impossible, models and textures can be stretched to some extent, but this will not allow for miqo or roe bunnies tho, just a few cm/inches in both directions.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

You have to keep in mind, they need them ready for the Benchmark(which is usually a couple months before release.) So it’s pretty fair to say it’s already decided and they’re basically done with them maybe just needing to mess with gear stuff.

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This is a very good point I didn't even think about, with the bench we can reduce deadline in 1 month (benchamrk is usually month and a half before release, but I don't think they will be fully ready and tested after the benchmark).

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Originally Posted by Good_Haro

Personally, I think it's pathetic that the mere suggestion of having one playable male race that might max out slightly shorter than (or at exactly the same height as) their female counterparts is driving some people up the wall. You could play literally any other race in the game if that bothers you. What about players who want the opposite dynamic? What if I want to tower over every man for once? I literally don't get that option with female characters in this game––even maxheight femroes can't be taller than their male counterparts. If you think being "forced" to play a character who might be shorter than the opposite gender of other members of their race is so appalling, how do you think people who play female WoLs feel?

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Originally Posted by glitteringcosmos

THANK YOU. Heavens above, thank you. Let us have at least ONE race that steps away from stereotypical masculinity. If you wanna play a race that has males taller than females, play one of the 6 other races that ALREADY HAVE THAT.

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I mentioned this before, and I'll write it again.

The idea that males being shorter than females isn't the problem.

The problem is that there are players, like myself, who want to play as a tall, handsome male character. So far, when it comes to tall options, only Elezen fits the category. But Elezen's proportions can be off-putting.

Just like how female Viera was a nice, new option for people who want to play tall, elegant female characters, we are hoping that male Viera can be an option for those us who want to play a tall, handsome character.

The thing is, max height female Viera are actually not that tall. They're only 4 inches taller than max height Midlanders. If max height Male Viera ends up shorter than max height female Viera, that means male Viera would be similar to Midlander in height.

This is the part where people are disagreeing. Some believe Midlanders are average height, so a male Viera who's only 2-3 inches taller could be considered a tall race.

And then there are those of us who say that Midlanders are actually below average in height. We say this because Midlander is shorter than a large majority of the male races.

It has nothing to do with stereotypical masculinity or anything like that.

It's about giving players, like me, who enjoy playing tall male races, another option that we can enjoy.

Because right now, our only tall "pretty boy anime protagonist" option for males is Elezen.

Hrothgar, Au Ra, Roegadyn, and Highlander are all either too bulky, bestial, etc.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

There's already multiple options for that. You can slide the height slider on various playable races down to the minimum point and make use of the more androgynous/feminine facial features to design a character to suit that aesthetic.

If someone wants to be a tall, fairly well-built and classically handsome male character however the number of options are limited by comparison. In no small part because the likes or Roegadyn and Hrothgar are oversized in the view of many, Elezen men have odd proportions (as evidenced by being not very popular in this game despite the Elven races in other MMO's being among the most popular player choice), Miqo'te are quite short...and so are Midlander men as well. Then, of course, there's Highlander men who have no real option for eyebrows and their faces leave a lot of be desired.

So, yeah - I'm happy with the direction chosen for male Viera and I'm not at all interested in the idea of them being short for the sake of being short. A good compromise would be for a weighty height slider that allows for both 'sides' to be appeased but that has been suggested many times already in the various other threads devoted to the topic of male Viera.

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This! 100% this!

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Originally Posted by Hunky

The problem is that there players, like myself, who want to play as a tall, handsome male character. So far, when it comes to tall options, only Elezen fits the category. But Elezen's proportions can be off-putting.

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How on earth is 6'3" not tall? What planet are you living on? Also, if you're using anime as a standard, 5'10" is probably the absolute max height you'll see a pretty boy at.

Why not just be satisfied that you got your Male Viera?
Unfortunately they are shorter then the females, but why is that an issue?
Either play them and be happy, or don't. They fulfilled your desire to see what a Male Viera looks like, now why is it not possible to accept the creators design?

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Why not just be satisfied that you got your Male Viera?
Unfortunately they are shorter then the females, but why is that an issue?
Either play them and be happy, or don't. They fulfilled your desire to see what a Male Viera looks like, now why is it not possible to accept the creators design?

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What do you mean they’re shorter? There’s nothing to prove that lol.

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Originally Posted by Good_Haro

when none of us know what the devs' intent is.

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Except Yoshi P equated them to Male Elezen so yes we do know what the intent is.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Unfortunately they are shorter then the females

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That's unconfirmed. I'm inclined to think that the male Viera in the promotional footage were not necessarily set at their maximum possible height. We won't know for certain until the benchmark is out - which isn't likely to be until closer to the expansion's official release date.

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Originally Posted by Good_Haro

How on earth is 6'3" not tall? What planet are you living on? Also, if you're using anime as a standard, 5'10" is probably the absolute max height you'll see a pretty boy at.

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6'3" is tall in real life, but we're talking in-game height.

Male Midlanders at max height reach 5'11".

5'11" is a fairly tall height in real life, but in this game it's not tall.

You have to factor in the fact that male Midlanders are outsized by a large majority of the male races.

Hrothgar, Elezen, Roegadyn, Highlander, and Au Ra are all taller than Midlander.

In fact, the only male races Midlander is taller than are Miqo'te and Lalafell.

If you look at the male height chart for all races, you'll see that Midlanders are way to the right next to Miqo'te.

That's why even though their real-life height is fairly tall, it's not in this game. In this game they would be considered below average.

And pretty boys can be tall, absolutely. They don't have to be short.

Even if the bunnyboys are smaller than female viera, they're still tall! You'll still be a tall handsome man, so don't feel endangered because someone wants to play a girl that's taller than a man.
Are the people complaining even going to play male viera?

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Originally Posted by VacantStare

Even if the bunnyboys are smaller than female viera, they're still tall! You'll still be a tall handsome man, so don't feel endangered because someone wants to play a girl that's taller than a man.
Are the people complaining even going to play male viera?

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I think if such niche aesthetics were popular then we'd see a much higher number of female Roegadyn around than we currently do.

I'm also inclined to think that those of us currently playing a male character are more likely to make the switch over to male Viera compared to those who are currently playing a female character.

That aside, the reasoning proposed can easily be turned around. If male Viera are taller than their female counterparts then the female counterparts are still tall...correct?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That aside, the reasoning proposed can easily be turned around. If male Viera are taller than their female counterparts then the female counterparts are still tall...correct?

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I appreciate you trying to twist my logic, but I'm sticking by what I said. Just let people have something that's slightly different when everything else already matches your wishes of having females smaller than boys.

Despite their real-life heights, this chart shows that male Midlanders are on the shorter side.

Notice that max height female Viera is 75 inches tall, and max height male Midlander is 71 inches tall.

So, if they made male Viera disproportionately shorter (like female Au Ra was), male Viera would max out at around maybe 72-73 inches.

https://i.imgur.com/6fs7qhE.png

72-73 inches may seem tall to you if you only ever play races like female Miqo'te, female Au Ra, male Miqo'te, or male Highlander (which by the way, half of the population chooses one of these four. check the census for each server).

But when you factor in the other races, 72-73 inches is simply not tall. It would be below average.

Some of us really do just want to play a handsome, tall male race. We don't really have a whole lot of options right now.

I'm not asking for male Viera to be made huge, like male Roegadyn or Au Ra.

All I'm asking is that they be proportioned the same way that female Viera are. This means that male Viera would end up being between male Highlander and male Elezen.

And as you can see on the chart, that wouldn't be insanely tall.

I just don't want them to be so short that they blend in with Midlanders and Miqo'te.

Again, some of us do genuinely like to play tall male races (as rare we probably are).

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Originally Posted by VacantStare

Even if the bunnyboys are smaller than female viera, they're still tall! You'll still be a tall handsome man, so don't feel endangered because someone wants to play a girl that's taller than a man.
Are the people complaining even going to play male viera?

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See, I feel like I'm being gaslighted. Am I really crazy for thinking male Midlanders are short?

Is this perhaps a perspective thing? It has to be. I mean, I play tall male races in almost every game. It's a personal choice (I like the representation). So maybe the reason I see male Midlanders as being short is because my Elezen's always taller than them.

Anyway, just to add a final note. I personally do not have a problem with females being taller than males. I love tall female races, absolutely. Whenever I see a female Roegadyn in the game, I do an inner cheer.

I don't mind being shorter than the few female Roegadyn I encounter. And I look forward to being shorter than the female Hrothgar that are coming out.

It really has nothing to do with this sexist, anti-tall woman thing. I totally embrace tall women. But I also enjoy playing tall male races that are conventionally handsome and not bestial. Male Elezen is the only one that does that right now. Male Viera could be another nice option for us.

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Originally Posted by VacantStare

I appreciate you trying to twist my logic, but I'm sticking by what I said. Just let people have something that's slightly different when everything else already matches your wishes of having females smaller than boys.

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It’s not really twisting when it is exactly what you said. I don’t know why it’s even a conversation really when Yoshi P himself already said they’re akin to Male Elezen. It just sounds like people trying to convince themselves at this point that it isn’t true.

You all keep saying "niche" but midlander and miqote are the most popular choice for male characters (with lalafell coming in third). I don't think you'll feel "comparatively small" if they're female Viera height since everyone around you is apparently "tiny". FFS

If anything, all of you playing the gigantic races are the "niche".

edit:

I see we are now fighting over variables of mere inches. You are all such babies. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

https://media.tenor.com/images/3a0b0...1c89/tenor.gif

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thats how i feel about the release date, and it hurts even more knowing why they picked it xD

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

You all keep saying "niche" but midlander and miqote are the most popular choice for male characters (with lalafell coming in third). I don't think you'll feel "comparatively small" if they're female Viera height since everyone around you is apparently "tiny". FFS

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How much of that is down to their facial features compared to their height? Xaela and Raen men are also growing in popularity lately. I alternate between Midlander and Raen men because so far, they're the only options that really appeal to me. The other options are either too small or have other major flaws. Highlander men don't have eyebrows, so even if I like their physique I can't design one to my satisfaction. Roegadyn and Hrothgar are overly bulky. Elezen have odd proportions (which is obvious given that the Elven equivalent in other MMO's is usually among the most popular picks in regards to playable races).

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I see we are now fighting over variables of mere inches. You are all such babies. :rolleyes:

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makes me nostalgic When females were revealed and same arguments occurred "tall amazon bunnies" "small loli buns"

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Originally Posted by Theodric

How much of that is down to their facial features compared to their height? Xaela and Raen men are also growing in popularity lately. I alternate between Midlander and Raen men because so far, they're the only options that really appeal to me. The other options are either too small or have other major flaws. Highlander men don't have eyebrows, so even if I like their physique I can't design one to my satisfaction. Roegadyn and Hrothgar are overly bulky. Elezen have odd proportions (which is obvious given that the Elven equivalent in other MMO's is usually among the most popular picks in regards to playable races).

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To be honest, I think most people don't care enough about something that is only so readily apparently on a side-by-side comparison graphic. I think most people want to play characters that look like their idealized self (which is very important to more people on a one-character mmo), and that is why human characters are popular. While I'd say the character uniqueness in 14 is piss poor, Au Ra men are more on the "inhuman" looking side of the scale, which turns people off.

Not to mention their animations are terrible.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

makes me nostalgic When females were revealed and same arguments occurred "tall amazon bunnies" "small loli buns"

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We have this same conversation every bunny-race release, comrade!!~!!

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

You all keep saying "niche" but midlander and miqote are the most popular choice for male characters (with lalafell coming in third). I don't think you'll feel "comparatively small" if they're female Viera height since everyone around you is apparently "tiny". FFS

If anything, all of you playing the gigantic races are the "niche".

edit:

I see we are now fighting over variables of mere inches. You are all such babies. :rolleyes:

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Feel like the babies are the ones who aren’t accepting the fact Yoshi P already said they’ll be tall. They’re going to be taller than Female Viera. The sooner people accept that the sooner we can stop filling up threads with unnecessary banter.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Feel like the babies are the ones who aren’t accepting the fact Yoshi P already said they’ll be tall. They’re going to be taller than Female Viera. The sooner people accept that the sooner we can stop filling up threads with unnecessary banter.

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No, this is still really funny.

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Originally Posted by Rasler_Heios

I don't plan playing it if it is smaller than the female.

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Full quote in the name of full context:

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Originally Posted by Rasler_Heios

I prefer the male viera to be of same height or taller than the viera. I don't plan playing it if it is smaller than the female. I do support the option to choose whichever height the player wants it to be (short, normal, tall).

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The poster in question is more than happy for a compromise to exist.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Full quote in the name of full context:



The poster in question is more than happy for a compromise to exist.

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They're not compromising, they want male viera to be able to be taller. It's not that hard to just let people have females be taller than males for once.

This is the funniest thread I've read in my life.

If I had my druthers, male Viera would max out around the height female Au Ra.

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Originally Posted by VacantStare

They're not compromising, they want male viera to be able to be taller. It's not that hard to just let people have females be taller than males for once.

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But why does it matter? That’s my question. It’s been this way for as long as mmo’s have existed. It really just seems like some kind of new line of thinking or way of feeling that people feel the need to be pandered or catered to for their very niche reasons. It’s really weird to me people can’t just accept what the dev said, be happy they’re added at all, and be on their way. Why the need to bicker and argue about something that’s already been answered by the head dev.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

But why does it matter? That’s my question. It’s been this way for as long as mmo’s have existed. It really just seems like some kind of new line of thinking or way of feeling that people feel the need to be pandered or catered to for their very niche reasons. It’s really weird to me people can’t just accept what the dev said, be happy they’re added at all, and be on their way. Why the need to bicker and argue about something that’s already been answered by the head dev.

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But YoshiP never said they'd be taller than female Viera. "But they're like male elezen!" still doesn't change the fact that he never explicitly said they're taller, so that doesn't work.
Just let people have something different for once.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

But why does it matter? That’s my question. It’s been this way for as long as mmo’s have existed. It really just seems like some kind of new line of thinking or way of feeling that people feel the need to be pandered or catered to for their very niche reasons. It’s really weird to me people can’t just accept what the dev said, be happy they’re added at all, and be on their way. Why the need to bicker and argue about something that’s already been answered by the head dev.

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"male characters in MMOs have always been taller" is not the banger argument you seem to think it is.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

But why does it matter? That’s my question. It’s been this way for as long as mmo’s have existed. It really just seems like some kind of new line of thinking or way of feeling that people feel the need to be pandered or catered to for their very niche reasons. It’s really weird to me people can’t just accept what the dev said, be happy they’re added at all, and be on their way. Why the need to bicker and argue about something that’s already been answered by the head dev.

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You're 100% right. Your response is actually pretty sobering.

I think a lot of us are just so excited for male Viera that we can't help but to discuss and theorize and make comparisons, and all that.

But like you said, there's really no need for all this debating and back and forth, especially when the conversation is not being productive.

The race has already been made, and all we can do is wait for the benchmark to release to see.

I still stand with my original prediction, that male Viera will be between male Highlander and male Elezen. Can't wait to see if I'm right or wrong!

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Originally Posted by Hunky

All I'm asking is that they be proportioned the same way that female Viera are. This means that male Viera would end up being between male Highlander and male Elezen.

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It's a given they will be. They come to a Hroth's eyebrows.

https://i.gyazo.com/96a261947c6ab007...d5bd4e7e57.png

There will be maybe 15cm of slider each side of this.

I hope that the slider can make everyone happy, and I would totally love to see everyone come behind a "give us a big slider range" argument, rather than "I love classically tall males" or "It would seem weird going from 7 years of playing the size of 50% of the population size to the taller size" - (people who seriously play lala and swap to anything can likely attest to that weird feeling when you swap taller).

Rather than arguing "critical, we must be tall" argue "critical, please make the slider wide as can be" and the most number of people can be happy.

I love the argument that being as tall as Shaq in this game is 'average', and 6'3 is short; a manlet. Like, everything aside, it just cracks me up. I think we need some new comparisons..

https://media.tenor.com/images/9f6f0...9a50/tenor.gif

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Originally Posted by Shibi

It's a given they will be. They come to a Hroth's eyebrows.

https://i.gyazo.com/96a261947c6ab007...d5bd4e7e57.png

There will be maybe 15cm of slider each side of this.

I hope that the slider can make everyone happy, and I would totally love to see everyone come behind a "give us a big slider range" argument, rather than "I love classically tall males" or "It would seem weird going from 7 years of playing the size of 50% of the population size to the taller size" - (people who seriously play lala and swap to anything can likely attest to that weird feeling when you swap taller).

Rather than arguing "critical, we must be tall" argue "critical, please make the slider wide as can be" and the most number of people can be happy.

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If they are indeed as you are depicting, I think that's a great middle ground....considering they would be exactly that. In the middle. And, to be honest, that is what I was expecting anyway. Either way, it's not that big of a deal. They are still tall. If someone is going to toss the race aside because of a few inches then they weren't very interested to begin with. But yeah, I'd obviously support better sliders. No one will ever see me speak out against having more customization options. lol

I'm not sure where people are assuming male Viera are short from. In the trailer, the Orbonne bridge side rails come up to around their waist. Those exact same side rails on the bridge come up to a max height male miqo'te's shoulders (go see for yourself), so they're substantially taller. They seem to be roughly Elezen height, though the height range is impossible to figure out because we have no idea how high up the slider was in the trailer. My guess is they will be slightly shorter than male elezen if you don't count the ears or possibly even roughly the same height as female Viera.

This fits what we know about them anyway. They're a race that doesn't have a lot of dimorphism since males are hard to distinguish from females until they're older. They were always going to be similar heights.

I think folks just aren't understanding the perspective and the relative height of the items in the background. There is admittedly not a lot to go off of there.

Ok the more I read the conversations and the arguments, the more I appreciate this thread because its Hilarious AF
Please, continue. This crap is turning into Gold. It feels good to laugh again with all the chaos in the world.