Primal drop system, still no changes?!

Honestly, just make weapons passable via loot list and I'll be satisfied.

Instead of lowering the cost of weapons, they should just make the nut charms and totems 100% drop for wins. I have 26 stacks of dark matter grade 5 on my retainer. It's ridiculous. lol

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Originally Posted by NotoriousZow

Instead of lowering the cost of weapons, they should just make the nut charms and totems 100% drop for wins. I have 26 stacks of dark matter grade 5 on my retainer. It's ridiculous. lol

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Can i haz some? I'm running low lol

They need to completely remove grade 5 dark matter from the loot pool also, I think it pretty crappy to have that drop so frequently when it was added as loot for gatherers.

Grade 5 dark matter is worthless now because there is so much of it being generated by Primal and dungeon runs.

In the same way that world NM and leves drop crafted gear it kind of undermines crafters and saturates the market with these items.

stop the crying... because all of you cried so much they are changing the totem requirement to 5 already in patch 1.22

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Originally Posted by datboycuong

stop the crying... because all of you cried so much they are changing the totem requirement to 5 already in patch 1.22

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Some obviously didn't read the thread /clap

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Some obviously didn't read the thread /clap

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It has nothing to do with him not reading the thread, he is adding his input on replies that people already made, there's nothing wrong with that.

Jinko im not exagerating anything on that, now that theyre droping the totems needed from 10 to 5 asking a 100% drop rate on totems do your numbers 5 wins=1 weapon 35 fights 7/7 so now if you're in a decent party 15 min fights sounds fair, now with the wait time you get 30 min, in one day conecting daily at nights if u work, well i can be 3-4hours conected almost everyday in the week, well in 3 hrs you can get 1 weapon plus 1 totem, now do your mats if i can get 1 weapon in 1 day how many days do i need to get 7/7? 1 week? a week an a half?

They will make the totems/nuts 100% drop but you need like 100 of them.

to anyone who made a comment about having more than a few stacks of DM (grade 5) on your retainers: for the love of all that is holy go NPC that crap!!!! LOL!!!!! i really hope none of you have complained about lack of retainer space... XD

100% totem drop rate is a stupid idea. They'd have to make the requirement so high that'd it just be ridiculous anyway.

Increasing weapon drop rate is a stupid idea. Primal weapons are not supposed to be something everyone gets. If it was, it wouldnt be rare now would it?

All in all the drop rate is fine. What needs to be fixed is the lack of powerful options outside of primal weapons.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

100% totem drop rate is a stupid idea. They'd have to make the requirement so high that'd it just be ridiculous anyway.

Increasing weapon drop rate is a stupid idea. Primal weapons are not supposed to be something everyone gets. If it was, it wouldnt be rare now would it?

All in all the drop rate is fine. What needs to be fixed is the lack of powerful options outside of primal weapons.

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Seriously? Primal weapons are not supposed to be something everyone gets? So only the "right" people get them correct? Come on now, that's a whole lot of smug in that statement.

Why would they need to make the requirement high if the totem drop rate was 100%? You don't think that 20 successful fights is enough? Not everyone has the time or the patience to sit through hundreds of the same fights and wait 15 minutes between them.

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Originally Posted by Frisque

to anyone who made a comment about having more than a few stacks of DM (grade 5) on your retainers: for the love of all that is holy go NPC that crap!!!! LOL!!!!! i really hope none of you have complained about lack of retainer space... XD

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Don't NPC it, give it to me. I'll take gladly take it.

I would rather farm 100 tokens and know I am working my way towards my goal vs. doing the fight 100 times and getting 3 tokens and still needing 2 more... Oh and I with my luck I would have probably gotten 2 swords that my sister wants and I have no use for.

Yelta lol, My brother did that to me, with the help of RNG, he kept gettin the weapons i wanted!

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Hello everyone!

We looked into increasing the drop rate and allowing each party member to receive a inferno totem or kupo nut charm with each winning encounter, but instead of touching up on the drop rate, we decided to make adjustments to the number of required totems and nut charms.

In patch 1.22, the below changes are what we have planned:

• Inferno Totems: 10 → 5
• Kupo Nut Charms: 20 → 10

The reason we decided on this change is because if we changed the drop rate, there would still be unlucky players who would complain that they can't get an item, so we decided to not play with the drop rate and instead just change the amount of items required for exchange for a weapon.

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Unlucky Players.... they always complain without patient!

We need pass system on weapons -

Nothing makes a player feel more unlucky than not getting a single weapon in 150 wins while another member of the party is throwing away their 4th duplicate.

I don't care if they lower the drop rate, just give us the ability to pass.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Increasing weapon drop rate is a stupid idea. Primal weapons are not supposed to be something everyone gets. If it was, it wouldnt be rare now would it?

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Primal Weapons aren't rare anyway.

i still with pofo, alot you guy need to get into a linkshell or make friend and help each other out. If you really want solo it than go play ffxi and solo it on smn other wise get a linkshell or make some friend.

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Originally Posted by yialee

i still with pofo, alot you guy need to get into a linkshell or make friend and help each other out. If you really want solo it than go play ffxi and solo it on smn other wise get a linkshell or make some friend.

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I do have a linkshell and we do work together on Ifrit runs. And each of us have the same abysmal drop rate. Of course I get 8 fragments of grade 5 dark matter so that should sweeten the pot right?

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Originally Posted by elreed

So you want the WoW way? now we have totems or nuts to get a weapon, so you say that just to do it you deserve having all in 1 time? im not saying that i agree that we cant have our drops sooner with a simple and already easy to do fight, hell i would love to have the greed/need system, we would have the drops already if at least we had the loot list give option, but i wont agree with dumbing down drop rates, in games like WoW (i played it for 2 to 3 years) right after a patch is released you only needed to wait 2 weeks to have everything, theres no achievement there, right now if i see a guy/gal with darklight gear i know what theyve done, it feels great having a piece not easily obtained.

When you talk about MMOs you have to talk about time sinks, no dumb ones but some that require time and skill, Sky was even an achievement by itself (i really hope they change the areas of primals more like an unlockable area) you had to do lots of stuff before getting there, then you had to farm items in order to get the NM pop, and then after all that you had to kill it and then if you were lucky you could get a bad ass item, if not you had to do it all over again, and those NMs had several items to get your gear, so there was lot of luck on that, yeah it sucks for some but the content itself was interesting and took time and skill to achieve what you wanted.

If i wanted a game that i can finish in one week or weekend i wouldnt be playing an MMORPG i would be playing an offline RPG, im the type of guy that prefers difficulty over drop rate but in this case i dont think 250 fights is too much im not saying that in those 250 wins there wasnt any drop, there were a lot of drops weapons and totems but not for me, ive played with a lot of people sometimes we wiped sometimes ppl that joined and were doing that fight for second time they had luck and got a weapon that i was looking for. At the end is luck 2 weeks ago we won for the first time Cutters Cry and i got Darklight Caligae some people havent seen any of those drops and done it more times than me....

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What is this...I don't even. 1) I've never played WoW 2) I never said get weapons first time every time. I'd sooner see 100% token drop rate and it takes 50 tokens to get a weapon than the current system (although like I've said earlier I prefer a staggered system with an exchange system in place to encourage people to do the fight once they're 7/7.

Random-ish numbers to demonstrate the stagger thing I'm mentioning; First weapon costs 20, second costs 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50. People can get the weapon they need sooner without infuriating pure luck based systems and people who want 7/7 have to "work for it" as people put it. Totems would be 100% every fight, 1 totem each and unpassable. We could then have an exchange system where people can exchange their tokens for seals or something if they're already 7/7. The weapons aren't handed out like free candy, we don't have to deal with stupid pure luck, and you get to have a time sink for people who want 7/7. What is the problem here?

Also you're suggesting beating Ifrit hundreds of times takes skill. It takes a degree of skill to learn the fight, after that it's purely just a time sink in place to artificially extend the shelf-life of content. As stated that's fair enough for a MMO to a degree, just don't pretend it's skill please that's just insulting.

Finally not everyone has 5 hours a day to grind this...why the animosity to those people? The types of people who don't have the time to do that prolly only have 1 or 2 jobs they care about, why shouldn't they be able to work towards that in a feasible amount of time? Staggered costs like I said (using 20 as an example for first weapon cost) means these people can get the weapon for their preferred job in 10 days if they run twice a day. Is that really an unreasonable time scale? 7/7 would still be an achievement, it would mean you ran Ifrit 20+25+30+35+40+45+50 times.

Basically at what point does working for something become a complete and utter chore that no one can honestly enjoy?

Just throwing this out there.

Got my first moogle kill today, killed him 3 time total (Once without a loot item) and got Mogfists...for my rank 20 pugalist.

but hey I was 1/2 for loot.

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Originally Posted by Wevlum

What is this...I don't even. 1) I've never played WoW 2) I never said get weapons first time every time. I'd sooner see 100% token drop rate and it takes 50 tokens to get a weapon than the current system (although like I've said earlier I prefer a staggered system with an exchange system in place to encourage people to do the fight once they're 7/7.

Random-ish numbers to demonstrate the stagger thing I'm mentioning; First weapon costs 20, second costs 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50. People can get the weapon they need sooner without infuriating pure luck based systems and people who want 7/7 have to "work for it" as people put it. Totems would be 100% every fight, 1 totem each and unpassable. We could then have an exchange system where people can exchange their tokens for seals or something if they're already 7/7. The weapons aren't handed out like free candy, we don't have to deal with stupid pure luck, and you get to have a time sink for people who want 7/7. What is the problem here?

Also you're suggesting beating Ifrit hundreds of times takes skill. It takes a degree of skill to learn the fight, after that it's purely just a time sink in place to artificially extend the shelf-life of content. As stated that's fair enough for a MMO to a degree, just don't pretend it's skill please that's just insulting.

Finally not everyone has 5 hours a day to grind this...why the animosity to those people? The types of people who don't have the time to do that prolly only have 1 or 2 jobs they care about, why shouldn't they be able to work towards that in a feasible amount of time? Staggered costs like I said (using 20 as an example for first weapon cost) means these people can get the weapon for their preferred job in 10 days if they run twice a day. Is that really an unreasonable time scale? 7/7 would still be an achievement, it would mean you ran Ifrit 20+25+30+35+40+45+50 times.

Basically at what point does working for something become a complete and utter chore that no one can honestly enjoy?

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You dont read much do you? you missed my point, but well ill bare with that, in short no i dont agree making higher drop rate,

yes i do agree that changing loot system in those fights would solve everything, like just giving us the same option we have in dungeons that we can give our drops to others in the party before exiting,

no i dont want a system that you can easily burn, the thing that you propose is not bad at all, but in WoW ill say it again they made a system where you could exchange emblems for gear, those emblems were obtained by killing one dungeon boss, so at the end getting the equipment was just a matter of time over skill, especially with the autoparty search system, you could burn dungeons and get those gear easily and at the end you didnt feel something special, like right now ask someone what does it feel getting a Darklight piece, and its a piece not many people will have for a time, like the guy who got the darklight heavy armor, maybe he'll be the only one for 3 weeks or for a month who knows, so many more will try to get what he has.

why don't they adjust the exchange rates on 1.21a or whatever? seriously.

Cause Ifrit weapon is still mostly strongest, until Garuda/1.22 JSE.

50% drop rate on totems/nuts.

20 totems/nuts for a weapon.

Weapons are passable via loot list.

Fixed.

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Originally Posted by elreed

You dont read much do you? you missed my point, but well ill bare with that, in short no i dont agree making higher drop rate,

yes i do agree that changing loot system in those fights would solve everything, like just giving us the same option we have in dungeons that we can give our drops to others in the party before exiting,

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You do realise that by pasing weapons in a Primal fight it would mean people could get 7/7 long before they collected 70-140 tokens. (assuming they dropped 100% for every kill and were non-tradeable)

As the person you responded to said, some people don't care for X weapon because they don't have X job/class levelled, so in this case they would just pass to the person who wanted it.

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no i dont want a system that you can easily burn, the thing that you propose is not bad at all, but in WoW ill say it again they made a system where you could exchange emblems for gear, those emblems were obtained by killing one dungeon boss, so at the end getting the equipment was just a matter of time over skill, especially with the autoparty search system, you could burn dungeons and get those gear easily and at the end you didnt feel something special, like right now ask someone what does it feel getting a Darklight piece, and its a piece not many people will have for a time, like the guy who got the darklight heavy armor, maybe he'll be the only one for 3 weeks or for a month who knows, so many more will try to get what he has.

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Again as the person you quoted said there is a big difference between skill and a time sink.

If you are pretending this games boss encounters are harder than WoW's you need to go and play WoW again.. assuming you ever have of course.

I played WoW for 4-5 years and it definitely felt good to get the item you wanted, obviously I'm not talking about dungeon content, I mean the raid content.

Most people play wow, do a few dungeons and think they know it all, try some of the hard mode stuff and see how far you get.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

You do realise that by pasing weapons in a Primal fight it would mean people could get 7/7 long before they collected 70-140 tokens. (assuming they dropped 100% for every kill and were non-tradeable)

As the person you responded to said, some people don't care for X weapon because they don't have X job/class levelled, so in this case they would just pass to the person who wanted it.



Again as the person you quoted said there is a big difference between skill and a time sink.

If you are pretending this games boss encounters are harder than WoW's you need to go and play WoW again.. assuming you ever have of course.

I played WoW for 4-5 years and it definitely felt good to get the item you wanted, obviously I'm not talking about dungeon content, I mean the raid content.

Most people play wow, do a few dungeons and think they know it all, try some of the hard mode stuff and see how far you get.

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Lol, i played it and did endgame stuff ice crown raids, the colosseum thing, etc. Yeah there were a few things that you felt good aquiring, but as you may read what theyre proposing is making the best gear that even in WoW was hard to get to be like the gear obtainable with emblems, the next thing i expect them to say is that is not fair that Darklight gear is too hard to get so change the drop rate.

Ifrit weapons are the best in game so moogle (in some classes) and so will be the garuda ones, im saying just fix the loot system, let us give the items we dont need to others, that will surely make things faster for everyone i got the weapon that i already had several times, so yeah fix that and everything solve, totems and charms should be left as they are, but thats my op.

Well thats the last i say about this matter, i made my points...

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Originally Posted by elreed

Ifrit weapons are the best in game so moogle (in some classes) and so will be the garuda ones, im saying just fix the loot system, let us give the items we dont need to others, that will surely make things faster for everyone i got the weapon that i already had several times, so yeah fix that and everything solve, totems and charms should be left as they are, but thats my op.

Well thats the last i say about this matter, i made my points...

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I can appreciate that, but from a development point of view they have to make this content last, if they make weapons passable they would have to lower the drop rate on weapons so that the content lasted longer.

or

Alternatively they could make the tokens drop 100% non-tradeable and have a similar time sink (except with this you actually feel that each fight you are earning something and slowly working you way towards something)

If you look at situation one its all based on luck, look at situation 2 and its all based on how much work you want to put in.

Hello Director/producer Yoshida here

Just writing to let you know that no further changes are planned for the drop rates of the primal weapons.

Have fun getting those drops!

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Originally Posted by Holland

Hello Director/producer Yoshida here

Just writing to let you know that no further changes are planned for the drop rates of the primal weapons.

Have fun getting those drops!

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No updates/fixes provided for 2.0? :p

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Originally Posted by Antipika

As if DEVs weren't aware of this issue, including Yoshida himself. Stop taking them for idiots :/ They played other MMORPGs, they know how it works and that the current system is crap..

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They may not be idiots... but they sure are slow. Drop rate % is one of the most easiest changes that can be made... especially when the issue is isolated to 1-2 specific instances. It's not like we're asking for every single mob of every single zone to have their drop rates changed.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Primal Weapons aren't rare anyway.

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Only because SE gave ppl nothing better to do with their time than to farm Ifrit hundreds of times to get what they want. Just because they're not rare doesn't change the fact that they are supposed to be a "lucky drop"

Besides, that doesn't mean we should make them easy to get or it'd completely defeat the purpose of primal weapons. Yes, everyone in the game should easily obtain the best weapons available because thats "fair". Please lol. As I said already the problem is lack of other really good options.

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Originally Posted by DoubleEcho

Seriously? Primal weapons are not supposed to be something everyone gets? So only the "right" people get them correct? Come on now, that's a whole lot of smug in that statement.

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What in the world are you talking about lol. There was no smug in that statement, and I said nothing about the "right" ppl getting them. You are being way too sensitive. Idk if you're new to rpgs/mmorpgs but there are certain items that are "lucky drops". They are usually very powerful, but getting them is simply a matter of luck. It has nothing to do with "right" ppl or "ppl with the most time," it has everything to do with "luck". If you dont have it, you don't have it. Either waste more time trying for the weapon or find something else.

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Why would they need to make the requirement high if the totem drop rate was 100%? You don't think that 20 successful fights is enough? Not everyone has the time or the patience to sit through hundreds of the same fights and wait 15 minutes between them.

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Its a rare item, not a "gj you beat this reward". If you only had to complete it 20 times then it has no rarity at all....there are still ppl to this day in my ls's, even endgame lses, that don't have the primal weapons they want. Thats how it should be. Not everyone should get *everything*; things like luck and/or skill should cause some diversity. Handouts are just lame.

I'm so tired of the QQ culture in America where everyone should get a prize, and everyone should feel equal, and everything should be so "fair" as to rob anything of its value.

Who needs primal weapons? If there were more good options for weapons this wouldnt even be a thread.

Things being fair robs stuff of its value?.... very fail. Things being fair robs people of the ability to epeen, that's all it does. Equal reward for equal work isn't QQ society. (which btw i hate too, this isn't part of QQ society though). Removing luck, or as they have now, some of the luck required to get stuff like this isn't as terrible as some people make it out to be.

Its changing to 5/10 now right? Seems a fair enough middle ground, so quit QQ'n about QQ'rs and -deal with it-, as so many people suggest to everyone already.

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

Things being fair robs stuff of its value?.... very fail. Things being fair robs people of the ability to epeen, that's all it does. Equal reward for equal work isn't QQ society. (which btw i hate too, this isn't part of QQ society though). Removing luck, or as they have now, some of the luck required to get stuff like this isn't as terrible as some people make it out to be.

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But it is. Imagine if everyone who went to the Casino won. Or imagine if everyone who played the lottery got a share of the prize. Or imagine if everyone who played the stock market made lots of money. Its really..well ridiculous. Not everyone would be opposed to a life like that, but frankly, I am. Equal reward for equal work takes all the mystery, fun, excitement, and "chance" out of everything. You automatically know what you're going to get based on how hard you work. No thanks, sounds terrible. And what about ppl who can't put in equal work in FFXIV because they have lives. Should they automatically be inferior, despite the fact that they pay the same amounty of money? I would say no, but your little theory would say otherwise. Luck is the "great equalizer" in the world...it has no biases and levels the playing field.

Your logic makes it sound like that everyone who goes home to study for a couple hours should get an A, or every aspiring singer who practices for hours should become a star, etc etc. I applaud your egalitarianism but thats just silliness. Being a star would have no value if everyone could do it with enough work. Making it in the stock market would have no value if everyone did it either. Just like winning a championship is rather pointless if every team that tries just as hard wins too. Of course it robs things of its value. Would a diamond be as valuable if everyone and their mother could get their hands on one? How much is a rock worth? Practically nothing..because they were everywhere and easily obtained by anyone.

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Its changing to 5/10 now right? Seems a fair enough middle ground, so quit QQ'n about QQ'rs and -deal with it-, as so many people suggest to everyone already.

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I have no problem with the 5/10 totem thing, I was debating a suggestion made by someone else that is not even implemented in the game. And I'll QQ about QQ'rs, as you will QQ about QQ about QQ'rs. But that wasnt even the bulk of the post so I fail to see where you get that impression, unless voicing an opinion = QQ these days.

This isn't real life, this isn't a casino, this isn't the stock market. This isn't about being smarter, more talented or more gifted IRL. Its about people putting in an equal amount of work in a game they all enjoy. Unfairly distrubuting rewards makes no sense.

People play games to take a break from their lives, to take a break from the RL system that doesn't reward people fairly. If you want to draw similarities to RL: why isn't my mnk stronger than someone else's? WTF!?!!? all the jobs have the same abilities and oppurtunities available to everyone else who plays that job? BULLSHIT I SAY! I should be rewarded with better abilities and higher base DPS and stats because of natural talent or because someone has to get lucky.... Nothx.

I am not agree whit the reduction to half. I think they must let the number of totems whiout changes, even make it bigger, but increase the drop rate of totems to 100%. I wil be happy whit a 100% drop rate on totems and the needed of 40-50 totem go get a weapon of choice. Hope SE rethink about it.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

I'm so tired of the QQ culture in America where everyone should get a prize, and everyone should feel equal, and everything should be so "fair" as to rob anything of its value.

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Yes because that's the way the world works right, real life teaches us that if you work hard at something you get results.

It's not about America or QQing, its about people's expectations, luck is a shitty thing.

I can't really remember what you are in favour of as a fix (don't really care), but if its the passable loot fix then its not much different that the guaranteed token drop, either way the loot becomes easier to get.

SE need to get over its obsession with luck and RNG, modern mmos rewards their players for hard work, they don't slap them in the face for it.

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And what about ppl who can't put in equal work in FFXIV because they have lives.

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Wow that's hypocrisy for you, you don't want hand outs for people who work hard for things, but you want it to be luck based so that someone who only plays 4 hours a week gets the chance to walk away with loot.

It would piss me off if a new LS member walked into Ifrit on his first try, we carried him through and he walked away with the weapon I was trying to obtain for the last 40 fights.

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Your logic makes it sound like that everyone who goes home to study for a couple hours should get an A

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That's not the same thing ... seriously ?
Getting an A is determined by how someone retains information and how they use that information, working hard is only a small part of it, and luck sure as F dont' have nothing to do with it :P

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Being a star would have no value if everyone could do it with enough work

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Funny because this is how it used to be, before TV programs marginalised talent.

You sound like you just want to be that special little snowflake standing in Ul'dah with your weapon equipped and standing in attack mode. (look at me, look at me everyone !!!)

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Would a diamond be as valuable if everyone and their mother could get their hands on one?

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I think you will find the majority of married woman have diamonds in their wedding rings, and oddly that analogy doesn't even work in your favour, you work hard, you earn money, you buy a nice diamond.

Christ, I'm 2/27 on just BEATING Ifrit, much less getting a primal weapon, even moreso less than getting the two weapons I need.

I need to find a static.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Only because SE gave ppl nothing better to do with their time than to farm Ifrit hundreds of times to get what they want. Just because they're not rare doesn't change the fact that they are supposed to be a "lucky drop"

Besides, that doesn't mean we should make them easy to get or it'd completely defeat the purpose of primal weapons. Yes, everyone in the game should easily obtain the best weapons available because thats "fair". Please lol. As I said already the problem is lack of other really good options.



What in the world are you talking about lol. There was no smug in that statement, and I said nothing about the "right" ppl getting them. You are being way too sensitive. Idk if you're new to rpgs/mmorpgs but there are certain items that are "lucky drops". They are usually very powerful, but getting them is simply a matter of luck. It has nothing to do with "right" ppl or "ppl with the most time," it has everything to do with "luck". If you dont have it, you don't have it. Either waste more time trying for the weapon or find something else.



Its a rare item, not a "gj you beat this reward". If you only had to complete it 20 times then it has no rarity at all....there are still ppl to this day in my ls's, even endgame lses, that don't have the primal weapons they want. Thats how it should be. Not everyone should get *everything*; things like luck and/or skill should cause some diversity. Handouts are just lame.

I'm so tired of the QQ culture in America where everyone should get a prize, and everyone should feel equal, and everything should be so "fair" as to rob anything of its value.

Who needs primal weapons? If there were more good options for weapons this wouldnt even be a thread.

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This whole post is full of fail and stop trying to defend this system. I know someone who only has WHM 50 and only want the cane but it given everything but what they want. This loot system assumes everyone has every class 50 and wants all the weps.