Aggro Icon

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Originally Posted by MHB3000

Its called Yalms lol.. Just add a toggle button.. It has been awhile.. but didnt FF11 have a question mark next to the name of new players?.. indicating them as new to the game? and that was able to be toggled on and off?

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New players in FFXI had a big red question mark next to their name, which disappeared after a certain amount of time played. It could be turned off sooner, but once turned off it could never be turned back on.

I am in favor of a system where you cannot tell whether the monsters will attack you on sight

I am in favor of a system where those monsters on average would be 10 ranks/levels above the area's average.

I am in favor of a system in which you can run faster for a short period of time to get away from a monster that attacked you.

I am in favor of a system in which you run slower as you lose more HP.

I am in favor of a system in which you are severely punished for not learning basic coordination and common sense navigation. This is detrimental to other endgame players who have to hold your hand and add 20~30 minutes to an endgame event because you can't learn common sense.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

That's different though, who wants to go around talking to every npc.. or better yet, who has the time to?

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In FFXI you had too, they didn't have any markers showing who had quests/missions for players. It was also necessary to run around and do it because it raised the players standing within the cities. People had to make time to do it or players couldn't access higher quests/missions that needed a higher standing in the cities. I'd love to see something of a rank system in FFXIV's cities and more missions/quests added in, I always enjoyed them.


On topic:

I will agree with many others... the icon is confusing and at first I kept thinking it was part of a mission or leve. I learned within a week or so of starting this game what mobs to avoid and what was aggressive, it's not too hard to learn and I don't really see the necessity in having that icon next to its name.

If they don't want to take it away I'd at least like a toggle on/off as others have said.

I'd be happy if they gave us the option of turning it off.

One of the things I enjoyed about FFXI was learning which mobs to avoid when running through zones. I mean sure it was annoying when you first thought that Wespe wouldn't attack turns around and kills you and when you'd learned that the Death Jackets you'd been trying to avoid for ages turned out to be non-aggro, but you would learn from it. Now its just too easy... No one needs that much spoon-feeding.

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

In FFXI you had too, they didn't have any markers showing who had quests/missions for players. It was also necessary to run around and do it because it raised the players standing within the cities. People had to make time to do it or players couldn't access higher quests/missions that needed a higher standing in the cities. I'd love to see something of a rank system in FFXIV's cities and more missions/quests added in, I always enjoyed them..

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THIS ISN'T FFXI, what don't people understand about that?

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

THIS ISN'T FFXI, what don't people understand about that?

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how about it was made by the same ppl.
alot of the same ppl who played 11 play 14.
14 was developed with the idea of fixing flaws that were made early in 11(altho admittedly they ended up only fixing a few flaws and made a bunch of new ones).
pretty much exact same races but with funnier names(Mi'qote? seriously?)
I could probably go on but thats all off the top of my head.

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Originally Posted by Sirrush

how about it was made by the same ppl.
alot of the same ppl who played 11 play 14.
14 was developed with the idea of fixing flaws that were made early in 11(altho admittedly they ended up only fixing a few flaws and made a bunch of new ones).
pretty much exact same races but with funnier names(Mi'qote? seriously?)
I could probably go on but thats all off the top of my head.

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Bethesda made The Elder Scrolls and Fallout.. You expect The Elder Scrolls to have an ability to pop off people's heads by slowing down time? Nooo I don't think they would do that.
And I think Miqo'te sounds better imo especially with the names they use.. Y'shoda and what not.

I don't mind it personally but I can see why some would. It does take some sense of danger away from the world I think. There are pros and cons to both sides but if I had to choose I would have them remove it and not hold a players hand too much.

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

Bethesda made The Elder Scrolls and Fallout.. You expect The Elder Scrolls to have an ability to pop off people's heads by slowing down time? Nooo I don't think they would do that.
And I think Miqo'te sounds better imo especially with the names they use.. Y'shoda and what not.

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So, you think Skyrim will have slow-motion head decapitations? Sounds cool.

j/k, duck and (Run Away!)

I'm kinda new to MMOs in general, and as I didn't bother to read the entire thread, just the initial page, I don't know if it's been said already or not, but this really just strikes me as an attempt to look 'pro'.

Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody likes playing a game where they have to explore this huge game world for hours on end with the danger of suddenly getting one-shotted by some absolutely evil creature and sent back 20-30 minutes worth of running around. Given the current Anima system, which can easily be depleted early-game in the interest of cross-country leves, that just makes it all the more harder on the new players; especially if they do not see what it was that killed them and it happens more than once. Then they wrongly learn just to avoid an area completely, as apparently, they aren't wanted there.

Now, maybe you rank/level fifties enjoy walking by Big McOneshot Sir Killyou monsters without knowing they will do so because you have high stats, a large variety of skills and super expensive equipment that mitigates it to maybe two or three hits, but I can easily see this turning someone off to the game.

You may try to say that the big, bad, holocaust monsters look the part.

No. They generally do not.

In most RPGs, especially Final Fantasy games, each area has monsters around a certain strength level. Some of them look bigger and meaner than others. They may or may not be harder to kill and deal more damage than the smaller, less intimidating creatures.

Only in the extremely rare case will random monsters be so extremely powerful that it can take you out in one hit, usually, in my experience, they aren't even random - they're indicated by special over-world sprites/models that must be approached and manually engaged by the player. Example: The Weapons sub-bosses from VII.

Aggro icon is a godsend. Giving an option to turn it off, I suppose I can see, but the default option should always be ON, and I can't believe anyone thought it was a bad idea.

I am currently unhappy with the aggro icon because it displays on mobs that are too low to aggro me. I would gladly accept an aggro icon that displays only on mobs that will aggro you at your current rank.

Maybe if it was smaller i would like it, or just the overall name is in red.

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Originally Posted by ARoy

I'm kinda new to MMOs in general, and as I didn't bother to read the entire thread, just the initial page, I don't know if it's been said already or not, but this really just strikes me as an attempt to look 'pro'.

Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody likes playing a game where they have to explore this huge game world for hours on end with the danger of suddenly getting one-shotted by some absolutely evil creature and sent back 20-30 minutes worth of running around. Given the current Anima system, which can easily be depleted early-game in the interest of cross-country leves, that just makes it all the more harder on the new players; especially if they do not see what it was that killed them and it happens more than once. Then they wrongly learn just to avoid an area completely, as apparently, they aren't wanted there.

Now, maybe you rank/level fifties enjoy walking by Big McOneshot Sir Killyou monsters without knowing they will do so because you have high stats, a large variety of skills and super expensive equipment that mitigates it to maybe two or three hits, but I can easily see this turning someone off to the game.

You may try to say that the big, bad, holocaust monsters look the part.

No. They generally do not.

In most RPGs, especially Final Fantasy games, each area has monsters around a certain strength level. Some of them look bigger and meaner than others. They may or may not be harder to kill and deal more damage than the smaller, less intimidating creatures.

Only in the extremely rare case will random monsters be so extremely powerful that it can take you out in one hit, usually, in my experience, they aren't even random - they're indicated by special over-world sprites/models that must be approached and manually engaged by the player. Example: The Weapons sub-bosses from VII.

Aggro icon is a godsend. Giving an option to turn it off, I suppose I can see, but the default option should always be ON, and I can't believe anyone thought it was a bad idea.

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http://fantaji.com/pictures/7628
IDK if you will be able to view it or not, but that doesn't look appealing to me. And it's kinda common sense that a mean looking mob will run you down. I mean when you see a bull-dog or cheetah, do you run past it or go up to and and say 'oh look how many spots you have mr. kitty'

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You may try to say that the big, bad, holocaust monsters look the part.

No. They generally do not.

In most RPGs, especially Final Fantasy games, each area has monsters around a certain strength level. Some of them look bigger and meaner than others. They may or may not be harder to kill and deal more damage than the smaller, less intimidating creatures.

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Did you not read this at all?

To me, all of the monsters in this game look mean, with maybe the exception of marmots/mice/squirrels and now that I've seen them, Ewes and whatever palette swaps they have. The dot on their names and all that crap displaying at once doesn't bother me at all; If you're gonna complain about this, why not complain about name displaying in general? It's one thing for the game to be reminding us that yes, that there series staple is called a "bomb", but when the only difference between thistletail marmots and star marmots is their name and level (now size I suppose) does it really matter? They're all 'squirrels' to me.

bump!! because we need this icon removed. It's dumb.

I think the Aggro icon is ugly. I think they are more subtle ways of indicating a mob is aggro. I don't need a big blazing starburst to show me.

Why not have red text, or no indication unless you click on them.
Most NPC's pulse a glow to show they are highlighted. Why not make this pulse glow red?! Then it is a surprise till you actually manually click on the character.

It's subtle, doesn't get in the way or detract from the game. Doesn't clutter the game UI. It's like /con in FFXI but without the manual method of actually typing the command or reading the result.

The aggro icon is fairly ugly, looks like a sun and does not fit with the rest of the interface...
a small subtle icon, maybe a skull or something would be much better.

IMO no icon needed, it should be a part of the learning experience to find out of enemies are aggro or not.
I rather enjoyed it no knowing...

They should just just make the color of the name red if it aggros and yellow if it doesn't, or something to that effect. The icon is an eye sore.

Donno if it's been mentioned yet, but maybe aggro vs. non-aggro mobs can be distinguished via the dots on the mini-map/radar? Make non-aggro mobs appear as yellow dots and aggro mobs as red dots should work...

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Originally Posted by uomaru

Donno if it's been mentioned yet, but maybe aggro vs. non-aggro mobs can be distinguished via the dots on the mini-map/radar? Make non-aggro mobs appear as yellow dots and aggro mobs as red dots should work...

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Actually, I think that would annoy those who are clamoring for more 'mystery' even more, since that would show us where the greatest concentration of aggroable monsters are and give those who are looking for the easy way through the path of least resistance.

I agree with Skeeter, I'd like to see aggro monsters names in red, and neutral monsters names in yellow. But since I doubt that will happen, I'll take the second option, some sort of icon. I don't care where it goes or what it looks like. It's fine if I have to click on the monster to see it. But please don't remove it.

I don't agree with the argument that all aggro monsters look vicious. And making the game more newbie-friendly and giving it pick-up-and-play quality can only be a plus.

First week of CE launch I took my LS on a guided tour of Eorzea, the most fun I ever had in this game to date. Reason being I was leading and we were on vent, I was all like "I don't think those agro!" *walked by* "OH GOD THEY DO RUUUUUUUN!* only to get ranged for like 9k.

When I explored solo I was taking screenshots of mobs I thought were docile and cuddly only to hit prnt screen and get 1-shot at the same time. THIS is where the excitement of exploring comes from, not so much the beautiful scenery but the chaos that insues on the ground right in front of you.

^Yes. The most fun I've had in the game was when I was level 1 grabbing all the telepoints.

This game F*n holds your hand every step of the damn way by allowing you to teleport to places you haven't physically walked to before. And now there's no adventure in the game at all with that bigass Aggro icon...

There could be this icon in smaller version - next to enemy HP bar when you select a mob.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

I'm not a big fan for the aggro icon. I can understand its purpose for newer players or people that just want to know what enemies aggro or not, but a lot of people (like myself, obviously) prefer the surprise and danger of not knowing what aggros and what doesn't. In addition, when you're in an area that has tons of aggressive enemies, it looks downright ugly to see dozens of red dots all over the place.

Please include an option to turn the aggro icon off, or at least make it more subtle.

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Well first of all I agree with you only that you should be able to turn it on or off. I do not see taking it away completely since as you said it can help new people. There really isn't no surprise of not knowing considering that once you know the first time, you'll know from then on out. Besides I'm one who really doesn't care about finding out. If I don't know, I'd like to be able to check by turning back on the icon rather than asking around the linkshell.

I concur with the motion to add the option to turn the icon on or off.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

I don't agree with the argument that all aggro monsters look vicious. And making the game more newbie-friendly and giving it pick-up-and-play quality can only be a plus.

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Exactly how I feel. While the Veterans may think that the newbies must go through the same trials and tribulations they did. They are really just trying to protect their elite status of being the few, that have rare items, and high level that nobody else has. What they don't realize is this attitude really inhibits newcomers from joining the game.

A MMO that doesn't grow is a dead game. Sure after an MMO reaches a certain population it may be profitable, but it's not our goal to just stay that way.

I'm not saying we need to newbie everything either because there needs to be a sense of risk vs. reward to make a player feel they are earned an item and not just have it given to them!

This is something FF has always excelled at! If not kinda got carried away with it! 20hr drop rates from NM's is pretty crazy but ppl still do it so they can have that ultra rare item.

All in all I think the icon is ugly, we need a more subtle way to tell if aggro. Even if it's just not visible till you select the creature.
It needs to not be visible if it won't aggro you because it's to low of a level because at this point it really isn't aggro anymore. Maybe a seperate icon so you know it will aggro, but your lower level friend may get attacked by it. Maybe a pink name vs. a bright red name.
Would also be interesting that if in addition to it not showing till you target a creature that it stays showing red after you check.

Or they could just bring /con or /consider back. In FFXI I found this to be a pain to type all the time in dangerous areas. So if conning a creatures could be as easy as just clicking or targeting a mob. I'm all for it.

Just my opinion, not anymore important than anyone elses. Not talking about the people that more or less don't care about the feature and are indifferent regarding it because it helps out newbs, but I'm talking about the people that really really ABSOLUTELY want the game to tell us which mobs aggro by icon or any other means = pathetic gamers, discreetly viewed as a joke. Most won't be crude enough to tell you, but they probably think it.

A stupid example: If they added a toggle switch into the game that made you invincible, there WOULD, without a doubt, be supporters of this feature. It would be yet another thread that got riddled with 800 replies with arguments ranging from one end of the spectrum, much like my comment here, all the way to the other end of the spectrum with people labeling dying as a timesink and unnecessary because we have cheat codes in console games.

But you know... I bet most of us would be bold enough then to tell them they were pathetic gamers and it was ruining the game. It's pathetic, no sense in explaining it to you, and no sense in you defending yourself. Just accept that the masses probably view you like this.

I would like to adapt the philosophy of "let me turn it off" to the entire UI. While it's off topic it's still related. I'm all for giving people new to the game in-depth tutorials or "hand holding" them through the process. The inclusion of pop up tooltips is a neat suggestion that I've seen implemented in other MMOs.

I'll use an example from XI as a lot of the players here have played it. In XI, when you started out as a new player, you had this giant question mark above your head. This feature would last for either a preset amount of time, when you reached level ten, or until you turned it off in the configuration menu, whichever was first. Nonetheless, I remember asking some very naive questions to random people by the AH in Bastok and they were able to see that I was a new player and reacted accordingly. It really helped me when I first started out, and I made some really decent friends that lasted quite a long time.

If a veteran player had created a new character, they knew how to turn the question mark off from the get go. By making features toggleable in this manner it's a win-win situation. Make the game easy to pick up and play, then once you are used to it, give us (the players) the freedom to suit it to our tastes. Put a toggle UI feature lock/unlock button in the configuration menu so rookies couldn't accidentally get rid of certain aspects of the interface on accident and not know how to get them back. Better yet, implement it so that when you do figure out where you want everything, you aren't worried about moving certain parts of the UI by accident so you can choose to lock it back down after you have it set.

In my rookie days it was incredibly frustrating when I'd get attacked by aggressive monsters. Over time I learned to adapt, but honestly, if it weren't a Final Fantasy game and I hadn't made some good friends, I may not have spent seven years on the game.

There are a lot of UI things I never use in certain situations:

Mini-Map: Is it useful? Definitely. Do I need it when I don't mind using the larger map? No, toggle it.
SP/Exp bar: Is it useful? Sure. Do I need to know that I'm physical level 50 for the rest of my game life? No, toggle it.
The 4 quick access buttons: Useful? Mouse users, maybe. Controller users? Absolutely useless, toggle it.
Moon Phase: Necessary? Could be for some. Me? No, toggle it.
Send/Receive: Necessary? I could see it being nice to have. Doesn't change the fact that I'm D/Cing, so toggle it.
Aggro icon: Useful when exploring new areas? Yes. Eyesore when you know what's aggressive? Yes, toggle it.
Levequest mob count: Useful? Sure. Can you finish almost all leves without it? Yes, toggle it.
Chat log: Useful? Almost a necessity. During CS's or playing solo? Could make do without it, toggle it.
HP/MP bar: Useful? Same as ^. When synthing? Who gives a hoot, toggle it.
3D battle text on screen: Useful? Same as ^. When one-shotting easy mobs for materials? Not so much, so toggle it.
All the empty slots on my action bar: Good to know? Sure. Necessary? Not entirely, toggle it, why not?
Sidequest indicator on NPCs: Useful? Okay. Could do without it? {Yes, please}, toggle it.
New targeting system: DD's love it? fine. Healers and FFXI vets with controllers? Give it back, and toggle it.


Unimplemented features:
Party member TP bar: Useful? I'd love to see it as an option. Necessary? We've been gettin' along without it, toggle it.
Rookie indicator: Would be nice to see? Aye. Useful for vets with a secondary character? No, toggle it.
Mentor program: Useful? Could be if used as intended. Unnecessary e-peen +10? Most of the time, toggle it.
Distance indicator: "You are too far away from the target" spam? Not so fun. Necessary? Not absolutely, toggle it.

No need to reply to everything listed but in general I would like it if they started building and implementing UI features with a toggle philosophy in mind from the ground up. I thought that's what they were doing from the get go from early dev interviews pre-alpha but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm assuming there is some coding or resource allocation problems when including something like this but I'd imagine that it would be a tremendous boon to help streamline the game for veteran players without leaving newer players to fend for themselves.

Sorry for being off topic, but I think the aggro icon really is a cog that is part of a larger more encompassing problem with the design in general.

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Originally Posted by Galamantyl

I am in favor of a system in which you are severely punished for not learning basic coordination and common sense navigation. This is detrimental to other endgame players who have to hold your hand and add 20~30 minutes to an endgame event because you can't learn common sense.

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What are rookie players doing in an endgame event? Why did the veteran leader invite them? Who is at fault here?

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

What are rookie players doing in an endgame event? Why did the veteran leader invite them? Who is at fault here?

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We can't shake'em, this game breeds them more and more everyday with these stupid additions. This is in no way meant to be an insult, but I'd guess you haven't done many endgame events with large groups of people. It's inevitable to play with people like this.

Anyone that says a toggle option is bad is an idiot.
Apologies in advance for being so blunt but sometimes is necessary.

This ICON is really lame. After about day or two you know what will aggro. Most if not all if something aggroe's you you can outrun it. The icon really needs to go.

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Originally Posted by BadJoeRed

We can't shake'em, this game breeds them more and more everyday with these stupid additions. This is in no way meant to be an insult, but I'd guess you haven't done many endgame events with large groups of people. It's inevitable to play with people like this.

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Then teach them, or don't invite them. If you've taught them well, they won't be naive. If you've taught them well enough and they still choose not to act accordingly, the burden is no longer upon you. Unless you invite them again.

"Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

Anyone that says a toggle option is bad is an idiot.
Apologies in advance for being so blunt but sometimes is necessary.

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It's quite alright, especially considering the disclaimer in your signature. I'm really surprised Spanish didn't make it into the list of included languages. I only speak English and it seems like a given to me.

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

It's quite alright, especially considering the disclaimer in your signature. I'm really surprised Spanish didn't make it into the list of included languages. I only speak English and it seems like a given to me.

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Not quite sure if that is a compliment or an insult D=.
Anyways , while Spanish is very common spoken language , its most in south america (third world countries) + Spain, so it isn't the first time we get excluded .Is not a rare case, especially on the video game industry.

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Originally Posted by Zkieve

Not quite sure if that is a compliment or an insult D=.
Anyways , while Spanish is very common spoken language , its most in south america (third world countries) + Spain, so it isn't the first time we get excluded .Is not a rare case, especially on the video game industry.

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It's neither actually. Sometimes tone is difficult to convey when speaking a secondary language, English especially. If I were an observant poster and noticed your signature, I would take that into account before reacting to a post as if you spoke English as your first language. Regardless, the statement is indeed blunt, but it's still fine by me.

My surprise when it comes to the exclusion of Spanish was mainly from it being so common. Their inclusion of Esperanto in the FFXI opening theme would make one think that Spanish would've been included in XI and XIV. Considering Esperanto borrows heavily on Spanish for the very reasons we've mentioned also adds to my surprise. In the end though it's probably as you alluded to. It's probably just the numbers.

{Really off topic, Sorry}

I agree with this thread, the aggro icon is just ugly.

Square Enix. get rid of this FFFFFFFFF Icon!! We're not a bunch of babies who need to be spoon fed the whole time~~~~