Please fix the “naked queueing” for Aliance Raids

Not gonna lie, i do this from time to time.

The ARR raids are mindlessly done in like 15 minutes, whereas the SB/ShB raids could take a long while and have wipes/rage quits. I wouldn’t run the raid roulette at all if those were on the menu, so at the very least I am helping people who need to get the mandatory raids done.

That said, the fix is not to remove the cheese factor, it is to lower the ilvl max in the ARR raids to make the mechanics actually meaningful. Most of you young’n’s don’t even know the horror that was Behemoth.

Like LotA should be capped at like… ilvl 90. All raids really should cap at the level of gear they drop.

this is 99% not a player problem. It's not the length it's the reward ratio. Look at the MSQ roulette, people actually want to be queued into the much longer one because the reward is worth the time. It's natural for player to avoid spending 2-3 times the amount of time for almost the exact same reward, when the designers make it like that then any problem arise -exploitative or otherwise- is on the game, not the player.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

this is 99% not a player problem. It's not the length it's the reward ratio. Look at the MSQ roulette, people actually want to be queued into the much longer one because the reward is worth the time. It's natural for player to avoid spending 2-3 times the amount of time for almost the exact same reward, when the designers make it like that then any problem arise -exploitative or otherwise- is on the game, not the player.

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The fault lies with both parties, really.

I enjoy the alliance raids. They're my favorite content in the game. Getting 90% Crystal Tower is really really grating.

People naked-queue into ARR raids cuz it takes significant shorter time to complete for the same rewards. I'm talking about 15-minute of ARR run vs 20 minute run of HW (unless you get into Dun Scaith) vs 25- or 30-minute runs of SB/ShB. Heck, it is even possible to avoid World of Darkness, which can be wipe-prone, and only queue into LoTA or ST by hitting below a certain ilv threshold.



I guess SE has trouble to stop players to strip and queue with false ilv. I think SE should either:


-Using player's level for 24-man raid queue. If they are lv80, they will be available to all alliance raid from 50-80 no matter what they wear. If they wear something unsuitable for their level thus hampering the raid progression, I think it would fit a harassment report. This, however, may make players prone to ditch anything that is not ARR raid, because they don't want to spend much time for the same reward.



-Sync maximum ilv of ARR raids to lower than lv50 poetic tome gear's ilv, but still a bit higher than ilv requirement. This will make the run longer and harder to faceroll compared to HW/SB/ShB raids, making them feel that it is not matter what raid they get queued into, cuz they are all the same length-wise. However, this can also potentially cause distress to players who are already so used to faceroll the ARR raids and have to get used with outdated raid mechanic.

-Lower's boss HP of HW/SB/ShB raid, or adding stronger echo so that these raids also last 15 minutes, thus comparable to ARR raid in term of clear time. Bosses in those non-ARR contents are very HP-spongy, which makes the fight overstays its welcome. Personally, I like this approach, as the faster bosses die, the less wipe-prone the run is. However, I think this is spoiling players a bit too much, and turn any raid into "ARR with different skin".

-Add better exp/tome reward to higher-level raids, so that it is worth the time you spend doing longer raids. Similar to Prae offers more exp compared to Castrum. This is not perfect, however, as people who level alts and don't mind penalty can still quit if they get into ARR and dislike the lower exp reward, like how people immediately ditches Castrum in favor of Prae.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The fault lies with both parties, really.

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They could scale experience I don't see why that is an issue. People are there for the experience and the effort should be equal to the effort put into the duty. They do it with Castrum and Prae and I don't see why different raids tiers shouldn't get more. People wouldn't mind doing them if they were worth the additional effort.

With all my alts I'll take LOTA and ST any day than have to spend twice the time somewhere else but that's me for the same payback.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The fault lies with both parties, really.

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No. If you design a system with the lack of common sense, you can't blame the players for circumvent it. Just like if you design a bad street, you can't blame the motorist for not being careful. Like I said, they did it for MSG, I don't see why it can't be done here.

It needs to be based on your queued class current level, and to stop people from not unlocking more to skip still, if you have a class at lv60/70/80/90 you can't queue into the roulette until you've unlocked the 24man of that level.

Until then people should report anyone who loads into a 24man naked or if you see their HP jump up by a large amount, manipulation of ingame system that gose against the proper design is cheating and reportable

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

It needs to be based on your queued class current level, and to stop people from not unlocking more to skip still, if you have a class at lv60/70/80/90 you can't queue into the roulette until you've unlocked the 24man of that level.

Until then people should report anyone who loads into a 24man naked or if you see their HP jump up by a large amount, manipulation of ingame system that gose against the proper design is cheating and reportable

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It's not technically cheating, though it annoys people to no end seeing CT every day of their lives. That is completely understandable. Don't get me wrong though, having a quick daily boost isn't all bad. But man, I'd love to see some variety. Think I've had LotA 4 out of the last 5 days. That 1 run which wasn't was Dun Scaith, and I never thought I'd be happy to see THAT place!

So, is this why I keep getting the ARR raids when I queue in? I mean, I'm not complaining. I hate the NeiR raids.

Not sure if this has been posted/discussed earlier, but with the (potentially) upcoming changes to Main Quest Roulette, we might see them re-doing those two MSQ duties, and potentially moving Crystal Tower into said roulette instead.

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But the content about the main quest roulette may change significantly after 6.0.
We will be able to talk about the direction after the 6.0 release, so please look forward to it.

https://ff14net.2chblog.jp/archives/58826837.html

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Would fix this issue, tbh.

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Originally Posted by SonjaRampage

Plz leave it as it is...I love cheese.

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It's not "cheese," it's one player hijacking the entire queue and making decisions for 23 others. I gave up on queueing for Puppet Bunker tonight (wanted to run for glamours) after waiting 37 minutes tonight because of this shit.

They simply need to make it so that the exp gains is related to the average completion time of that AR.

Thank you everyone who gets me into crystal tower/LoTA. I am not trying to focus on some 60+ raids when all i want is the experience.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

They simply need to make it so that the exp gains is related to the average completion time of that AR.

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And offer better rewards for the "harder" alliance raids other than gil or generic tomes to get people to want to do them as their daily roluette.

Something that would be useful to some that would be happy to use Alliance Raids as another form of getting something . Reasonable stacks of Crafter Scrips ( if you have unlocked the appraisal thing) , Bicolour Gemstones , MGP credits , Hunts Currency , old removed items that are now lvl 1 glams , that new mount/minion crate we get for trading in GC seals . On top of what we already get for the daily.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

This is all assuming that people who do itemlevel cheesing would do alliance roulette if it wasnt possible. I wouldnt be so sure about that tbh.

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I definitely wouldn't, that s it until they make the roulette rewards scale based on the duration of the content (and also provide said rewards if the duty fails, which is a real possibility in Ordonne Monastery).

While I've gotten LotA or Syrcus literally every day since Endwalker ...
EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Has had the new player bonus.
There likely are peeps naked queuing - I've even seen some people zone in naked, despite your destination being locked when you queue, not when the queue pops - but it's not the issue.
The "issue" is that CT is the only required raid, so it's going to dominate the roulette. Forever. Until SE decides to split it off.

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

I can’t believe people are seriously defending this

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A good number of these selfish players seem to be around here it seems.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

While I've gotten LotA or Syrcus literally every day since Endwalker ...
EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Has had the new player bonus.
There likely are peeps naked queuing - I've even seen some people zone in naked, despite your destination being locked when you queue, not when the queue pops - but it's not the issue.
The "issue" is that CT is the only required raid, so it's going to dominate the roulette. Forever. Until SE decides to split it off.

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It had no reason to be made MSQ-mandatory in the first place, the reason Yoshi said he made it MANDATORY was so the players doing 5.3 understood the backstory .. of course the Echo was a perfectly good mechanic to achieve that for players who loathe raiding .. was entirely specious.

capping the ilvl to 90 wouldn't help, because e.g our 1 2 3 combo tripled over the expansions and accuracy changed to a damage stat.
Its old content there is no reason to make it a challenge again.

Ironically since the expac dropped I've been getting a ton of SB raids, some HW and only three or four ARR ones. And one ShB one.

I'd rather get the ARR ones because I've ran all of them to death and I'd rather spend as little time as possible to get the same amount of exp.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

They simply need to make it so that the exp gains is related to the average completion time of that AR.

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Especially considering that after the stat squish, level 70 content seems to take much longer, while level 50 content is much quicker.
I would adjust the roulette EXP reward as follows based on the level of the raid:
50 -20%
60 +20%
70 +40%
80 +60%

That should stop people cheesing to get CT, because CT won't be the most efficient source of EXP anymore.

Here is a very easy fix I made during my lunch break and I'm neither a game developer nor a multimillion company:

- If job level > 50 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 50
- If job level > 60 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 175
- If job level > 70 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 305
- If job level > 80 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 435

That way, every expansion milestone you guarantee that the player will at least have to queue for the 1st raid of that expansion + all previous raids.

Since this topic is from way back in 2020 and nothing has been done about this very easy to fix in 10 minute problem we just have to assume the devs don't care about this and exploiting the system is allowed.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Here is a very easy fix I made during my lunch break and I'm neither a game developer nor a multimillion company:

- If job level > 50 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 50
- If job level > 60 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 175
- If job level > 70 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 305
- If job level > 80 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 435

That way, every expansion milestone you guarantee that the player will at least have to queue for the 1st raid of that expansion + all previous raids.

Since this topic is from way back in 2020 and nothing has been done about this very easy to fix in 10 minute problem we just have to assume the devs don't care about this and exploiting the system is allowed.

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Yup,The fix is super easy ,you need minimum Ilvl base on your level to queue for duty.that’s it.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Here is a very easy fix I made during my lunch break and I'm neither a game developer nor a multimillion company:

- If job level > 50 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 50
- If job level > 60 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 175
- If job level > 70 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 305
- If job level > 80 -> minimum required Ilevel for queueing in Alliance Roulette = 435

That way, every expansion milestone you guarantee that the player will at least have to queue for the 1st raid of that expansion + all previous raids.

Since this topic is from way back in 2020 and nothing has been done about this very easy to fix in 10 minute problem we just have to assume the devs don't care about this and exploiting the system is allowed.

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Ah, cant wait for the complaints "I'm new to FF. I'm waiting now for 3 hours in a queues for Crystal Raids to progress my MSQ. Fuck this Game sucks" :D

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Originally Posted by Asgon

Ah, cant wait for the complaints "I'm new to FF. I'm waiting now for 3 hours in a queues for Crystal Raids to progress my MSQ. Fuck this Game sucks" :D

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?????????????????

reread my post. With the very easy fix I mentioned, if you are, say, level 80 you will still get queued to Crystal Raid. Plus also get queued to any of the other raids that currently have 1+ hour of wait time if you are a tank.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

?????????????????

reread my post. With the very easy fix I mentioned, if you are, say, level 80 you will still get queued to Crystal Raid. Plus also get queued to any of the other raids that currently have 1+ hour of wait time if you are a tank.

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You assume that after your suggested fix, everyone would still queue for alliance raid roulette. That's by no means guaranteed.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

You assume that after your suggested fix, everyone would still queue for alliance raid roulette. That's by no means guaranteed.

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I agree. If they don't adjust the experience awarded fpr the higher level duties many won't run the roulette. That is the fix that is needed rather than trying to play around with ilevel and forcing people into duties that run long and reward little. It's really not that hard a concept to grasp is it?

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I agree. If they don't adjust the experience awarded fpr the higher level duties many won't run the roulette. That is the fix that is needed rather than trying to play around with ilevel and forcing people into duties that run long and reward little. It's really not that hard a concept to grasp is it?

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I do roulettes to help fellow players not for my own personal gains. If I needed EXP I would gain it without using exploits. That must be a Balmung thing

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Originally Posted by jamjeeshoul77

By people doing this, they are in increasing the queue times for later raids for new players, directly making the experience worse. They are also EXPLOITING an unintended loop hole in the game mechanics. PLEASE fix this. I’m so tired of getting Labyrinth and then seeing selfish people on chat smugly saying “it worked!”

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Wait... so there's a way to not get the significantly longer raids when going for alliance roulette?

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Originally Posted by lezard21

I do roulettes to help fellow players not for my own personal gains. If I needed EXP I would gain it without using exploits. That must be a Balmung thing

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Wow what a shining beacon of virtue. I'm sure I can 100% take your word on that. Why dont we just remove all rewards from all roulettes and see what happens.

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Originally Posted by ijuakos_xqwzts

Wait... so there's a way to not get the significantly longer raids when going for alliance roulette?

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If you lower your average itemlevel below what would be required to enter an alliance raid, the roulette can not put you into that raid because you dont meet minimum required ilvl. You can lower that ilvl to below what is needed even for world of darkness. Then the roulette can only give you either syrcus tower or LotA.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

I do roulettes to help fellow players not for my own personal gains. If I needed EXP I would gain it without using exploits. That must be a Balmung thing

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Sorry don't buy it. You're an outlier if that's this case but I don't believe you. Exploits? You mean some who adjust ilevel for alliance that's not to say it's a given for other roulettes but I suppose you run those to help too and not for the rewards. You can propose your staggered ilevel fix but not address the real issue. That's your choice but if SE does address this issue I suspect they'll do it differently from what you suggested and be sure to adjust the experience rewards.

And not sure what Balmung has to do with it. I have toons on Crystal (Balmung, Malboro and Mateus), Chaos, Aether and Mana. My main is on Siren. Guess trying to use an alts home as an excuse to get around the real issues in the debate are to be expected from someone from Louisoix.

I rarely do alliance roulette because it's always one of the Crystal Tower raids. I never liked those to begin with. If I could get a later one, I'd be more likely to queue.

They definitely need to fix the Alliance Roulette. It's hardly a roulette when you get put into Labyrinth or Syrcus Tower 6 out of 7 runs.

Kupo, when I go in to battle I put on my robe and wizard hat. <3 kupo hehe

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Originally Posted by Adeacia

I rarely do alliance roulette because it's always one of the Crystal Tower raids. I never liked those to begin with. If I could get a later one, I'd be more likely to queue.

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It's funny, near the end of Shadowbringers(like the last 2 months before EW early access), I rarely got Crystal Tower. I've only done 3 alliance roulettes since EW started, and I've gotten Rabanaster n the 3rd or 4th, and Labyrinth once and World of Darkness once. If I get another Crystal Tower tonight, I will likely skip it until the new alliance raids release.

i might actually run Alliance Raid roulette if it was Alliance Raid roulette and not crystal tower roulette, at this rate they might as well make an MSQ roulette style queue for Crystal tower's set of things and then post HW ARs in their own queue

this is your new player experience against players who have been playing since the beta.it would not be fair for players who have been playing WAY LONGER than you to have their experince ruined because of player like you. either create a party or do what every incredibly late player does and suffer the queue time. there is not a 24 man allaince you can't get in you are just too impatient to wait for a queue that takes longer than 10 seconds.

I only get crystal tower because thats what I got unlocked.

Oh and copied factory. And i got that the last time I did AR andhated it

I was pleasantly surprised when I did Alliance roulette the past few days. Not once did I get a CT raid. I got Nier twice, Void Ark once and Ivalice a few times. I personally blame it on requiring CT for MSQ but I also greatly dislike those who exploit this. I've always believed those who click on the roulette should be required to be the minimum ilvl of the first in the highest series raids they can access. For example if you're starting RPR/SGE at 70, the Alliance roulette wont allow you in unless you're at minimum ilvl or higher for Rabanastre. If you're 60, same deal except the required ilvl would be the minimum for Void Ark.

That would eliminate the ability to exploit just a bit.

In addition though, dont yall think since CT is required for MSQ that it should be moved to MSQ roulette? Just sayin.