Bunny outfits for men, not a cryptid!

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Originally Posted by Hiruki

Are you serious?
I mean... They were working 2 years for a male outfit. They said that, but they did just a gender unlock.
But we can't complain about that? They don't need ideas, they just need to do it better or expose better what they're doing. Just that.

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Depends if the models were already existing otherwise it was like creating a new gear set basically. frankly considering how the dressing room forbids you to see gears that are not for your race/gender leads me to believe that those models simply does not exist and it's not a matter of simply flipping a switch, but don't quote me on that this is just a conjecture, actually if there are ppl that are more familiar to this I'd like them to tell me if I'm wrong

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Depends if the models were already existing otherwise it was like creating a new gear set basically. frankly considering how the dressing room forbids you to see gears that are not for your race/gender leads me to believe that those models simply does not exist and it's not a matter of simply flipping a switch, but don't quote me on that this is just a conjecture, actually if there are ppl that are more familiar to this I'd like them to tell me if I'm wrong

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The way I understand it, there's a wire mesh model created first and then they add the texture over it. And then if it moves in any way, they add physics to the parts that moves. So in this case, they would have to either modify the original model (if doable) or totally remake it if not.

https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-rigging-2095

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Originally Posted by Reinha

We told the dev team what we wanted on these forums as you can well see. I hope you're not trying to imply it's our fault if the CMs aren't doing their job of sending our feedback forward. And the thread my quotes were from had some pictures so don't blame the lack of examples either. (Not like professional designers with professional translators should need pictures to find out what a word means in the era of Google.)

What is likely the case here is that a unique outfit for males just wasn't as much in demand as a copy paste women's outfit for males. There is no helping it if one's opinion is unpopular, but it would be greatif fellow players didn't try to invalidate a viewpoint by pretending it didn't exist until now.

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This is exactly why we need communication back to see if they are understanding us or not, this is the very reason I have this thread:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Community-team

They do not talk to us, they just send us messages once in a while while hoping there is no communication break down on the way?

This for example:

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Originally Posted by dejiko_san

Well if no one actually told the Dev Team what they wanted, it would be easy to assume they just wanted a male bunny outfit. Is Chippendale even a thing in Japan? Perhaps going forward, people should have some kind of concept art to show Yoshi-P so the team doesn't mistake what the fans really want?

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Originally Posted by Serilda

I'd like nice shiny shorts or chaps with a collar/bow tie, cuffs and the bunny decorations. An alternate set of ears like the ladies have would be good. I would also personally like a version of the shorts (if they do shorts) with fishnets but understand if that is too risqué; it would go nicely with a lot of existing caster gear though which often pushes that particular envelope.

When someone released the thread requesting bare chested suspenders I wondered briefly whether we might get that instead of the bare chest and tie look. It could be interesting and since it wouldn't really be appropriate on female models, it would be a decent opportunity to use the idea.

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For "Is Chippendale even a thing in japan" it does not matter, it does not take long for them to look it up or even ask us, what do you mean by x y and z? (though I feel the quote I quoted explained it anyway)

https://i.imgur.com/cCyXS4V.gif

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Originally Posted by dejiko_san

The way I understand it, there's a wire mesh model created first and then they add the texture over it. And then if it moves in any way, they add physics to the parts that moves. So in this case, they would have to either modify the original model (if doable) or totally remake it if not.

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I went to a professional art institution and we had a program for game art & design as well there. I had several friends and a colleague who even went to do work for Guild Wars 2 specifically, she's done a lot of their gear designs and I've seen the programs used. Basically, it is what you had described but in a more simplistic form. They need to model a wired frame mesh which can take several hours to days, add and design textures themselves based on real life sources or references, and then apply accurate representations for motions which is a trial and error period. Some of these programs can take several hours towards a couple of days to properly render something as simple as an apple because you've got bugs that may come up during the process or errors because of a polygon being moved in the wrong direction or overlapping something else. They're very finicky programs to tinker with and the process is very long and tedious sometimes.

I don't envy people who work in the game design industry. I cringe and rage when Photoshop randomly crashes halfway through a project....I can only imagine the emotions someone would feel after something that takes 2 days to render and crashes at 100%.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Depends if the models were already existing otherwise it was like creating a new gear set basically. frankly considering how the dressing room forbids you to see gears that are not for your race/gender leads me to believe that those models simply does not exist and it's not a matter of simply flipping a switch, but don't quote me on that this is just a conjecture, actually if there are ppl that are more familiar to this I'd like them to tell me if I'm wrong

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Even if thats the case (which is probably is), I dont consider that a real valid explantion, given that during that 2 year period they've released multiple new glamours - basically copy-pasting the bunny outfit cant have been more complexe or complicated than designing and modeling all the glamour-stuff we got since they said they'd made the bunny outfit wearable by men.

What especially irks me here aswell is that with 3.2 they released the Expeditioners sets - Boots, Tabard and some pants for the girls and Boots, Coat, some pants and gloves for the guys.
...wait? Gloves for the guys?
Jep. Those were genderlocked at first.
Took them only a couple of months to "fix" that. Now I dont know if that was a mistake at first and they were always supposed to be for both so they already had the female models or if they started from scratch there, but its kinda... intresting that that happend so fast (yes, yes, only one item, only gloves) while the bunny outfit took 2 years.
A bit the same with all the "female only and unisex"-sets (like the Thavnair stuff, the Bridesmaid/Best Man outfit, the Spring-Dress and Sailor-Shirt). Especially for the last one (Sailor-stuff) Yoshi said that it was supposed to be male only, then he saw it and thought "Hey, that would look cute on girls too, make it unisex!" - apparently that was still managable and didnt took 2 years to adjust for the females...

And if thats the timeframe we should expect for genderlocks to be removed while also considering how Yoshi-P mentioned that they wanted to look into removing genderlocks in general, I have to ask: Why do they keep adding genderlocked gear in the first place? If that only means an aweful workload for them later?
At least they've gotten better with releasing male and female gear side by side, but if I truely am to believe that removing genderlocks from a set of gear takes 2 years... we probably never gonna see all sets being unlocked because the game will have been outlived before that...

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

I went to a professional art institution and we had a program for game art & design as well there. I had several friends and a colleague who even went to do work for Guild Wars 2 specifically, she's done a lot of their gear designs and I've seen the programs used. Basically, it is what you had described but in a more simplistic form. They need to model a wired frame mesh which can take several hours to days, add and design textures themselves based on real life sources or references, and then apply accurate representations for motions which is a trial and error period. Some of these programs can take several hours towards a couple of days to properly render something as simple as an apple because you've got bugs that may come up during the process or errors because a polygon being moved in the wrong direction or overlapping something else. They're very finicky programs to tinker with and the process is very long and tedious sometimes.

I don't envy people who work in the game design industry. I cringe and rage when Photoshop randomly crashes halfway through a project....I can only imagine the emotions someone would feel after something that takes 2 days to render and crashes at 100%.

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Thanks for the infos on the subject, they are appreciated

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Here you go. Now we can stop pretending no one at all wished for a bunny outfit for males that didn't look like women's clothes.

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Which was in response to someone saying

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The "male bunnysuit" should be a butler suit, not a dress, anyway.

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Since as we all know, men should only look like butlers (especially when there's already butler gear. Sarcasm, btw). This was also before I made my own Chippendale glamour. After I managed to make that, I no longer really wanted a Chippendale outfit exclusive for men... since the one I made is unisex.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Yeah, I'd definitely glamour as that for awhile.

Hell, I just posted on the Roe forum my chippendale glamour, so I'm even more for the fishnets.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Thanks for the infos on the subject, they are appreciated

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You are quite welcome. I wanted to go for game art and design at first....but, I didn't want to mess with those programs. Some of their projects had to be done in two weeks minimum and imagine the kind of stress that puts them under when your own rendering software takes two days or more to properly give you something to work with, if it didn't crash at all.

That's not even to mention that it may have taken them hours or days to properly make a mesh. It's a lot of finely detailed, tedious work that goes under-appreciated a lot.

couldn't it been tux bunny costume

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

couldn't it been tux bunny costume

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Put rabbit ears on top of: Loyal Butler gear, Best Man gear and Eternal/Wedding gear and you'll have what you want.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Here you go. Now we can stop pretending no one at all wished for a bunny outfit for males that didn't look like women's clothes.

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I already conceded that I missed people requesting a unique male version in an earlier post, but thank you.

The problem is you and the others requesting a unique male version of the outfit are vastly outnumbered by the people who either said they wanted exactly what females have (i.e. "remove the gender lock") or they didn't specify at all. Did you expect SE to wade through every single thread on the topic and pick out every iteration of the request? And even if they did, would you expect them to cater to the request of the minority (and if they did that, which request do they go with)? It wouldn't make sense for them to give us anything other than exactly what we've received since that's what the majority asked for as well as being the easiest one to implement.

... I'm not surprised in the least that the actual release of the bunny gear isn't the end of this.

I am also not looking forward to seeing this in my duties. Just personal preference, wear what you like but don't expect me to enjoy it or not complain about it.

Miquo'te, Postmoogle Hat, Storm Lieutenant's Jacket, Dragoon Zeta Relic

You are like someone wrote a how-to guide on how to make the most generic glamour possible.

Now before you object, let me remind you:

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Just personal preference, wear what you like but don't expect me to enjoy it or not complain about it.

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Originally Posted by Emstidor

Miquo'te, Postmoogle Hat, Storm Lieutenant's Jacket, Dragoon Zeta Relic

You are like someone wrote a how-to guide on how to make the most generic glamour possible.

Now before you object, let me remind you:

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You're welcome to your own opinion, that's great. I like what I'm wearing and I'm sure some don't. However I don't appreciate the implication i'm generic. I've never seen someone with the same combination and colors that I wear.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You're welcome to your own opinion, that's great. I like what I'm wearing and I'm sure some don't. However I don't appreciate the implication i'm generic. I've never seen someone with the same combination and colors that I wear.

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I think the point just whooshed right over your head man.

FYI my fashion critique may not be 100% serious, as evidenced by the literal flame pants I'm currently sporting. :p

That said generic may not be the best word, but the pieces I singled out do get used fairly often in my experience (Because they're good pieces!)

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

I think the point just whooshed right over your head man.

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"I'm going to call your personal choices generic because you don't like what I wanted to wear"?
I think I got it. I'm not JUDGING anyone who chooses to wear this, but i will state I'm not looking forward to the amount of people who are going to be wearing this and making my dungeon runs into a visual clashing nightmare for my personal tastes. Will I SAY anything to these people? Likely not, unless they start humping my character or doing other suggestive things.
Go ahead and tell me you don't like how I look. Don't tell me I'm just like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Emstidor

FYI my fashion critique may not be 100% serious, as evidenced by the literal flame pants I'm currently sporting. :p

That said generic may not be the best word, but the pieces I singled out do get used fairly often in my experience (Because they're good pieces!)

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I will not argue that, yes I use a lot of "popular" pieces. I appreciate the clarification though.

Now this thread is about how the outfit impact in our visuals tastes?! LMAO.

I remember when I got my first house in Shirogane, and a stupid FC went there as my neighbors. Guess what? They were using a non-shirogane style of house.
I hate them, so much. They even had a pink roof with something large on it. They ruined my days there.
I wished their death. And when new wards opened, that stupid fc was gone, I was happy again. ♥

My point is, it will hurt just the first months, then even they will be get bored about it and they'll change the glam.
But again, SE lied about the glam and now we have this. And we have to EVEN be glad for have it.

So... SMILE.

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Originally Posted by Hiruki

But again, SE lied about the glam and now we have this. And we have to EVEN be glad for have it.

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When did they lie?

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Originally Posted by Hiruki

Now this thread is about how the outfit impact in our visuals tastes?! LMAO.

I remember when I got my first house in Shirogane, and a stupid FC went there as my neighbors. Guess what? They were using a non-shirogane style of house.
I hate them, so much. They even had a pink roof with something large on it. They ruined my days there.
I wished their death. And when new wards opened, that stupid fc was gone, I was happy again. ♥

My point is, it will hurt just the first months, then even they will be get bored about it and they'll change the glam.
But again, SE lied about the glam and now we have this. And we have to EVEN be glad for have it.

So... SMILE.

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......You freaked out because someone was using a non-Shirogane style house in Shirogane with a pink roof? Something that doesn't affect or impact your gameplay at all? And....you wished death on them..?

.....I keep forgetting the kinds of nuts that also play this online game with me. Christ almighty with mangos.... ఠ_ఠ

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

......You freaked out because someone was using a non-Shirogane style house in Shirogane with a pink roof? Something that doesn't affect or impact your gameplay at all? And....you wished death on them..?

.....I keep forgetting the kinds of nuts that also play this online game with me. Christ almighty with mangos.... ఠ_ఠ

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They give people options for housing, so of course people will use what they want. Yeah, I'm not really seeing the problem. Their post was an overreaction. I was sitting next to a moogle house for close to a year in Goblet. Despite the fact this game has made me hate moogles, it didn't bother me at all. My neighbor was also quite friendly the few times I ran into them. They even crafted pants for me once.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

They give people options for housing, so of course people will use what they want. Yeah, I'm not really seeing the problem. Their post was an overreaction. I was sitting next to a moogle house for close to a year in Goblet. Despite the fact this game has made me hate moogles, it didn't bother me at all. My neighbor was also quite friendly the few times I ran into them. They even crafted pants for me once.

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I have a neighbor in my own Shirogane ward that has a Carbuncle house near my small and there's someone with a Moogle house near my fiance's house in Goblet. As long as they don't actively try to troll or impact me in any way in-game, I don't care what they do to their house. Their gil, their sub, whatever floats their boat.

It's amazing how wound up some people are over trivial things.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

I have a neighbor in my own Shirogane ward that has a Carbuncle house near my small and there's someone with a Moogle house near my fiance's house in Goblet. As long as they don't actively try to troll or impact me in any way in-game, I don't care what they do to their house. Their gil, their sub, whatever floats their boat.

It's amazing how wound up some people are over trivial things.

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I'm sick to death of running around my little area in the ward and seeing Moogle, Chocobo, and Carbuncle-themed everything, but the poor taste of my neighbors just makes my plain old wooden mansion look that much better... :P Live and let live IMO. I think the sweater ensembles and endless variations on the Shisui sets are the epitome of generic but it doesn't affect how I enjoy the game. I get pleasantly surprised when someone puts together a good-looking outfit using those pieces too sometimes.

I'm not looking forward to the dudes in fishnets invasion in 4.3 but I will happily use the ears and cuffs to create an ensemble that is sure to be god-awful to someone out there.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

......You freaked out because someone was using a non-Shirogane style house in Shirogane with a pink roof? Something that doesn't affect or impact your gameplay at all? And....you wished death on them..?

.....I keep forgetting the kinds of nuts that also play this online game with me. Christ almighty with mangos.... ఠ_ఠ

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Hey, you calm down. You took me LIKE so serious, when I was trying to say something exagerate for a simple laugh about how is going this thread.

I never when to them and told them "Yo, you know what? I have several problems with your tastes. I wish you that you all die."
That expresion was for something like, "I hope that they go to s**t righ now." I wasn't litereally hoping for their deaths in the real life or something, either mention any of this in game to them. LOL

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When did they lie?

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When they said that they was working on a male edition of it? And we're getting a unlock gender for it, maybe?

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Originally Posted by Hiruki

When they said that they was working on a male edition of it? And we're getting a unlock gender for it, maybe?

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Which is exactly what they said they were doing.

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Q. Are you adding something different for men?

A. No. If we try to maintain that equity as a policy, we'll have to make most equipment unisex, and on top of that it'll require more development time and we'll have to cut the amount of total gear we can implement. At the moment we are working to get rid of the gender lock for bunny suits for men.

Q. So men and women are going to be able to equip it?

A.Yes. The NA community had an especially high demand so we thought we should do it. Our female staff is putting hard work into creating it.

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Originally Posted by Hiruki

Hey, you calm down. You took me LIKE so serious, when I was trying to say something exagerate for a simple laugh about how is going this thread.

I never when to them and told them "Yo, you know what? I have several problems with your tastes. I wish you that you all die."
That expresion was for something like, "I hope that they go to s**t righ now." I wasn't litereally hoping for their deaths in the real life or something, either mention any of this in game to them. LOL

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The exaggeration wasn't funny then and it still isn't now..? I mean, you do you, but...I'm way too old to follow high school humor anymore and it still wasn't funny back then either.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

I'm not looking forward to the dudes in fishnets invasion in 4.3 but I will happily use the ears and cuffs to create an ensemble that is sure to be god-awful to someone out there.

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Is the pleasure in the fact you like the outfit or in the fact you know someone else will hate it?

I'm reasonably sure you're wearing it for your own enjoyment and hopeful you're not putting together things simply to offend others sensibilities but I'm genuinely curious if I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by Hiruki

Hey, you calm down. You took me LIKE so serious, when I was trying to say something exagerate for a simple laugh about how is going this thread.

I never when to them and told them "Yo, you know what? I have several problems with your tastes. I wish you that you all die."
That expresion was for something like, "I hope that they go to s**t righ now." I wasn't litereally hoping for their deaths in the real life or something, either mention any of this in game to them. LOL

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This isn't funny at all.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

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Q. Are you adding something different for men?

A. No. If we try to maintain that equity as a policy, we'll have to make most equipment unisex, and on top of that it'll require more development time and we'll have to cut the amount of total gear we can implement. At the moment we are working to get rid of the gender lock for bunny suits for men.

Q. So men and women are going to be able to equip it?

A.Yes. The NA community had an especially high demand so we thought we should do it. Our female staff is putting hard work into creating it.

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Which is exactly what they said they were doing.

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So why is anything gender locked then?

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

So why is anything gender locked then?

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Become an interviewer and ask Yoshi-P that yourself (though I think he answered your question in what you didn't bold.

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and on top of that it'll require more development time and we'll have to cut the amount of total gear we can implement.

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So if they did decide to make Edda's gear unisex, it probably wouldn't be out for another year or something (assuming they only have their female staff work on making gear originally meant for a female NPC work on males).

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Originally Posted by Nestama

So if they did decide to make Edda's gear unisex,

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I'd settle for them giving us a male equivalent, doesn't have to be that exact same thing. And if they do go with Edda, PLEASE don't make it a copy-paste of it. That said, if they did that, all the female charas would start complaining it's locked for them and then SE will invest that design time in making it unisex anyway.
Quick, someone tell SE female charas dig masculine gear too, maybe then we'll get some worthwhile male glamour in here.

Question is, what exactly do you want them to make (and is it something that only female staff members will be comfortable with making)? Let's not forget SE has made gear that was technically meant to be male exclusive, but then decided to make them unisex because they figured female characters can rock the look just as well.

Best Man, Thavnairian Bolero, Sailor stuff to name a few.

The 'opposite' to Edda would be Nybeth Obdilord's gear.
https://i.imgur.com/FbWprUl.jpg

I thought the male equivalent for Edda gear was Hildy gear, is that not the case? To my knowledge they are both undyable and cost the same amount of money.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I thought the male equivalent for Edda gear was Hildy gear, is that not the case? To my knowledge they are both undyable and cost the same amount of money.

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And one is highly requested and I see pieces of it all over the place, the other I only saw on an Inspector Hildibrand NPC wannabe.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

and is it something that only female staff members will be comfortable with making

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No. But the more I think about it the more I see them redesigning Edda into another suit and I can do well enough without it.

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Best Man, Thavnairian Bolero, Sailor stuff to name a few.

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Ugh don't remind me. The first one hurts all the more if only because of the name lmao.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I thought the male equivalent for Edda gear was Hildy gear, is that not the case? To my knowledge they are both undyable and cost the same amount of money.

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Hildibrands gear is technically unisex (unless you mean the sorry excuse that is the "torn up" gear).

Edit: yeah, looking them up, the Manderville Coatee and Bottoms are unisex and you get them in the final ARR Hildibrand quest (they're just reskins of crafting gear).

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

No. But the more I think about it the more I see them redesigning Edda into another suit and I can do well enough without it.

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And if they did make it, I would not be surprised if that turned out to be unisex, or people demanded it to be unisex .-.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

would you expect them to cater to the request of the minority (and if they did that, which request do they go with)?

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No. Like I already said I just expect other players to not be unreasonable towards those of us who are disappointed with this outfit. We voiced our feedback in the appropriate place at the appropriate time and went into enough detail, but it simply wasn't enough this time. That doesn't mean we can't continue to voice our disapproval in hopes that someday we'll be heard (and maybe get a unique and good looking male-only outfit).

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

They do not talk to us, they just send us messages once in a while while hoping there is no communication break down on the way?

For "Is Chippendale even a thing in japan" it does not matter, it does not take long for them to look it up or even ask us, what do you mean by x y and z? (though I feel the quote I quoted explained it anyway)

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I agree that there is a lot to improve in the way they communicate with us. They have a lot of events and publicity stunts to keep people excited, but a lot of feedback from Reddit and here seems to vanish in translation or just not make it to the short Q&A sessions. And yeah the cultural disconnect shouldn't be there when they have CMs from all over the world to help them understand things.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Hildibrands gear is technically unisex (unless you mean the sorry excuse that is the "torn up" gear).

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Yeah I meant the torn up costume on the Mog Station. Not saying that's a fair counterpart to Edda's gear, but that was my impression when I saw it on the Lodestone. Hopefully it's just another NPC outfit and we'll get a better and more creepy PotD set for males.

It's how the world is. A woman in real world can put on just about any clothes and no one will laugh at her for wearing "a mans clothes". A man can put on some of the clothes that are considered woman-only and he'll be mocked to high heaven, even if that piece is a variation on pants which historically came about as male clothing originally.

It is how it is. There is no such thing as male-only clothing in real life, so any sort of male-only clothing in game would feel forced. There is a lot of female-only clothing in real life, so obviously there will be the same in game. The only difference is that people that want to wear it anyway in real life usually won't, because they still care about their opinion enough to not, while in game they wouldn't, so it must be locked out artificially to prevent half of the populace using drag queen glamour for kicks and giggles.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

It's how the world is.

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1. The world was not always like this, you yourself admitted as much with the pants example. Things can change.
2. There are movements all over the world fighting to change how the world is. That's defeatist attitude right there, what you're saying. So yeah, we're not going to move mountains with our little video game revolution. But dammit let me wear more glamours, I'm even willing to pay for them!

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There is a lot of female-only clothing in real life, so obviously there will be the same in game.

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Eddy Izzard was once asked about wearing women's dresses. His reply was - they're not women's dresses, they're my dresses.

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The only difference is that people that want to wear it anyway in real life usually won't, because they still care about their opinion enough to not

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People don't wear what they want to in real life because then they might be beaten, stabbed, kicked out of their houses or murdered. Part of why people want to have those options within the relatively safe environment of a video game where they can block the naysayers without fearing for their lives.

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using drag queen glamour for kicks and giggles.

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Not saying there won't be those people, but there will also be a lot of people who wear it as legitimate gender expression.

SE should charge 50-75 USD for the outfit. Sure, players will complain, but they're so thirsty that they'll pony up the cash anyway. Kind of like furries.