JP server player is calling us out. Step up, NA endgamers.

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Originally Posted by Madjames

Telling people to step up to a wannabe raid is snarky. I simply stated a fact. If people want to step up, then go to 10/25 man hardmode Ulduar (Including Algalon) and ICC in relevant gear and level then come back to me and talk about raids. Or go to the BC raids.

Sorry to say but this game's raids are not raids and never will be. Not when other games (Including some F2P MMOs) are offering much bigger, more bosses, and challenging raids that make this game look sad. It is kinda sad when a F2P game offers twice the bosses per raid that is on equal footing when it comes to challenge when compared to this game. I say, SE needs to step up and give us our raids and end game content back.

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Hmmm... You say endgame content back... When did FFXIV delivered the endgame you want? Because I think it was NEVER designed to lean in that way to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Maybe because this game is almost exact replica of WoW with a few things changed here and there? When you're playing GTA V and Saints Row IV you're obviously going to be making comparisons between the two, "GTA could borrow this element" and so on because they're very similar games. The same applies to FFXIV and WoW, but dare someone mention any game that isn't FFXIV on here and they'll get shat on because FFXIV is quite superior to all of them, especially FFXI. I don't know why people despise people suggesting they implement things from FFXI, they act like the poster threatened their family.

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All Final Fantasies from 1 to 10 are exact replicas of one another with a few things changed here and there. Still, TOTALLY different niches, approachs and systems. This is no excuse to want FFXIV to be EVEN more like World of Warcraft.

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Originally Posted by Madjames

Hmmmm yeah no. I do NOT want a generic spin-off. I want EQUAL content. F2P games are giving their players 3-4 times as many bosses per raid tier as this game. That is NOT ok to me and never will be. SE needs to step up and give us more content plain and simple. It is kinda sad when a F2P game offeres more content then a subscription game. This has nothing to do with changing the way the game works as the game already follows t he end game raiding as every other MMORPG has for the past 9 years.

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From what we can see of 3.1 and the changes they`re making to craft and raid gear on 3.2 forward, that`s NOT the way they're thinking. We are getting closer to a proper horizontal progression and choice of equips, wich also gives even more choice of content we want or do not want to do. Raids will be just one more of that content. That's what a themepark RPG should be about: diversity.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

All Final Fantasies from 1 to 10 are exact replicas of one another with a few things changed here and there. Still, TOTALLY different niches, approachs and systems. This is no excuse to want FFXIV to be EVEN more like World of Warcraft.

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You do realize that if they take a different approach with different systems, they're not exact replicas? The only thing they have in common are a few staple JRPG elements and the combat style, but if you're going to claim it's an exact replica from that, I guess all action games are the same game now?

WoW and FFXIV have far more similarities to each other than FF1 and FF10 did, Yoshida himself admits it when talking about 1.0, and definitely took this way of thinking into FFXIV ARR.

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I think it would've been good if they tried seeing what happened if they turned World of Warcraft into Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

All Final Fantasies from 1 to 10 are exact replicas of one another with a few things changed here and there. Still, TOTALLY different niches, approachs and systems. This is no excuse to want FFXIV to be EVEN more like World of Warcraft.

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At this point it's all a competition between SE and Blizz on who can outdo each other when it comes to dumbing down their own games.

If I remember FFXI (although I hated the combat system a LOT) had a lot of emphrasis on the open world rather then shoving everyone in instances. If I remember correctly you couldn't do anything alone.

This probably made the endgame much better, because when you started the game your already used to working with other players. However in FFXIV you don't need anyone for anything until 60, then you get to alexander and now you suddenly have to party up?

Most of the game:
- Solo
- Duty Finder, never have to talk to anyone.
- Fates, never have to talk to anyone.

FFXIV probably is the most anti-social MMO I have ever played.

Anyways, when your early game requires no partying up for anything and the "hard" stuff requires partying up... I don't think its NA's problem.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Hmmm... You say endgame content back... When did FFXIV delivered the endgame you want? Because I think it was NEVER designed to lean in that way to begin with.

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This game followed the SAME path as every other MMORPG has for the past 9 years now. The difference is not how it is designed differently because it isnt. The difference is how much content is given to us players. FF14 is sadly not keeping up with their competitors games, OR F2P games for that matter that again, offer 2-3 times the content, bosses, and raids in a single patch then the equivalent of SE patches. It is sadly true and very alarming.

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Originally Posted by Madjames

This game followed the SAME path as every other MMORPG has for the past 9 years now.

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Pretty much. FFXIV is pretty much a themepark with a Final Fantasy Skin, its even more streamlined and instanced then WoW.

MMOs were pretty unique 2002-2006, after that they began to all follow the same pattern.

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Originally Posted by Madjames

Telling people to step up to a wannabe raid is snarky. I simply stated a fact. If people want to step up, then go to 10/25 man hardmode Ulduar (Including Algalon) and ICC in relevant gear and level then come back to me and talk about raids. Or go to the BC raids.

Sorry to say but this game's raids are not raids and never will be. Not when other games (Including some F2P MMOs) are offering much bigger, more bosses, and challenging raids that make this game look sad. It is kinda sad when a F2P game offers twice the bosses per raid that is on equal footing when it comes to challenge when compared to this game. I say, SE needs to step up and give us our raids and end game content back.

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So then why do you play or what do you even do when you play?

Btw I can say the same about WOWs raids and most tab targettig mmos raids where hardly any cognitive reflexes sre nedded if you wanna take a condescending tone, Tera's raids were way more hardcore than wows whos are catered to old dudes whos cognitive reflexes were shot
Please note this isnt an insult to anyone just a ridiculous comparison

Since when did offering small 1 hit wonder 4 bosses per raid become acceptable when other games on the market now (Many F2P games even which is sad) are offering 10-15 bosses per raid? How is getting less content for the same price acceptable? To me it isnt and I am pretty certain others agree with me.

i'm amused by some people around here, like the one saying previous raid of WoW was harder and give as exemple Ulduar and ICC....
if you want to be believed give true example of hard content, like Naxx vanilla or AQ40...

only 3 factor make a raid hard:
- the number of people you can gather, get the same people do the same content make it easier, if not it gonna be pain
- the number of time per week you can do it. more means more experience
- the balance of the fight, some fight are simply tuned in a way for make them harder by adding artificial way to make it hard like OS skill and berserk.

outside this, no raid is really hard, and i already see people coming here saying, you haven't done BC and stuff like this, i haven't the 1 step, making hard to find a way to do this sort of content, means i have drop them totally.

i do see too people say, yeah wow did offer 12-13 boss per raid, not always... it's more between 8-11 boss per raid (some raid having less boss) but what is important it's the time between the add of this raid, often you do wait between 6-8 month (i will not talk of the ridiculous time people did wait at the end of pandaria for get the expansion).

i don't say FF14 do better, but at least we do have more patch per years that WoW can offer... you can argue that is not always good enough for Endgame player and i will answer this truth that any hardcore player know:

No dev team can beat the speed of completion of a good hardcore player group... they can try to slow them down, by adding tons of boss, or putting crazy mechanic that will recquire perfect execution, but in the end, the hardcore group will beat the dev at this. they have, most of the time, the same group, play 4-6 evening per week... you can't simply satisfy any endgame and hardcore game player anymore, why? because this sort of player now have a huge experience of different endgame from other game. it hard to create mechanic totally news and unseen before. (it's doable but really really hard)

but i digress, they are right, the endgame player (not all) have become selfish and quite harsh on new player... the best example is this demand to add a no first timer option on the party finder...

ps: don't start me with the speed of add of content for the f2p some have 1-2 years between add...
by the way a small point you seems to miss, per patch we do get 4 raid boss (if you don't count the primal) but in the same time the other receive a new raid we do get 3 patch.... meaning 12 potential boss if you add the primal the number are a bit more.


pss: and one point for Madjames, if wow is soo much better, why play FF14?

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Originally Posted by dank1

So then why do you play or what do you even do when you play?

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I mine for 8-10 hours straight on my days off. I run dungeons with friends, do primals, and run regular Alex when I feel like it. I will never touch any hard mode raid until it becomes and actual raid, period.

silentwindfr

All raids are programmed this way. ICC and Ulduar (Including Algalon) were hard. BC and vanilla raids were hard and left little room for error.

It is NOT about how hard or easy the raids are. It is what we as consumers are getting for our money compared to other games on the Market. You do realize a few F2P games are offering twice to three times as many bosses per raid teirs when we get.....4 with no trash mobs? That is a F2P game. How is that acceptable when I am paying a subscription? The simple fact is that it isnt. I am simply advocating for more content in the end game department to at least keep up with a F2P competitor or a Sub based game of equal standing because right now, I will not accept getting less content and less quality for the game price, ever.

Its like buying a car that costs 50k+ with roll up windows. When another car of a different brand but costs the same with equal reliability rating HAS power up windows, and doors, and even more features then the first car, and instead of a 4 cylinder has a V6 turbo charged engine. The simple fact is that with the first car you are clearly not getting your moneys worth and most people would go with the second vehicle. I know for 50k I want my moneys worth. If both cars are equal in reliability over a 5 year span then it comes down to engine performance first and how much horsepower it has, followed by features and which ever one offers more gets my money. That is how I am looking at this here.

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Originally Posted by dank1

So then why do you play or what do you even do when you play?

Btw I can say the same about WOWs raids and most tab targettig mmos raids where hardly any cognitive reflexes sre nedded if you wanna take a condescending tone, Tera's raids were way more hardcore than wows whos are catered to old dudes whos cognitive reflexes were shot

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What else is there?

Mostly all modern MMOs are Themeparks, save a few which have their own problems.

give me a F2P game that offer the same number of boss you say on the same period of time, that nice to say they offer with one patch 12 boss, but if you must wait 1 years behind for get another add, pointless.

I'm pretty sure I can't talk for the NA or even EU (I'm Finnish) but I don't tend to ask from others before I've done everything I can on my own, think and learn about every aspect of a fight (or anything really) and so on. Though that might just be because this is a part of Finnish culture: to not want to be a bother, and being very embarrassed to ask for help.

My point here is that people not asking all the specifics before even trying something does not imply they don't care. On the other hand I can understand the JP side of wanting to show only your good side, not bringing shame to your name and your friends' names. It makes them look a bit less "human" in my eyes, not necessarily a bad thing, but just very uncanny to me.

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Originally Posted by Madjames

Since when did offering small 1 hit wonder 4 bosses per raid become acceptable when other games on the market now (Many F2P games even which is sad) are offering 10-15 bosses per raid? How is getting less content for the same price acceptable? To me it isnt and I am pretty certain others agree with me.

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Well, I mean... Blizzard DID release a one patch expansion and still managed to make MORE money off of it despite their biggest drop of subscription numbers in a small amount of time.

Just saying.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

give me a F2P game that offer the same number of boss you say on the same period of time, that nice to say they offer with one patch 12 boss, but if you must wait 1 years behind for get another add, pointless.

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I have never had to wait a year for a patch that only offered 1 raid with 10-15 bosses, Ever, not in my 18 years of playing MMORPG's.

SWOTR a F2P game comes out with a patch roughly the same amount of time as SE and even their raids have more bosses and end game content then SE's patches and that, is freaking sad.

Understand that I am also not some hardcore elitist person who rushes through content. Wow's patch Cycles were perfect for me and my raid groups. We had every raid on farm for around 3 weeks to a month before the next raid tier patch and we progressed through it all.

Lastly, I have yet to see a content patch that is on par with their competitors when it comes to end game content. 3.1 for example is right on par with a content patch cycle in regards to time, when compared to wow and SWTOR and they are offering again, one raid for 24 people. Who knows how many bosses are in their? From the going rate of things, I am guessing 4-6 at the MOST raid bosses with no trash in between and all 1 hit wonder bosses. Compare that to a SWTOR or WOW content patch and you will see, when it comes to end game raiding, you are clearly not getting your moneys worth in this area compared to SE's competitors.

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Originally Posted by Roegadyn_Bear

Well, I mean... Blizzard DID release a one patch expansion and still managed to make MORE money off of it despite their biggest drop of subscription numbers in a small amount of time.

Just saying.

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I quit at the end of MOP. WoD was just......Downright horrible.

And this whole thread is exactly the reason why a better NA community isn't gonna happen. Yet another derailment.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

And this whole thread is exactly the reason why a better NA community isn't gonna happen. Yet another derailment.

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I'm waiting for the thread to be inevitably Godwin'd.

First problem: Zero messures to teach a player without a third program.

How do you teach a player who is underperforming if you are unable to show numbers or he is unable to check it?
Tooltips are not helpful a lot.

Example: One friend has a bard in his savage group and he is underperforming. He play in ps3 or ps4, doesn't matter. Their group was unable to kill a1s until recently. I asked a fflog to check what happened. The first check: he didn't put dots on oppresor and 0.5. He barely used Iron Jaws and a few more mistakes easily put right. I told to him -"Ask me if you have any problem or situation, your gear, party composition or also placement"- I received zero questions and zero interest to improve. They killed a1s due 200+ gear and put the effort into healers and tanks.

I leveled one alter bard, same as my main Savage character. It's 190+ and i joined a few a1s "down", "clear", "enrage exp", etc. My bard is not well geared, but still more than the first time i killed a1s. I have eso wep and i hadn't in my main. In some runs i did more dps than 200+ ilvl.

The last night, i met a blm in Vault, lvl 57 dungeon. He only used fire III if firestarter procs. He casted blizzard III correctly to fill mp, but used fire i losing umbral stack, and again fire I to gain Astral stack. I explained him a 2.0 rotation and he was receptive and thankful. The fact is not the guy did a bad rotation, the problem was nobody in 57 level during dungeons or leveling say nothing about their rotation. Sometimes i write "ironic" answers in chat like "overpower/flare/grenado shot/flash/unleash are overrated".

Parsers are a tool and easy way to fix mistakes and dps behaviors. In a lot of runs, you don't need parsers to check something is wrong. Bards without dots, smn without shadowflare or banes, ice mages, tanks single targets and let the party handle with others mobs. I am a hardcore, tryharder, elitist and others adjectives, but i am helpful if a player deserve my time. One behavior i see that is wrong. You try to fix or give advice to a player who does horrible, then the party marks you as an elitist. -"let him play as he wants", -"Shut up and play, who cares about 50 mins run party, just finish and move on"-. You discover now how bad players are in DF and they got max level with zero knowledge.

We need critical sense about us and others players. It's easily to blame others but it's our fault too if we let others players do wrong and we don't criticize their behavior like watch a tv-serie meanwhile you are spamming one ability and your party is carrying you.

TL; DR: The first step to teach others players is get a ingame parser. Show numbers and they would check how they are going.

Rappa, I agree with you. We just need addons.

@ rappa
please explain how ff11 plauers taught other players?? most were ps2/360 plauers only a NA community was mainly pc. ff11 was on ps2 JP first for a year.
please explain how MUD plauer teach? there are no parser nor addons are allowed?'
Please explain how EQ players help teAch or any Post WoW game? Addons started at WoW tro my knowledge. People didn't talk of addons till post WoW which had alot of eq and ultima players.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

@ rappa
please explain how ff11 plauers taught other players?? most were ps2/360 plauers only a NA community was mainly pc. ff11 was on ps2 JP first for a year.
please explain how MUD plauer teach? there are no parser nor addons are allowed?'
Please explain how EQ players help teAch or any Post WoW game? Addons started at WoW tro my knowledge. People didn't talk of addons till post WoW which had alot of eq and ultima players.

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Those games werent build the same way as raids are now. Raids now are a lot more dps check oriented

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Originally Posted by rappa

First problem: Zero messures to teach a player without a third program.

How do you teach a player who is underperforming if you are unable to show numbers or he is unable to check it?
Tooltips are not helpful a lot.

Example: One friend has a bard in his savage group and he is underperforming. He play in ps3 or ps4, doesn't matter. Their group was unable to kill a1s until recently. I asked a fflog to check what happened. The first check: he didn't put dots on oppresor and 0.5. He barely used Iron Jaws and a few more mistakes easily put right. I told to him -"Ask me if you have any problem or situation, your gear, party composition or also placement"- I received zero questions and zero interest to improve. They killed a1s due 200+ gear and put the effort into healers and tanks.

I leveled one alter bard, same as my main Savage character. It's 190+ and i joined a few a1s "down", "clear", "enrage exp", etc. My bard is not well geared, but still more than the first time i killed a1s. I have eso wep and i hadn't in my main. In some runs i did more dps than 200+ ilvl.

The last night, i met a blm in Vault, lvl 57 dungeon. He only used fire III if firestarter procs. He casted blizzard III correctly to fill mp, but used fire i losing umbral stack, and again fire I to gain Astral stack. I explained him a 2.0 rotation and he was receptive and thankful. The fact is not the guy did a bad rotation, the problem was nobody in 57 level during dungeons or leveling say nothing about their rotation. Sometimes i write "ironic" answers in chat like "overpower/flare/grenado shot/flash/unleash are overrated".

Parsers are a tool and easy way to fix mistakes and dps behaviors. In a lot of runs, you don't need parsers to check something is wrong. Bards without dots, smn without shadowflare or banes, ice mages, tanks single targets and let the party handle with others mobs. I am a hardcore, tryharder, elitist and others adjectives, but i am helpful if a player deserve my time. One behavior i see that is wrong. You try to fix or give advice to a player who does horrible, then the party marks you as an elitist. -"let him play as he wants", -"Shut up and play, who cares about 50 mins run party, just finish and move on"-. You discover now how bad players are in DF and they got max level with zero knowledge.

We need critical sense about us and others players. It's easily to blame others but it's our fault too if we let others players do wrong and we don't criticize their behavior like watch a tv-serie meanwhile you are spamming one ability and your party is carrying you.

TL; DR: The first step to teach others players is get a ingame parser. Show numbers and they would check how they are going.

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Actually you don't need parsers. If the game was not so solo based and the content in the beginning was a lot harder you are "forced" to improve your character. When your fighting solo mobs that can barely even hurt you. It really doesn't teach you how to DPS.

In Everquest for example, you didn't do enough DPS? Tough, your dead. You should get some help, or learn to play better. Which, made players suprisingly better.

I didn't play FFXI or Everquest. I started playing MMO's with Daoc and WoW. I can't say how others players taught in that games.
As far i know, we learnt with trial and error. Some players had more time to invest than others and they tested rotations. It's pure math.

I played wow and one of the first addon to download was recount. I am a competitive player and i have to test what i am doing. Numbers without a scale don't show anything.

Sometimes you don't need a parser to check what is going wrong. The best example is a BLM only casting Fire III and Blizzard III. Fire III 3.5 cast against Fire I 2.5 cast and less mp cost with the chance to get a free Fire III.


#Nektulos-Tuor: As i said, parsers are the easy way to show how is going the run and who is not doing correctly. Obviously, don't kill the boss before enrage, or take long time to be killed are a "big alert".

Parsers are the same as car control panel or dashboard (sorry i don't know the correct word). Your car suddenly stopped, you know something is wrong. You can blame tires, the wheel, direction, bateries or others component. With the car control, you check your gas is low and you need recharge it and took less than a minute.

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Originally Posted by rappa

I didn't play FFXI or Everquest. I started playing MMO's with Daoc and WoW. I can't say how others players taught in that games.
As far i know, we learnt with trial and error. Some players had more time to invest than others and they tested rotations. It's pure math.

I played wow and one of the first addon to download was recount. I am a competitive player and i have to test what i am doing. Numbers without a scale don't show anything.

Sometimes you don't need a parser to check what is going wrong. The best example is a BLM only casting Fire III and Blizzard III. Fire III 3.5 cast against Fire I 2.5 cast and less mp cost with the chance to get a free Fire III.

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The game has a 2.5 GCD. Its not hard to see a pattern of your damage to see which results produce more damage. However the current content does not really punish you for being slow.

If for example, the game had contested dungeons. You are forced to clear the monsters and bosses fast before rooms respawn. If you were too slow, the rooms would respawn and you would be overwhelmed and lose.

I played games before there were things like Parses and Threat meters. I find them more crutches then anything else and honestly you don't need them.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

First off in ff11 you didn't need to do endgame Ff11 story was optional as well, you log on and level up did quests for fame/gil.

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^ This is wrong because you needed levels to get mission to unlock other areas of the game. The Goal was to unlock more story to complete the game. You hunted HNM's to get gear to prepare you for Raids. Everything you did was to lead you to the end.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

you did rank missions to open endgame up such as dynamis, sky, sea etc. BUT the gear and weapons were optional and didn't need it to play. each story expac was stand alone and required none of the gear in endgame to play it. Like you didn't need dynamis gear to play in sky, you didn't need sky gear to play in sea. Infact i met entire cap linkshells who opted out of endgame. FF11 had alot of content you could do outside of endgame.

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Every MMO is the same way you get gear to push to towards the end and it is ALWAYS only good until the next expansion. So was the way you unlocked new content. FFXI was not "Optional" the "Missions" were not "Optional" You needed them to progress otherwise there was no reason to play. Even hunting HNM's were for acquiring gear to prepare you for raiding so explain to me these "options" and don't mention PvP. After completing the missions to unlock the Raiding you either stood around town, crafting or leveled another job none of which constituted as a "Viable option". Even the Merit system was designed to build you for endgame.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

In every mmo i played endgame was an option not a goal, only mmo like this was WoW which was you level up then raided.

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This leads me to believe you don't "Play" MMO's you "Sample" them never finishing anything you start otherwise you'd know Endgame was ALWAYS the Goal until FF14.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

What I'm trying to point out, is your acting like a typical WoW forum going who take people at face value and measure their worth on that. Your acting like i have no right to an opinion because at face value "i'm a level 50 with no endgame experience". And not admiting that you are just stating fallacies that WoW player think of ff11.

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No one is judging you on "Face Value" from the claims you've made to the way to explain yourself is more than enough to know you speak with a novice tongue like most of the people on these forums. (p.s. grammar Nazi it's "You're") <-- cuz that's what WoW forums trolls do.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

So please stop acting high and mighty with your so called game experience that honestly sounds like lies to me.

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Speaking with confidence and assurance isn't acting "high and mighty" which shows me you lack the social skills to differentiate. I'm not the best player by far but I don't come on these forums opening my mouth haphazardly like some upset little child who hasn't developed proper reasoning skills. The fact that you would even say i'm "Lying" proves just that. BTW my Achievements are unlocked.

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Originally Posted by rappa

TL; DR: The first step to teach others players is get a ingame parser. Show numbers and they would check how they are going.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Anyways, when your early game requires no partying up for anything and the "hard" stuff requires partying up... I don't think its NA's problem.

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99% solo game and parser? really?
those reasons don't work guys. Why? Because the JP community plays the same game and we have the results to proof it.
their clear of hard group content is better than NA despite all the solo content, and they also don't have an in game parser.

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Originally Posted by zosia

As soon as other NA players become considerate of other people's time and show up prepared, just like JP players do when they pug.

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http://www.brainyquote.com/photos/l/...stoy105644.jpg

The inherent difference in culture and environment in the two countries that individuals are brought up in are more than enough of an obvious distinction to their psychological mind frame in task orientation.

By the age that people play this game, they've already ingrained into their personalities and psychologies which the two communities as a whole obviously differ.

Train to become good & carry me please majorities, we can see which community has more of which with the exodus of people from savage....

Alexander savage is the actual challenge and i don't remember the exactly percent but i read about 5% community cleared savage. Disheartening.


SE promoted the lack of interest on Raid scene. back to 2.2, Second Coil is released, best gear is 110 and soldiery items are 100. Three months after SCOB, they inserted Hunts and players who didn't put a step in SCOB got better gear than raiders, with bad lucks or they had to share upgrade items between party members, with zero effort. Just join a party, push 3 buttons and win. SE repeated the same formula in 2.5, the community learned and they though -"i gonna waste my time doing FCOB? Nah i just wait three months, wait for hunts and echo and try to faceroll the raid".

With Savage, SE tried to get a better raid scene, but the most part of the community were not prepared. Partys were unable to kill faust before enrage, unable to kill Oppresor and 0.5 before enrage and still a3S is the most hard fight, IMHO a3s > a4s with cheese.

I like Wildstar system to complete dungeons:
In time and objectives? Gold. => More Tomes, high % Random item / minion drop or materia
Objectives but out of time? Silver. => More tomes low % Random item / minion drop or materia
Just complete the dungeon? Bronze. => Same reward

PS: 1000 words limit are killing me :/

Rappa the issue is someone such as myself came from a game that offered so much more end game content per patch then SE does. That reason, and that reason only is why I will not step foot into savage. Until I get my actual raids back with 10-15 bosses per raid + trash with the removal of the raid timer, I will continue to sit out on smacking my head against a brick wall and continue to get Ilevel 200 gear as opposed to Ilevel 210.

As for a Solution to help with raiding, I created the Raid Experience Party Finder (REP). Basically it is a Google Doc spreadsheet where players on the server can list their extensive raid experience, Example A1S (2nd Jump). There you can find other players of the same raid experience and it has a mentor's column for players who opt to train newer raiders. It also serves as a talent pool for those looking to create a static to draw from versus scouring various Forums. I hope that this idea takes hold. So far it's gotten a decent number of people signed up. If it gets bigger I might end up making a website for it.

Instead of creating a black list I figure why not create the opposite. This way players can get help and it creates a better network for raiders.

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Originally Posted by Madjames

Rappa the issue is someone such as myself came from a game that offered so much more end game content per patch then SE does. That reason, and that reason only is why I will not step foot into savage. Until I get my actual raids back with 10-15 bosses per raid + trash with the removal of the raid timer, I will continue to sit out on smacking my head against a brick wall and continue to get Ilevel 200 gear as opposed to Ilevel 210.

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Probably FFXIV is not your Hardcore Raid game.

You comment about 10-15 bosses and trash. Those patchs take 6-9 months to be completed in a normal pace or having 2-3 types of difficult. Some of that bosses are like trash, as far you enter the boss encounter, they die and give loot. Zero effort. You have 10 bosses and 3 are hard, the rest of them are tank and spank or "piñatas".

MMO community changed from our starts. We haven't the time to play 4 hours to clear a big hall with trash and spend one hour killing pawns. "Our time is gold".

FFXIV community is big. Hardcore or mid-hardcore not. Our FC will be unable to complete a full 24 man raiding 4 hours 5 days each week.

I agree with the first part of his premise the (paraphrasing) 'You can't get good if you don't have a chance to learn'.

As for the second complaint, the - 'If it's not endgame content it sucks' (paraphrasing his complaint about Lords of Vermillion and casuals asking for fluff content)? He can get stuffed. MMOs can't survive on one type of content alone.

@ animarelic

first off i started/restarted 75 characters in ff11, i did each city rank mission roughly 20 times over. Unless you wanted to do dynamis YOU DID NOT HAVE TO DO THEM. Not everyong in ff11 did endgame infact very few did BECAUSE OF THE INSTENCE LOCK AND 1 TIME SPAWN mobs. dynamis was under a 1mil gil item which lowered to 500K item to a 1 time 500K buy. the instence was for 1 alliance at a time. and had 3 parts then a 4th after you beat the first 3. in the first 5 years of playing I BARELY saw ppl do dynamis. Sky had mobs that only spawn after long time frames to earn drops to kill the bosses to earn drops to kill kirin.

Basically the problem with the NA community in general is that it forged into something that split up the community into something like factions. many different kinds too. Examples: Casuals, Bads/Baddies, Elitists, No-Lifers, etc. With these titles, that's where the discrimination or an almost sort of racism within the community itself.

People cannot clear end-game because people want experienced players to group up with because they want to win(Understandable. Who doesn't?). People don't want to tell people how or teach them because it can take time. People want others to watch videos so they can know the fight and may be irritated or upset if you do not watch the video. Alot of players probably feel irritated that they are almost required to watch them.

I personally hate watching videos and never watched another after I watched a T5 video and learned nothing. It's like studying for a test. And studying doesn't work for me. I just go in. I ask for a run-down inside. I watch the mechanics happen and I grasp it the first time. Now I know everyone isn't like me but, I can only clear stuff like that because they're in DF.

When PFs have requirements for.. A3S that say: "Must be experienced past add phase", They cut out ALOT of people. How can you, as a new guy, get experienced to past the add phase if you can't get into a group that'll let you in because you don't have experience?

And since statics can be very demanding, most people don't have the time or are able to handle them. Lots of statics in PF are made up of random people who you don't know, then you go in and get rekt...disbanded static. (This is based off of static horror stories I've read) Statics don't get their reps by themselves now. Alot of people I know have talked about how they don't have time for statics or they don't want to deal with the... hardcority of a static. That idea doesn't come from no where.

If the general content-doing PF community wasn't so demanding, people would probably get more content done. People already say that EXs shouldn't be put in DF at day 1 because most people probably won't beat it anyway. I find that dumb because there will always be PUGs that somehow beat things. And I bet the majority of the player base doesn't use PF.

It comes down to the core design of the game I feel. The Japanese community seems to have overcome this issue though.

The game has very little incentive to help build a community of players willing to cooperate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toguro

Basically the problem with the NA community in general is that it forged into something that split up the community into something like factions. many different kinds too. Examples:Casuals, Bads/Baddies, Elitists, No-Lifers, etc. With these titles, that's where the discrimination or an almost sort of racism within the community itself.

People cannot clear end-game because people want experienced players to group up with because they want to win(Understandable. Who doesn't?). People don't want to tell people how or teach them because it can take time. People want others to watch videos so they can know the fight and may be irritated or upset if you do not watch the video. Alot of players probably feel irritated that they are almost required to watch them.

I personally hate watching videos and never watched another after I watched a T5 video and learned nothing. It's like studying for a test. And studying doesn't work for me. I just go in. I ask for a run-down inside. I watch the mechanics happen and I grasp it the first time. Now I know everyone isn't like me but, I can only clear stuff like that because they're in DF.

When PFs have requirements for.. A3S that say: "Must be experienced past add phase", They cut out ALOT of people. How can you, as a new guy, get experienced to past the add phase if you can't get into a group that'll let you in because you don't have experience?

And since statics can be very demanding, most people don't have the time or are able to handle them. Lots of statics in PF are made up of random people who you don't know, then you go in and get rekt...disbanded static. (This is based off of static horror stories I've read) Statics don't get their reps by themselves now. Alot of people I know have talked about how they don't have time for statics or they don't want to deal with the... hardcority of a static. That idea doesn't come from no where.

If the general content-doing PF community wasn't so demanding, people would probably get more content done. People already say that EXs shouldn't be put in DF at day 1 because most people probably won't beat it anyway. I find that dumb because there will always be PUGs that somehow beat things. And I bet the majority of the player base doesn't use PF.

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And your whole post highlights one of the big problems by leaving it out.

Among all those PF examples, you never mentioned starting your own learning PF. There can be a learning PF there at any time of the day, because you can start one. This is a big problem, everyone wants the super experienced groups, even if they have no experience themselves.

How can you critisize groups for asking for up to a certian phase? Thats so selfish. They already put in all the time to learn the fight to that phase, and want to progress. Why should they go back to the stuff they were working on last week, to train you, when they don't even have a clear? To answer your question regarding "how your supposed to get past the add phase?" Look no further than above, you start your own group, and progress, just like they did.

Your comment about people expecting others to come prepared, via videos and the like is well... I mean people who play on the Japan servers say pretty much everyone comes prepared and with their homewok done of their own accord. And here you would bash that as well. These are the differences I see, no personal ownership here, the want for people to do your work for you.

And also, the discrimination towards a class, the PLD. I was trying to find a group to clear Bismarck EX in PF, I found one, it's only need 1 more, a tank slot. Then I join (as a PLD).
Then the party leader said, "No PLD, PLD does shit dps" and I got kicked just like that.
in expert DF, "LOL a PLD, prepare for a long run, bla bla"
JP server did their first A4S clear with a PLD if I remember, they don't discriminate like these people here in NA which I usually see.