Letter from the Producer LXII

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

Why can’t we all just... chill out? It’s almost like 55% (or more) of the player-base is never happy with this game.

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I think that's just the people on this message board. Most of the people I play with are having a good time. They never come here. ;)

You know what.. real talk. I'm just glad Yoshi P said what he said.. cause he could've been like " I see people are unhappy with our choice of not including a male Viera and Female Hrot. We're sorry for your dissappointment but don't plan on doing anything at all, And we're NOT fixing any jobs so just deal with it." Like another company did recently......coughfallout76-

OOOORRRR " Do you not have buns and cats? We got miqo'tes and bunny suits too."

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Originally Posted by griffinborn

Meanwhile through Google translator:

https://i.imgur.com/UfpKCIi.png

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The Japanese name for the expansion, 漆黒のヴィランズ, is indeed "Jet-Black Villains," with "Villains" being in English. It's a really dumb name.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

The Japanese name for the expansion, 漆黒のヴィランズ, is indeed "Jet-Black Villains," with "Villains" being in English. It's a really dumb name.

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Ehh... Jet-Black Villains isn't too bad.

At least it doesn't sound like what a 13 year old edgelord would name their DRK only FC >.>

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Ehh... Jet-Black Villains isn't too bad.

At least it doesn't sound like what a 13 year old edgelord would name their DRK only FC >.>

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It sounds like it could be FF XIV's version of Team Skull. Not that it's a bad thing, I love those guys. I'm picturing a group of thugs dressed in black walking up to adventurers like hipsters and waving their arms like mad just to harass them.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It sounds like it could be FF XIV's version of Team Skull. Not that it's a bad thing, I love those guys. I'm picturing a group of thugs dressed in black walking up to adventurers like hipsters and waving their arms like mad just to harass them.

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Inb4 new Masked Carnivale stage xD

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Oh, I don't disagree that everyone wants the other genders. However, there was no outcry over miqo being female only, and highlander and roe being male only in 1.0. There was a request post that was civil, and contained, and that was pretty much it. No huge outcry, no 50 million topics.

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If 1.0 had more players than what could fit into a movie theatre, you might have something with this.. but since there wasn't enough players to even keep the lights on, there wasn't enough players with access to the forums to give the devs advice on features.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It sounds like it could be FF XIV's version of Team Skull. Not that it's a bad thing, I love those guys. I'm picturing a group of thugs dressed in black walking up to adventurers like hipsters and waving their arms like mad just to harass them.

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I can't not think of the recurring joke-rival adventuring party in the "Tales of" series, the Jet-Black Wings (漆黒の翼).

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

If 1.0 had more players than what could fit into a movie theatre, you might have something with this.. but since there wasn't enough players to even keep the lights on, there wasn't enough players with access to the forums to give the devs advice on features.

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You say that, yet, even now, most people don't use the forums. The old forums are still here btw, you can go look yourself.

The ratio is still the same, even if the numbers are larger.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You say that, yet, even now, most people don't use the forums. The old forums are still here btw, you can go look yourself.
The ratio is still the same, even if the numbers are larger.

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The numbers being smaller is kind of the point. When you increase the number of people in total, you actually increase the number of people contributing to that ratio; So when there wasn't even enough people to keep the lights on in the game, you're not going to get even a fraction of people bothering with the forums of the game.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

The numbers being smaller is kind of the point. When you increase the number of people in total, you actually increase the number of people contributing to that ratio; So when there wasn't even enough people to keep the lights on in the game, you're not going to get even a fraction of people bothering with the forums of the game.

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And yet the forums were quite active. You still only have a fraction of a percent of people playing the game on these forums now. Its literally no different. None of my friends use the forums, just me. Most people don't even visit the lodestone and I swear half don't even know it exists.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

And yet the forums were quite active. You still only have a fraction of a percent of people playing the game on these forums now. Its literally no different. None of my friends use the forums, just me. Most people don't even visit the lodestone and I swear half don't even know it exists.

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Plus there is the fact that the game sold really well initially, but nobody wanted to stay and subscribe. Squeenix extended the free time a few times but it didn't take.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

During 1.0, not the recent mess.

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Most of what I remember as a non-player for 1.0 was people complaining they couldn't even play the game so I imagine the races were not really that much of a concern compared to poor state of the game itself.

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Originally Posted by enthauptet

Most of what I remember as a non-player for 1.0 was people complaining they couldn't even play the game so I imagine the races were not really that much of a concern compared to poor state of the game itself.

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It had rather high system requirements, but I was able to run it on a laptop with a crappy gt330m lol, albeit at like 15 fps on lowest settings and windowed mode. My desktop handled it ok, nothing super special. Had a core 2 quad from a gateway and a gtx460.

A lot of it was people doing what they do with the current version, running it on complete potatoes (you'd be surprised how many people play this game under minimum required specs with old laptops). Not to say the graphic requirement wasn't insane, it was. Its just a bit overblown. The game it self was functional. It was missing a lot of features, had very little content, but it was functional... the UI tho, was not lol.....

Also, 2.x+ on lowest settings looks far, FAR better than 1.x on lowest. Take a look for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV6n5xAoAjw

I don't remember the potato that A1 V3 was when I played FFXIV 1.0. I had to set everything to low to just to play, but considering I couldn't play WoW with shadows this wasn't troublesome to me or my family. We were used to not having the power to have shiny graphics.

But ya. I mean, hunt down the ARR end credits. There is a list from A-Z of the players that supported and gave their advice. From 1.2X to 2.0. If that is small then okay, but I can't even go through it, its too long. I think that is a decent amount of people who for the whole life of ARR did not go ape shit crazy over every little thing like this forum does now. I made some many comments on how even keeled and calm the forum goers were through those first two years.

FFXIV's player base before 3.0 maybe even 4.0 was a far nicer, less cruel group. The insults I have seen since 4.0 here on this forum is atrocious, and felt just like the WoW forums. Its really, really sad.

Anyway on topic! I'm was pleasantly surprised at the work of those devs that made the small amount of head gear work. That's like the 110% effort I hear about but never see anywhere.

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Originally Posted by LiteBrite

You're delusional if you think there enough people like you to support this game. And it's sooo funny how you defenders always use the entitled word per usual. So I guess were just entitled children, while you're just hypocrites...

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It's also so funny how you say we are talking down to those who don't support the dev's while you go ahead and talk down to us that do support them. I'm proud to be a white knight if that's what you want to call me. But if you don't want to be talked down to you shouldn't be doing it either. Also your just as hypocritical as you claim we are.

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Originally Posted by LiteBrite

Wow... White Knights are out in full force in this thread, talking down anyone that don't praise the devs cause of this "Live Letter". And why do you always have to use the word entitlement too? Like you think you're entitled to get what you're getting in the new expansion is funny stuff...

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Entitlement is acting as if you're owed something and it's exactly how many people whining about this topic come across.

You pay to play this game, you don't own it or the dev team. This is their game and their vision to do with as they see fit. Now, hearing that the hard working devs behind this game we all play decided to take it upon themselves to work on something for FREE ahead of schedule just to please us when they could have waited to work on it Post 5.0 release as Yoshi planned in their scheduled work hours ... I'd think any reasonable person would applaud that effort and commitment.

So when are they going to fix 540 pieces of gear that clip with tails?

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

So when are they going to fix 540 pieces of gear that clip with tails?

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"Oh, so they worked on their free time to fix 540 pieces of headgear for the new races?
How about they fix more stuff for me since they still got free time left!"

If you give a mouse a cookie...

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

"Oh, so they worked on their free time to fix 540 pieces of headgear for the new races?
How about they fix more stuff for me since they still got free time left!"

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If we're being fair here, Miqo'te (and more recently Au'ra) tails have been poking holes in our robes for many years now. You thought that cat tail was all fluffy and soft? F no, that thing's made of steel!

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Originally Posted by Taybat

I do find there gender races decision very odd. trying to please everybody and instead pleased no one

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It sure pleased me, but I have no intention of changing faces. Hyur midlander female all the way.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

If we're being fair here, Miqo'te (and more recently Au'ra) tails have been poking holes in our robes for many years now. You thought that cat tail was all fluffy and soft? F no, that thing's made of steel!

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The tail is actually a blade in disguise. Gotta defend ourselves somehow.

I hope the Devs that did the work in their spare time got paid for it... or will get paid for it. If not... God Bless Them.

I acknowledge the reasoning behind the choice of what races to add as truthful and legitimate, but I still don't accept it as the right decision. If this truly is the last opportunity they had to add new races then they really just painted themselves into a corner by doing two half-races. Did they expect that people would be satisfied and not ask for the missing half? They really ought to have just picked one or the other and saved themselves the headache. They definitely wouldn't be suffering the same criticism they are now if they had. I don't buy the reasoning of "there was a lot of demand for a beast race" either when past polls have shown that a mammalian beast race was by far the -least- popular choice for a new player race option.

As for the decision to not add a new healer: when is the right time to balance healers if not at the start of a new expansion? If they added a new tank because they were having difficulty balancing tanks with just three jobs, what makes them think they'll fare any better with three healers instead of four? I don't buy this reasoning at all, it all just sounds like an excuse to me. They said similar things about why Samurai wasn't a tank but now here we are 2 years later and suddenly a new tank is apparently necessary. I also think it's silly that they count ranged, melee and caster DPS as distinct roles when not only do the players not do that, even the game itself doesn't do that in the majority of its matchmaking. For everything except the Feast, you do not queue as "ranged DPS", it's just "DPS". I suspect the real reason that there is no new healer is because they decided every expansion needs at least 1 new DPS job because a large majority of players only play DPS and nothing else.

It might seem a little unfair to criticize a decision based on genuine resource and workflow constraints, but at the same time the result is what it is. XIV is a product on the market competing with similar products, you shouldn't overlook flaws just because the creators are struggling to overcome them. Sometimes your best effort just isn't good enough. I think people made their preferences abundantly clear, and if the developers actively make decisions contrary to those expectations then they shouldn't be excused.

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Originally Posted by PangTong

I acknowledge the reasoning behind the choice of what races to add as truthful and legitimate, but I still don't accept it as the right decision. If this truly is the last opportunity they had to add new races then they really just painted themselves into a corner by doing two half-races. Did they expect that people would be satisfied and not ask for the missing half? They really ought to have just picked one or the other and saved themselves the headache. They definitely wouldn't be suffering the same criticism they are now if they had. I don't buy the reasoning of "there was a lot of demand for a beast race" either when past polls have shown that a mammalian beast race was by far the -least- popular choice for a new player race option.

As for the decision to not add a new healer: when is the right time to balance healers if not at the start of a new expansion? If they added a new tank because they were having difficulty balancing tanks with just three jobs, what makes them think they'll fare any better with three healers instead of four? I don't buy this reasoning at all, it all just sounds like an excuse to me. They said similar things about why Samurai wasn't a tank but now here we are 2 years later and suddenly a new tank is apparently necessary. I also think it's silly that they count ranged, melee and caster DPS as distinct roles when not only do the players not do that, even the game itself doesn't do that in the majority of its matchmaking. For everything except the Feast, you do not queue as "ranged DPS", it's just "DPS". I suspect the real reason that there is no new healer is because they decided every expansion needs at least 1 new DPS job because a large majority of players only play DPS and nothing else.

It might seem a little unfair to criticize a decision based on genuine resource and workflow constraints, but at the same time the result is what it is. XIV is a product on the market competing with similar products, you shouldn't overlook flaws just because the creators are struggling to overcome them. Sometimes your best effort just isn't good enough. I think people made their preferences abundantly clear, and if the developers actively make decisions contrary to those expectations then they shouldn't be excused.

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When matchmaking through the DF the game does differentiate between melee, ranged, and caster. But if it can't put different dps with different dps then to cut down on queue times it'll stick two of the same together. Otherwise you'd have ranged and caster waiting forever since I "think" those are more played than melee.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

When matchmaking through the DF the game does differentiate between melee, ranged, and caster. But if it can't put different dps with different dps then to cut down on queue times it'll stick two of the same together. Otherwise you'd have ranged and caster waiting forever since I "think" those are more played than melee.

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Yep, I usually have faster queues as melee than my ranged/caster friends.

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Originally Posted by PangTong

I acknowledge the reasoning behind the choice of what races to add as truthful and legitimate, but I still don't accept it as the right decision. If this truly is the last opportunity they had to add new races then they really just painted themselves into a corner by doing two half-races. Did they expect that people would be satisfied and not ask for the missing half? They really ought to have just picked one or the other and saved themselves the headache. They definitely wouldn't be suffering the same criticism they are now if they had. I don't buy the reasoning of "there was a lot of demand for a beast race" either when past polls have shown that a mammalian beast race was by far the -least- popular choice for a new player race option.

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Did you happen to read the live letter?

Cause all this is clearly answered in there.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Did you happen to read the live letter?

Cause all this is clearly answered in there.

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I think you are missing his point. Try thinking of it this way, lets say you go out to eat, you're a very picky eater by the way, but you go out and only have a choice between a chicken or pork dish. You are told or its hinted to you by advertisements that you can get either fried or grilled/roasted. Perfect you like both chicken and pork, but think grilled chicken is too dry and fried pork too oily, so you can just choose from the other two options. However, once you get to the restaurant you find out that they only fry their pork and grill their chicken, which baffles you because how hard could it be to do, the other method. You get told "reasons" that admittedly make sense, but ultimately if this restaurant doesn't have any options for you you're probably going to find someplace else to eat. Granted this is a bit of an oversimplification but does present a similar expectation and dilemma. The two meat options are nice, but it's better to have the one option cooked two ways over the two options cooked only one way. It's this wierd dynamic where by limiting the options, you're creating a wider variety of options.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I think you are missing his point. Try thinking of it this way, lets say you go out to eat, you're a very picky eater by the way, but you go out and only have a choice between a chicken or pork dish. You are told or its hinted to you by advertisements that you can get either fried or grilled/roasted. Perfect you like both chicken and pork, but think grilled chicken is too dry and fried pork too oily, so you can just choose from the other two options. However, once you get to the restaurant you find out that they only fry their pork and grill their chicken, which baffles you because how hard could it be to do, the other method. You get told "reasons" that admittedly make sense, but ultimately if this restaurant doesn't have any options for you you're probably going to find someplace else to eat. Granted this is a bit of an oversimplification but does present a similar expectation and dilemma. The two meat options are nice, but it's better to have the one option cooked two ways over the two options cooked only one way. It's this wierd dynamic where by limiting the options, you're creating a wider variety of options.

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What you're saying makes sense for the restaurant, since the main reason your going to it is to eat those dishes. But it doesn't for FFXIV case since the new races aren't the main reason people are going to play the expansion. That's the core difference between the two cases.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

What you're saying makes sense for the restaurant, since the main reason your going to it is to eat those dishes. But it doesn't for FFXIV case since the new races aren't the main reason people are going to play the expansion. That's the core difference between the two cases.

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Exactly, that's why I said it was an oversimplification. There are definitely other factors, but it's the expectation of getting one set of options only to find out you have a slightly different set available, which seems to contradict the original set in a way.

Personally, I doubt I would change to another "given" race, but I feel bad for people who don't have the option now; especially a friend of mine who wanted to be a bunnyboi, lol. Now I'm caught up in this whole loli/shouts debacle. I would like more options for cuter males. Let me be a Ivalician moogle please, lol.

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Originally Posted by Alucard135

What you're saying makes sense for the restaurant, since the main reason your going to it is to eat those dishes. But it doesn't for FFXIV case since the new races aren't the main reason people are going to play the expansion. That's the core difference between the two cases.

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Maybe its not the main reason for most of us but it can be a big enough reason for someone that is already on the fence about the new expansion. Characters and how they look are a big part of the game, I mean we even joke about glamour being the true endgame and we have lots of glamour in the cash shop because they know it will sell. Race is another part of that and depending on how you play the game (creating your own characters story and more) it will be a big impact.

So one could say: You went to the restaurant in the past but they changed their sortiment and now you barely have any reason to still like it. Then they announce two new dishes and because they have offered such dishes in the past with different ways to cook them you believe that this is happening there too, go there and then find out that its not the case with those two. Disappointed you now realize that you have nothing that greatly left to visit the restaurant since you need to pay money to reach it. Now you might descide to either never visit it again or just go there from time to time to save money.

For me this makes perfect sense. Races are one point of the game, if they would be worth nothing then why would they introduce new ones anyway? So if you are already on the fence or dreamed about being that race for a long time, this decision can very well make you drop the game or just sub barely anymore to get to see the rest you still like (like story for example).

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Originally Posted by PangTong

Did they expect that people would be satisfied and not ask for the missing half? They really ought to have just picked one or the other and saved themselves the headache. They definitely wouldn't be suffering the same criticism they are now if they had. I don't buy the reasoning of "there was a lot of demand for a beast race" either when past polls have shown that a mammalian beast race was by far the -least- popular choice for a new player race option.

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Did you expect that people would be satisfied and not ask for the other race if just one was released? "WE DIDN'T NEED MORE CUTE RACES, WE NEEDED BEASTS! SE WASTED THE CHANCE TO MAKE THIS GAME DIFFERENT!11!", or "I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY AREN'T GIVING US VIERA BECAUSE OF A BEAST RACE THAT NO ONE WILL PLAY!!111one!!"

I know the story because there was a huge and annoying drama back when Au Ra was released. Please do not think that this wouldn't be the same. People are going to complain no matter what the outcome is, so SE's choice wasn't bad or good. It just wasn't your personal favourite.

My personal favourite would be Viera only and no beasts races, but I have enough of a brain to understand that my tastes aren't the very core of what makes the world go round. Many people wanted Viera, many people wanted beasts -or at least did create a HUGE drama back in the day because of it-, SE had resources to make just a single race -male and female-, and made the choice that would include both races. As much as I wanted male Vieras, this sounds reasonable to me.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Personally, I doubt I would change to another "given" race, but I feel bad for people who don't have the option now; especially a friend of mine who wanted to be a bunnyboi, lol. Now I'm caught up in this whole loli/shouts debacle. I would like more options for cuter males. Let me be a Ivalician moogle please, lol.

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But you have cuter males already with miqo-te, elezen, Au ra all you are requesting you already have I can understand you or your friend want to play male viera and that motive is indifferent to me in game because its not that I will play but I agree the more diversity in game the better.

To add diversity doesn't imply a use of the same models would be more interesting in game concept perspective to do something from the scratch, since for males you already have Roes and Hrothgar for that difference.

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Originally Posted by Agaziel

But you have cuter males already with miqo-te, elezen, Au ra all you are requesting you already have I can understand you or your friend want to play male viera and motive is indifferent in game because its not that I will play it but I agree the more diversity in game the better.

To add diversity doesn't imply a use of the same models would be more interesting in game concept perspective to do something from the scratch, since for males you already have Roes and Hrothgar for that difference.

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Elezens and Au Ra aren't really "cute", imo (sorry, but Au Ra males have eternal "stone-macho-face", it's not cute at all). But if males have at least some options (Miqo'te, mainly, and even with them there are places for argue mostly because they aren't really elegant), those who wanted beast-looking females got nothing. They received another waifus, as if we didn't have tones of them already (upd, just to clarify: I like how female Vieras look, but... c'mon...).

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Elezens and Au Ra aren't really "cute", imo (sorry, but Au Ra males have eternal "stone-macho-face", it's not cute at all). But if males have at least some options (Miqo'te, mainly, and even with them there are places for argue mostly because they aren't really elegant), those who wanted beast-looking females got nothing. They received another waifus, as if we didn't have tones of them already (upd, just to clarify: I like how female Vieras look, but... c'mon...).

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I think what everyone is missing is that the Viera males would've been JUST like those choices tho. So noone would've been happy either way. " Why you make them like Elezens? " why do I say this? Cause YP already said thats how he'll make them and noone is honoring that. THey keep asking for options Yoshi is never going to make. Like child PCs.

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Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

Did you expect that people would be satisfied and not ask for the other race if just one was released? "WE DIDN'T NEED MORE CUTE RACES, WE NEEDED BEASTS! SE WASTED THE CHANCE TO MAKE THIS GAME DIFFERENT!11!", or "I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY AREN'T GIVING US VIERA BECAUSE OF A BEAST RACE THAT NO ONE WILL PLAY!!111one!!"

I know the story because there was a huge and annoying drama back when Au Ra was released. Please do not think that this wouldn't be the same. People are going to complain no matter what the outcome is, so SE's choice wasn't bad or good. It just wasn't your personal favourite.

My personal favourite would be Viera only and no beasts races, but I have enough of a brain to understand that my tastes aren't the very core of what makes the world go round. Many people wanted Viera, many people wanted beasts -or at least did create a HUGE drama back in the day because of it-, SE had resources to make just a single race -male and female-, and made the choice that would include both races. As much as I wanted male Vieras, this sounds reasonable to me.

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Only problem with that is that before, we knew about Viera for quite a long time. We didn't know about Hrothgar. The expectation, then, was that there weren't going to be any beasts, and I'd say reasonably, people expected to be able to make a male Viera.

Now we're in a situation where people want male Viera, and on top of that, people want something they didn't know they wanted: female Hrothgar. So the amount of people left wanting is more than if they had just given us Viera.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I think you are missing his point. Try thinking of it this way, lets say you go out to eat, you're a very picky eater by the way, but you go out and only have a choice between a chicken or pork dish. You are told or its hinted to you by advertisements that you can get either fried or grilled/roasted. Perfect you like both chicken and pork, but think grilled chicken is too dry and fried pork too oily, so you can just choose from the other two options. However, once you get to the restaurant you find out that they only fry their pork and grill their chicken, which baffles you because how hard could it be to do, the other method. You get told "reasons" that admittedly make sense, but ultimately if this restaurant doesn't have any options for you you're probably going to find someplace else to eat. Granted this is a bit of an oversimplification but does present a similar expectation and dilemma. The two meat options are nice, but it's better to have the one option cooked two ways over the two options cooked only one way. It's this wierd dynamic where by limiting the options, you're creating a wider variety of options.

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Your example is terrible :/

Let me try to move it around ...

You're already at a joint, you enjoy it! It's got beer and whine and food and games and TV screens to watch the game on and even a karaoke stage! It's basically David Busters or Chucky Cheese. You get your favorite dish all the time (Potatoes I guess) and enjoy all the things you can do there. Now, they offer you 2 NEW dishes ... one's Shrimp and the other some kinda bird. You never came here before for shrimp because it was never offered and you don't eat that kinda bird ... you also enjoy your favorite dish and other activities here or else you would have stopped coming by now. They never promised you a shrimp dish before and when they showed the shrimp in an ad it was only shown cooked 1 way (Fried breaded shrimp). But now you're thinking of going someplace else because they don't make shrimp burgers?

Yeah, this is nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Insertcoins

I think what everyone is missing is that the Viera males would've been JUST like those choices tho. So noone would've been happy either way. " Why you make them like Elezens? " why do I say this? Cause YP already said thats how he'll make them and noone is honoring that. THey keep asking for options Yoshi is never going to make. Like child PCs.

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According to what I saw in support thread, most of active people there were okay with his "slim, handsome, elegant, more like Elezen with Miqo'te face" description ("more like Elezen" doesn't mean copy, I suppose he just wanted to give an idea. And since females seems to be mix of Hyur and Elezens, males could be similar to them). There were also people who wanted to see them shorter than females (which doesn't really mean that they have to look like children. Females are quite tall). And ofc there are people who wants to see another bulky race or wanted to see child model, but I doubt that they are even 1/3 of those who askes for males at all (can't say for sure, since I'm not telepath, and a lot of people don't write anything in threads or do not specify how they want to see them).

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Your example is terrible :/

Let me try to move it around ...

You're already at a joint, you enjoy it! It's got beer and whine and food and games and TV screens to watch the game on and even a karaoke stage! It's basically David Busters or Chucky Cheese. You get your favorite dish all the time (Potatoes I guess) and enjoy all the things you can do there. Now, they offer you 2 NEW dishes ... one's Shrimp and the other some kinda bird. You never came here before for shrimp because it was never offered and you don't eat that kinda bird ... you also enjoy your favorite dish and other activities here or else you would have stopped coming by now. They never promised you a shrimp dish before and when they showed the shrimp in an ad it was only shown cooked 1 way (Fried breaded shrimp). But now you're thinking of going someplace else because they don't make shrimp burgers?

Yeah, this is nonsense.

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Dav and busters? Do you live in Chicago too? And I always thoguht it was dav and busters... the more you learn....

MASSIVE EDIT. Ok.. I thought Dave and busters was only a chicago thing. MY BAD. Crap thats 2 mess ups in one day. TT.TT I'mma go cry in a corner now.