I am so freaking bored of Shadowbringer's story

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Originally Posted by Tlamila

On Alisae compared to the other Scions, i think that's what makes her seem so caring, the fact that Uri - Y'sh - Tan are basically icicles, so in comparison....but then I see Alphinaud display just as much affection if not more.

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If they're "icicles", they're thawing. :)

Thancred's obviously worked through a lot of his own issues through the course of this game, and I've loved how much Urianger has had a chance to be more of a character and not just a plot delivery guy. Seeing more interactions between them all has been great.

(I loved the exchange after Thancred names Ryne, and Urianger is sort of shocked that Thancred was actually listening to his lectures on Fae language... which all in one line tells you that he tends to go off on lectures either without noticing if people are interested or feeling compelled to do it even if he realises they're not - and that Thancred pretends to be disinterested but actually is paying attention. And I just love the mental image of it. also I relate to the overproviding-information thing.)

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Originally Posted by Gula

Playing a female Roe, the twins are like my WoL's kids. 5.1 Alisae, to me, was like seeing a teen get upset someone insulted their mother.

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That's cute!

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Originally Posted by Alleo

The problem is that Yoshida himself has stated that they written her on purpose to be seen that way. (As in either friend or someone that is in love with the WoL) Ryne still feels more pure on that part because she does not show any kind of jealousy towards other people liking us which is shown quite a bit with Alisaie.

I am also not sure why they did that. I know younger people can fall in love with older ones, but in a game where they dont let us be teenager because they fear bad press if people use it for lewd stuff, I am a bit surprised that they made a clearly underage character into someone that can be easily seen as in love with us.

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Despite not being full-grown, the twins are actually considered adults - their Tale from the Calamity (and maybe elsewhere) mentions that sixteen years old is "old enough to be considered of age in Sharlayan society" - and particularly in the Crystal Braves arc, it's clear that Alphinaud is being treated as an equal adult and not a child.

Remember that Elezen physically mature later than other races, which probably puts them in a bit of an awkward position at that age in-universe as well. But on the other hand, people are going to be used to regarding Lalafells as fully mature adults too.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

WOW. You guys bit into this troll sandwich for 23 pages?! The OP posted one message that was their opinion. A very unpopular opinion. How does this spawn 23 pages of discussion? Shadowbringers is the best story to ever grace an MMO. Nothing compares. You can stop posting here now.

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The thing about forum discussions is that they go in unexpected and interesting directions. A lot of this discussion isn't about the original post at all, and we're not just going to abandon this thread in the middle of our current conversation because the original post has been addressed.

(Also, page counts sound so much more dramatic when you haven't turned up the number of posts per page. I'm only on page 6.)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Despite not being full-grown, the twins are actually considered adults - their Tale from the Calamity (and maybe elsewhere) mentions that sixteen years old is "old enough to be considered of age in Sharlayan society" - and particularly in the Crystal Braves arc, it's clear that Alphinaud is being treated as an equal adult and not a child.

Remember that Elezen physically mature later than other races, which probably puts them in a bit of an awkward position at that age in-universe as well. But on the other hand, people are going to be used to regarding Lalafells as fully mature adults too.

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They might be ingame of age (but I wonder if 16 is adult in other city states too) but that does not change the problem for me that they still look like teenagers. I mean one could have an ingame culture that sees 14 year old or younger girls as adult enough to marry but I am quite sure that this would not make it less creepy for quite some of us.

In the end I have no problem with characters (no matter the gender or race) that have a crush on us but I wish they would tone it down with those that are so often with us (and that still look so young). 5.1 was the worst for me in that regard, especially since the german version was much more obvious with it. She is one of my favorite characters, but I did like her a bit more in stormblood.

I always read Alisae as a severe case of hero worship, with her "jealousy" just being a teenager's embarrassment over getting called out on it in front of her idol.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I always read Alisae as a severe case of hero worship, with her "jealousy" just being a teenager's embarrassment over getting called out on it in front of her idol.

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Pretty much how I see it too honestly. But it can obviously be interpreted in different ways for different people. For my character, this makes the most sense. My character is used to the celebrity status that the Warrior of Light has and I'm sure Alisae is not the only one with an extreme adoration for her idol. The Warrior of Light is also a bit of a mentor to her too and some of the other Scions. If I was in the presence of my favorite Hollywood actor in real life chances are I'd be doing a little fanboying myself. In FF XIV, we have adventurers, both famous and unknown, and gods/goddesses (and all the other stuff in between). Some of the most famous adventurers/entities have a bit of a following. The Warrior of Light is kind of its own thing I guess since we're an adventurer but also our own entity. But the same thing still applies.

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Originally Posted by Nandrolone

I prefer a final fantasy single player’s story, as it feels more personal and immersive.

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When you skip everything, you don't know what you do compare. So you're just not qualified to compare it at all.

I've played every single player Final Fantasy of the main series starting with Final Fantasy 1 and in my opinion, the Shadowbringers story was the best Final Fantasy story Square Enix produced under the label "Final Fantasy" since Final Fantasy 9.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

They might be ingame of age (but I wonder if 16 is adult in other city states too) but that does not change the problem for me that they still look like teenagers. I mean one could have an ingame culture that sees 14 year old or younger girls as adult enough to marry but I am quite sure that this would not make it less creepy for quite some of us.

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Yeeaah, I am still bothered by the fact its heavily implied that Past-Alma (who current Alma is named after) is pregnant, while she looks like a child, and the father looks 10 years older than her.
It completely tarnishes the ending of that storyline for me, because total creep factor.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Yeeaah, I am still bothered by the fact its heavily implied that Past-Alma (who current Alma is named after) is pregnant, while she looks like a child, and the father looks 10 years older than her.
It completely tarnishes the ending of that storyline for me, because total creep factor.

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Wait, what? When was that implied? o.o

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Yeeaah, I am still bothered by the fact its heavily implied that Past-Alma (who current Alma is named after) is pregnant, while she looks like a child, and the father looks 10 years older than her.
It completely tarnishes the ending of that storyline for me, because total creep factor.

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Wait...what!?
-Dramatic head turn-
DELITA!!

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Originally Posted by Avidria

Wait, what? When was that implied? o.o

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I'll try to find the cutscene again, and post a screenshot. I only watched it once, a year ago, so maybe I got the wrong impression (I hope I did).

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Wait...what!?
-Dramatic head turn-
DELITA!!

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I RE-WATCHED IT, IT WAS ORRAN.
INC screenshots of the implied pregnancy. (Uploading them as we speak)

https://imgur.com/Jhjw7yv.jpg
https://imgur.com/d0gNAAE.jpg
^She strokes her belly, and then the two share a moment
https://imgur.com/VYeW8bO.jpg
https://imgur.com/93ukcpS.jpg
GDI Orran! She's a KID! /disgust
Earlier in the cutscene you see them very close, with Orran comforting her about the loss of her brother.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

I'll try to find the cutscene again, and post a screenshot. I only watched it once, a year ago, so maybe I got the wrong impression (I hope I did).

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If it's the one I'm thinking of it does strongly imply she's pregnant, (I think she might outright say it) I think to set up that the current Ramza and Alma are related to there namesakes

I dont think Alma looks like a kid at all. She's like in her 20s.

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Originally Posted by AriaEnia

I dont think Alma looks like a kid at all. She's like in her 20s.

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Well... Hate to break it to you, but she is actually 15 years old. So the creep factor is still very much there.
To me she looks like a 12 Yr old wearing a padded bra

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Well... Hate to break it to you, but she is actually 15 years old. So the creep factor is still very much there.
To me she looks like a 12 Yr old wearing a padded bra

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Many parts of the world (including in NA and EU) today apparently have age of consent as low as 15 and 16 years old. Japan has even lower than that, and some parts of the world go even as low as 12 (assuming they even have such a concept).

And if you think fantasy setting, you think medieval/ancient times, which can have people (or women specifically) be married and have children at a young age.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Well... Hate to break it to you, but she is actually 15 years old. So the creep factor is still very much there.
To me she looks like a 12 Yr old wearing a padded bra

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Do we have actual info on her age in 14, or are you just quoting it from Tactics?

Either way... eh. Given the world setting and japanese literature trends, I wouldn't consider it shocking or suprising.

Helluuuuuuu

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Originally Posted by linay

Many parts of the world (including in NA and EU) today apparently have age of consent as low as 15 and 16 years old. Japan has even lower than that, and some parts of the world go even as low as 12 (assuming they even have such a concept).

And if you think fantasy setting, you think medieval/ancient times, which can have people (or women specifically) be married and have children at a young age.

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Japan's national age of consent is 13, it's a different matter on the Prefecture level which almost across the board is much higher at an average of 16-18 years. It's Prefectures have almost to a 'T' said that's gross and stepped in.

That said I don't much care if ancient!Alma got pregnant as I always assumed it was several years down the line and SE was just too lazy to make an older model with an unique face. I'd be far more squicked if it was the one we actually interact with as she's definitely coded as a teen as is her brother based on how they act.

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Originally Posted by linay

Many parts of the world (including in NA and EU) today apparently have age of consent as low as 15 and 16 years old.

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I am from one of those countries, and it's still considered creepy when the guy is a lot older.
(Heck, its still creepy when the woman is a lot older too)

I wonder if you guys who have an issue with most shonen and shojo animes. Or hell, a lot of literature in the western world. What I am saying is, if Daenerys can get it on with Drogo at 13, then I think Alisaie can make googily eyes at the wol. Its not a real person.

Also, Alphinaud can lead armies, drink wine, fight firery dragons, be our main diplomat, and constant other stuff but also no googily eyes.

Fiction. Who'd let Alphinaud do that in real life modern times. No matter the genius. Now if it were medieval times, he'd have a case. Oh hey, this game is sorta a high fantasy with a medieval flare. Gee, who woulda thunk it.

Time to marry off the twins. Then kill one of them. Not Alphinaud, tho.

Troll post.

Get the F outta here.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

Time to marry off the twins. Then kill one of them. Not Alphinaud, tho.

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Don't you touch my daughter/sister.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

I wonder if you guys who have an issue with most shonen and shojo animes. Or hell, a lot of literature in the western world. What I am saying is, if Daenerys can get it on with Drogo at 13, then I think Alisaie can make googily eyes at the wol. Its not a real person.

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I am quite sure we know that she is no real person but the argument can be used everywhere if that is the case..there was a long discussion about getting to play underage characters and quite some people called that creepy. Even Yoshida went on and said that we would not be able to play younger characters, mostly because of people doing "adult" stuff with them. (Or modding their bodies) So on one hand its fine if one character behaves that way and its even fine by the devs (they said that its done on purpose so that people can decide if she loves the WoL or just admires them) but as soon as someone posts that they simply want to play someone under 18 people are going nuts over it and calling those quite the names..

So I am at one point more annoyed at that double standard...but also because in shadowbringer it seems to be Alisaies main character point...and I wish she was just more than being an WoL admirer (already got enough of that with other NPCs)

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

I wonder if you guys who have an issue with most shonen and shojo animes. Or hell, a lot of literature in the western world. What I am saying is, if Daenerys can get it on with Drogo at 13, then I think Alisaie can make googily eyes at the wol. Its not a real person.

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Oh, I wonder why they used a much older actor for Daenerys the TV series then?
Oh that's right, because most people find it creepy for adults to be doing sexual things with young teens. They knew most of the audience wouldn't want to see that stuff.
Yeah, Alisaie isn't a real person, but I'd wager that she looks real enough that people would be creeped out. (That's if the WoL did anything back, that is. Alisaie can make as many googly eyes as she want, it's common for teenage girls to admire older famous people. It's when those older famous people give them affection back, that it gets freaking weird)

To be fair, that's one of the least objectionable things to appear in Game of Thrones. Which says a lot.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Oh, I wonder why they used a much older actor for Daenerys the TV series then?
Oh that's right, because most people find it creepy for adults to be doing sexual things with young teens. They knew most of the audience wouldn't want to see that stuff.

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To be fair, Game of Thrones being Game of Thrones, that likely has less to do with a younger actress being morally objectionable as finding another actress, young or otherwise, that'd do as good a job of both playing the part and appealing to the fantasies of male viewers...

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

To be fair, Game of Thrones being Game of Thrones, that likely has less to do with a younger actress being morally objectionable as finding another actress, young or otherwise, that'd do as good a job of both playing the part and appealing to the fantasies of male viewers...

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I just want a Good Fun Show. I could care less how attractive the Actress / Females characters are.
Brienne of Tarth could have been the Dragon Mother for all I care. And I actually like her in GOT

Story was great and I wish it was longer..

If it follows the usual pattern, the story for Shadowbringers won't be over until 5.3.

In Game of Thrones there's basically nothing that's not morally wrong.
We don't play the protagonists of that story.

I completed the shadowbringers story like a 100x plz for the love of god let us buy a Tales of Adventure: Shadowbringers from the mog station, SOME OF US NEEDS IT!

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Originally Posted by SpecialTaskForce

I completed the shadowbringers story like a 100x plz for the love of god let us buy a Tales of Adventure: Shadowbringers from the mog station, SOME OF US NEEDS IT!

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No. Go outside.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

They might be ingame of age (but I wonder if 16 is adult in other city states too) but that does not change the problem for me that they still look like teenagers. I mean one could have an ingame culture that sees 14 year old or younger girls as adult enough to marry but I am quite sure that this would not make it less creepy for quite some of us.

In the end I have no problem with characters (no matter the gender or race) that have a crush on us but I wish they would tone it down with those that are so often with us (and that still look so young). 5.1 was the worst for me in that regard, especially since the german version was much more obvious with it. She is one of my favorite characters, but I did like her a bit more in stormblood.

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16 seems to the low edge of "acceptable to be regarded as adults" to me, especially considering the non-modern setting. 14 sounds too young, but 16 is an age where even in modern Western society, people start to be given some adult permissions. It's the age they can choose to leave school, get their driver's license or learner's permit (depending on where you are), possibly is the minimum working age, start looking at jobs and careers...

And also? There's nothing weird about a 16-year-old having a crush on someone, if that is indeed the case, whether you regard her as adult or not. It's not like either she or you are trying to act on it.

(And are other people jumping straight from the "emotional attachment" in-game to "must be aiming for a physical relationship"? Because I don't make that jump so I don't see it as an issue, but I realised maybe that's what other people are thinking.)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

And also? There's nothing weird about a 16-year-old having a crush on someone, if that is indeed the case, whether you regard her as adult or not. It's not like either she or you are trying to act on it.

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The problem, at least for me, it's not her having the crush, but that there seems to be n expectation that you can choose to act on it or something, or at least consider her seriously as a love interest.
Her having a crush is another thing. Hell, I think half of the Source and 90% of the Prime have a crush on the WoL.

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Originally Posted by SpecialTaskForce

I completed the shadowbringers story like a 100x plz for the love of god let us buy a Tales of Adventure: Shadowbringers from the mog station, SOME OF US NEEDS IT!

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Wish granted.

You don't mind waiting for 6.0 for this right?

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Wish granted.

You don't mind waiting for 6.0 for this right?

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ofc I mind, all the craft and gathering items will be worthless in 5.0, what a stupid question!

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Originally Posted by SpecialTaskForce

ofc I mind, all the craft and gathering items will be worthless in 5.0, what a stupid question!

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Ooooh so you're a crazy person. Got it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

And also? There's nothing weird about a 16-year-old having a crush on someone, if that is indeed the case, whether you regard her as adult or not. It's not like either she or you are trying to act on it.

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I know that there are relationships in real life like that, I just find it funny how anytime someone just wants to play an underage character or wants to have a body like for example Alphinaud some people are screaming that its utterly creepy and disgusting. Even Yoshida spoke out against that (even though I am not 100% sure if that only counted for kids or anything not adult) and yet we have underage characters that are on purpose written to be seen that way.

My problem is more that she seemingly gets more and more jealous and overprotective over time. 5.1 was the worst for me with Ysthola outright calling out the exarch and Alisaie as fighting over their beloved warrior while we as a character cant do anything at all. I just wish they would tone it down since we wont ever get the chance to say no. In HW and Stormblood she was still more than just admirer of the WoL and at least in my eyes in shadowbringer this has gotten much worse..with seemingly so many characters always pointing out how she is just "fangirling" about us.

I for example love Haurchefant and saw him and my character as a possibility. But I also understand that not everyone likes it that way. If he had been a main character and flirted with us the whole time then I would have found that annoying and it would be even worse for those that dislike him.

I have not figured out why people are quick to jump to the conclusion of something being creepy either.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I for example love Haurchefant and saw him and my character as a possibility. But I also understand that not everyone likes it that way. If he had been a main character and flirted with us the whole time then I would have found that annoying and it would be even worse for those that dislike him.

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Those of us that played XIV during Year of the Horse got an insight into Haurchefant's kinks in the New Year's Event that no one since has been able to get....

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Originally Posted by Catwho

Those of us that played XIV during Year of the Horse got an insight into Haurchefant's kinks in the New Year's Event that no one since has been able to get....

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Please, do tell. Also, I saw a video as to what Haucherfant says it the original/Japanese dialogues and oh my!

Guys its a troll thread, dont feed the troll.

The greatwood arc literally gives us one of the biggest lore revelations in the whole game, and amh mareng afterwards has some pretty significant character building for Thancred (Read: The only character development he's ever gotten in 6+ years...Sometimes i wonder what people see in FF14s msq characters sometimes...)

Meanwhile, everything before that is the filler...
That's how you know its a troll thread.