Block first timers from Party Finder!

Thanks for the support. :)

Bump, 10 char.

Sapphic i agree with you on the adverts i really dislike the selling clutter. Though kinda blame SE they took awaway playuer bazaar and only have the MB.

But here is a thing, in df you can't control who you group with, it was suppose to be a tool for those who don't have the time to build their own parties. Party finder was more ment for like minded individuals, a party leader has full control over who gets invited, and is the fault of the party leader for not communicating with their members on what they expect and removing people who don't. Thats not being elitist, thats being a good leader. Whqat i meant aboutusing pf like DF and DF like PF is players try to control duty finder parties, when it suppose to be all inclusive. And kicking a person was really only supposed to before those who were trolling. cheating, being crude for no reason, or was disconected, @ launch we had no vote dismiss option.

People now use it to control the df group acting like psuedo leaders.

With pf people who form them or join don't communicate well or at all. Then blame eacg other for bad runs, or refuse to use it because of "not wantong to waste time with bad players" Thing is, you have full control over your party oif you are forming it. You're the party leader you set the rules and expections. If someone joins and doesn't communicate or flat out ignores you you have the right to remove them. Just gotta step up and be a leader.

I'm ranting again, but yet again, another person joined for their free clear today and this only motivates me to keep this thread going. Joins the farm party, gets the clear achievement, then says 'sorry but it's late for me, got to go, good night.'

Firstly, stop using a farm party for a clear whether you know the fight or not. If the leader states 'no bonus', that means NO players with a bonus. Respect their rules!

Also, why on earth are you joining a farm party if it's late and you have to log out after one run? Yet again, don't be rude, and save 7 other people's time. For a fight like Thornmarch Extreme it's very hard to get a farm party together since it has to be done synced to get any reward and there isn't a pony drop. Joining purely for your clear and leaving is a huge inconvenience and waste of time for everyone else in the party. Just stop it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

With pf people who form them or join don't communicate well or at all.

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Can't argue with that whatsoever XD Take in 2.x with Garuda extreme. There where a couple or 3 strats to beat her. Get a farm party with everyone running a different strat, it turns into a mess of wipes with everyone saying they should do it "their way". Instead of the Party Leader saying at the start "we are doing it this way". Everyone needes to be on the same page before the pull.

Even farm parties with all experienced players on some content can have a couple of wipes at the start as everyone gets on the same gameplan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

Also, why on earth are you joining a farm party if it's late and you have to log out after one run? Yet again, don't be rude, and save 7 other people's time. For a fight like Thornmarch Extreme it's very hard to get a farm party together since it has to be done synced to get any reward and there isn't a pony drop. Joining purely for your clear and leaving is a huge inconvenience and waste of time for everyone else in the party. Just stop it.

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If they made it clear up front there wouldn't be as much anger. If you had been waiting for a pot to fill for a whiole and someone comes and said they can only do one clear, chances are the party will take them along to get one clear in at least. Whereas being dishonest about it, more often than not leads to resentment towards the person, they get a bad rep and blacklisted. Which reduces the amount of parties they can join the more they do it.

By sneaking dishonestly into farm parties of which they do not fit the requirements the PF leader is asking for they are doing harm to themselves. It's asinine.

@ sapphic, pretty much hit the nail on the head. I hontestly don't even understand why this is even an issue. I don't recall this being an issue in ff11, peope there from when I played communicated and listen to the leader or was kicked out and people used word of mouth to say how that person isn't a good team player. MMO and the MuD they spawn from, and the table top rpg that started it, have always been about playing with like minded players and communication to get things done, people listen to the party leader, their clan/mentor, or the DM or their out.

@ thread
This is purely my own opinion based on my own experierences, but alot changed in MMO (and gaming) since World of warcraft was launched. Gaming went from a fairly niche activity more so MMO, to a sudden raise to mainstream with the lauch and raise to mmo. People who never played an mmo or much less a video game started to play it. It was credited to being very easy to jump in and play so much so people i knew in ff11, said it was so easy even your granmother could play it. After the launch and raise of WoW i started to see a influx of people who play mmo, but also negative treands that followed like the "hardcore vs casual" debating. And people starting to state "i have a real life, i can't play this game all day like some no life player living in moms basement".

To me its comments like that, that started the rise in "anti-mmo/anti-gaming" behaviour. Which is when the WoW mentality of "pugs = bad" started to happen. People started to get more and more anti-social, and getting more selfish, stating they don't want to waste time on other and focus on themselves. To me such mentality goes against the ideals of MMO, and what the genre was about. MMO to me, was pretty, much suppose to be online versions of table top rpg. A place to meet other players, make friends and play the game together. In ff11 atleast, being a part of a server community actually ment something, you could walk up to anyone and say hi and end up becoming friends and playing the game together. You'd set up plans to get content done when everyone was online, and generally understanding that people had offline obligations. Like in ff11 i made a few friends that i endjoyed the game with. I even recall the first person to show me the ropes on how to play, i was 19 at the time and I'm 30 now, I only played with that guy for a week and still recall his player name/ race/ job.

When i played ff11, the first year i could only play 2 hrs aday 4 at most and only in 2 seperate sessions, this was due to i was 19, and we didn't have a router so I had to unlink the net to play on the ps2. I also shared the ps2 with my brother, who started playing too for a bit but quit because it wasn't his thing. Alot of ppl i met in game was pretty respectful over my time limit and we got as much done as we could. I did get a router and my own ps2 and started to play longer, pepople i played with was happy for we and we had more fun. When WoW was launched and mmo became mainstream the community shifted, and people joined who had a "me me" mentality. Which started to make playing not as fun.

At that point i decided to try WoW, mostly to see what all the fuss was about, and get a better understanding on the sudden change in the mmo community. First thing i noticed was you leveled up completely solo from quest instead of killing monsters, with other players. This was a foreign concept to me, even my b/f at the time who played it longer was on the bandwagon of you level up solo, so any time i ask for his company he stated you level up faster by yourself. I didn't like it, but i did my best. I got to the content where you did quests in dungeons, my first dungeon experience in WoW was aweful. At first when I shouted for help i was trolled, it took a while to get help. I got a few people and we went in, the group went as far as maybe 50% of the dungeon, and people droped once they got their loot. I pretty much ended up alone in the middle of a duneon and had to quit.

I stopped playing WoW because that type of community wasn't what i wanted to deal with. I picked it up 2 years after and rolled on an rp server with in 5 min of playing i was surrounded by 5 players and called things like "lady of the evening" (u know that w word), horde spy, horde (that w word) and other nasty insults (and no these people were not rp-ing) I went on to the forums as i had 0 idea how to report it, and was heavily mocked saying i deserved it and to grow a thicker skin, last post i said was "i deserved to be called a (that w word) for no reason?" I was then mass reported and reciteved a 72 hr temp ban from the forums and game and quit the game permanently.

Reason i said all that was to show 1 players experience in both a group based mmo and solo based mmo, and how different each community became with the rules set in place. MMO now a day have gotten more and more solo friendy and it getting to the point where you play "solo" while in a group. Which is leading players to become seperated between hardcore vs casual, real life vs no-life. We no longer act like a community, and its because of that we are having suggestions like these pop up. I fully agree we need more options now a days in party building tools. But, we wouldn't need them if we stop trying to play mmo by ourselves. Remember this is a multiplayer game, you never are by yourself so please don't act like it.

TLDR: If we stop'ed trying to play this game by ourselves and took consideration of everyone around us, we wouldn't need suggestions like this. If you don't like the suggestion, maybe you should take into consideration on how you play. Then ask yourself " Am i part of the problem or the solution"

@Azazua_azura, from what I've seen so far, the only people who don't support the suggestion either have not read the thread at all, have a completely opinion based argument or are just disagreeing for the sake of argument. Before I made this thread I obviously thought the idea through and I still can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be a good idea.

In response to others, if you don't support because you think the thread is about duty finder, you need to read again. It's selfish? So is using a farm party for a clear. There aren't enough clear parties? Make your own. If someone had a valid argument I'd listen to it, but so far it seems people are just trying to oppose the thread.

@Sapphic, of course, if they asked the leader and we knew we were only getting one clear we wouldn't have minded so much. But then again, the one clear that we did get was used for the benefit of the player since they needed the clear anyway. I'd even go as far to say he probably didn't have to leave but got the clear and had no other reason to continue.

The community needs to learn to communicate because as you said, they're damaging themselves and their reputation. Unfortunately I don't see that happening any time soon.

Just had another one of "sneaky newbs".

My buddy asked me to help him for Ravex to get him BLM staff(or tokens, which one comes first). He sets up PF, with "No newbs/bonus" and we get party full. We enter and GUESS WHAT, bonus! We exit right away and my bud says "I'm getting a drink, if whoever is the newb isn't gone by when I get back, I'm disbanding the party". Couple people leave, we get reps and no more bonus. Took like 20-30 mins to get party full, then 5-10mins to rep newbs.

Another was just like 2 days ago, again Ravex farm for weapons. We get this ninja in party who right away states that he's playing his gf char and just getting the clear for her and possibly a weapon. We decide to give it a shot and it went just fine.
Made me think later back though that this ninja wasn't doing his gf any favors. Yes we got her the clear but if/when she tries to do it herself she doesn't know anything. My only hope is that if she is interested in harder content she'd get group of people to train with her and not waste other people time on PF when joing farming groups.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

If someone had a valid argument I'd listen to it...

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That's because there are no valid arguments to be made. I'm of the opinion anyone opposing the idea are the very trolls we are trying to keep out of the PFs. Period. There is no other explanation. This literally hurts no one but those people. The whole "but run buyers can still join" retort is a load of hot mess. Can't make everything perfect, and I would wager some of those "run buyers" are more skilled players then and of you would believe. Some people are just very gil-rich and either strapped for time/extremely lazy. Neither of those things = "must be bad". I know firsthand that not all run-buyers are doing it because they can't beat it themselves. Some people just tire of running content with all the crap players they have encountered.

Or ya know, having a decent group of 7 people disband because one schmuck thinks it's a good idea to invade that farm party when they haven't beat it. Yeah, people get tired of that as well.

OP still has my support. However, if they don't make these checkboxes able to be enforced by some kind of check/balance in the game system then all of this is for naught. And since none of the current checkboxes work in this manner, I seriously doubt SE will take the time to implement this because they would probably have to re-work the PF. As much as I would love to see this added to the PF creation tool, the realist in me doesn't ever see it coming to fruition :(


But seriously..."we can't have an extra option in the PF because the option isn't option enough to make run buyers opt out of this option"


...I feel like an Xzibit meme belongs somewhere

@JayCommon, I just hope SE at least consider it and realise this would be a huge help. The party finder kind of needs to be reworked anyway >.>.

Bump! 10 char.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

-snip-
I stopped playing WoW because that type of community wasn't what i wanted to deal with. I picked it up 2 years after and rolled on an rp server with in 5 min of playing i was surrounded by 5 players and called things like "lady of the evening" (u know that w word), horde spy, horde (that w word) and other nasty insults (and no these people were not rp-ing) I went on to the forums as i had 0 idea how to report it, and was heavily mocked saying i deserved it and to grow a thicker skin, last post i said was "i deserved to be called a (that w word) for no reason?" I was then mass reported and reciteved a 72 hr temp ban from the forums and game and quit the game permanently.

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Wow... I played WoW for a very long time and never had any of these issues. I'm so sorry your introduction to WoW was so bad. If I still played, and you were up to try again, I'd say to join me on my server with my friends. There IS a lot of good players on WoW, they just tend to hide out in guilds and only do anything with their guilds due to so many trolls out there.
As to the game being 'easy'... I've heard that argument so many times that I just need to facepalm. They streamlined the combat to be more easily understood by a new player, and after playing for a while, you begin to see patterns. By the time one reaches max level, you've probably memorized where your skills are on the bars, so the only thing to focus on is the combat itself. :P But... that's a minor peeve of mine when people say one game is easier than another. Nah, they each just have mechanics set in a way that to a grouping of people (not everyone!), they learn and advance faster.

This can be said about ANY game. I personally find FFXIV fairly easy due to the indicators of where attacks land. It's kinda why Coincounter/Minotaur are my favourite fights >.>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

I know firsthand that not all run-buyers are doing it because they can't beat it themselves. Some people just tire of running content with all the crap players they have encountered.

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This! I actually got my Titan HM clear way back when it was freshly out for less than their asking price cause I told them straight up I knew the fight, just was tired of wiping. They challenged me, saying if I managed to do the fight flawlessly, they'd sell the clear for half off. :D Not only did I dodge everything, I even managed to take over tanking when their tank got clipped by the landslide due to Titan taking a weird step towards the ledge before doing it. O.o Still have yet to figure out what caused that. lol


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And OMG, people still are seriously not reading the thread or giving the broken record responses of "Elitist" and "Selfish"?
For flying fu.... This is a more than reasonable request. Hell, I'd love to see a lot done to the Party Finder:

-Tabs to separate Advertisements from actual Groups
-Option to invite while IN the Party Finder, instead of ending the search first to invite someone
-A reset key. (This is mainly for FATE parties when you're posting it back up after people have left, causing spots to be locked to specific classes.)
-When hovering over the leader's name, the ability to see THEIR ilvl and if they've cleared the content (when applicable, disabled on a learning party, of course)
-Option to join as multiple roles*

Just to name some of them. :D

*Say you're joining to help out, but only dps spots are open, you can join, but it'll also say you can play x,y,and z in case someone would have preferred to run on something else, but thought being on what they are would result in a faster party.
The only reason I'd like this one is for the times the leader may have been AFK for a moment in a fairly talkative group. XD Just so you're not repeating yourself in chat a bunch of times :P

@ kalasm, I have met nice ppl in WoW but they they few and to far in each meeting. I no longer own a pc so i couldn't try it, and I'm not a big fan of the lore nor am i good at the controls.
Only reason I'm even remotely good at video games, is due to playing them since i was 3 with Legend of zelda pon the nes (which was pretty compex because of needing to dodge and attack in various ways)
so pretty much been gaming 27 year,

@ thread ya we do need more options, and no no argument against this holds any water imo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

@ kalasm, I have met nice ppl in WoW but they they few and to far in each meeting. I no longer own a pc so i couldn't try it, and I'm not a big fan of the lore nor am i good at the controls.
Only reason I'm even remotely good at video games, is due to playing them since i was 3 with Legend of zelda pon the nes (which was pretty compex because of needing to dodge and attack in various ways)
so pretty much been gaming 27 year,

@ thread ya we do need more options, and no no argument against this holds any water imo.

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I'm the same when it comes to just being around games for the majority of one's life. My parents told me I fell asleep as a baby on weekends to the sounds of them and friends playing PnP Dungeons and Dragons. So when I say I'm a lifelong gamer, I mean it... completely. Video games were a bit later in my life, but still been playing them for at least 22-23 years. :D

Bump. 10 char

I'll support this as soon as more of you folks start assisting people trying to form clear/learning parties. There's nothing more demoralizing than setting up a PF and only 2-3 people show up. You want experienced players? Get them experienced.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I'll support this as soon as more of you folks start assisting people trying to form clear/learning parties. There's nothing more demoralizing than setting up a PF and only 2-3 people show up. You want experienced players? Get them experienced.

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Go a few pages back and check the screenshot I posted of helping 7 completely new people in a fairly difficult trial to explain. Don't make assumptions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I'll support this as soon as more of you folks start assisting people trying to form clear/learning parties. There's nothing more demoralizing than setting up a PF and only 2-3 people show up. You want experienced players? Get them experienced.

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... you folks ...


...
...
Hey look! Someone telling experiecned players that it is their responsability to train everyone else!

...
...
My god...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I'll support this as soon as more of you folks start assisting people trying to form clear/learning parties. There's nothing more demoralizing than setting up a PF and only 2-3 people show up. You want experienced players? Get them experienced.

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You sure it isn't because no one likes you? I'd personally bail on anyone with your personality, but that's just me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I'll support this as soon as more of you folks start assisting people trying to form clear/learning parties. There's nothing more demoralizing than setting up a PF and only 2-3 people show up. You want experienced players? Get them experienced.

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Plenty of us help, just not all the time, we have our own stuff to do too :p but either way we aren't obligated to do so. And in my case, and probably many others, we wont join in as a role we have little to no experience playing in that content. And healer/DPS spots get taken quickly :p

I never join clear parties though unless asked, it's basically a carry in disguise most of the time because once you know a bonus will show up those looking for a carry will try and ninja one too because there's no way of telling, which further ruins farm parties once those kinds of people have clears.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I'll support this as soon as more of you folks start assisting people trying to form clear/learning parties. There's nothing more demoralizing than setting up a PF and only 2-3 people show up. You want experienced players? Get them experienced.

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If there is something I learned while playing this game: If you want to get stuff done, YOU gotta do them yourself. You can't always rely on other experienced people, who probably don't know you, to hold your hand along the way. You also can't expect people to drop whatever they're doing to help you. That can't be helped.

If their intent is to farm something, let them farm. Don't join a farm group if your intent is to get a clear and not help farm. It does nothing but piss everyone else in the party off, then eventually block you from future groups with them.

Yeah, you got your clear at the cost of you flipping the bird at 7 other people because you just want one go at the trial. I'm aware that 7 people is a small number, but people have connections and some know how to use them.

If there are more people who needs a clear, then there should be no problem with PF.

You'd be right if that were my point. After quite a few unsuccessful tries, I finally was able to form a PF group for Ravana EX a couple of weeks back and clear it from my quest log. My point is this might not have been nearly as difficult if people who are so adamant about blocking new players (or, more often than not, players who've learned the fight but can't get over the hump) were equally enthusiastic about joining clear/learning PF groups--and, to be fair, I must credit the OP for following this example.

party finder is not really set up that way.
It's just a tool to help make parties without having to resort to spamming in shout or something similar.
It doesn't really have any link to the content you do.

That said it really sucks just how many people outright lie about their experience and join groups they shouldn't thinking they'll just get carried through it.

Even if they did something though there will always be people that put in way more effort trying to get around the system than it would take to just learn it like everyone else.
Like today my expert roulette had a tank who was wearing full asuran accessories of Aiming to get his item level up and the vast majority of his actual armor and weapon was level 54 white gear, needless to say he was getting annihilated very quickly and yelling at the healer the whole time and ruined the group for everyone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

You'd be right if that were my point. After quite a few unsuccessful tries, I finally was able to form a PF group for Ravana EX a couple of weeks back and clear it from my quest log.

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Good for you? It may not be what your initial point is, but this alone pretty much enforces my own point. You eventually got a group going without disrupting any farm parties. So it took a little longer, big deal. Like I said, leave the farm parties to people who want to farm it. Establishing a Farm Party is just as difficult as a Clear Party.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayward

My point is this might not have been nearly as difficult if people who are so adamant about blocking new players (or, more often than not, players who've learned the fight but can't get over the hump) were equally enthusiastic about joining clear/learning PF groups--and, to be fair, I must credit the OP for following this example.

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Well, I, myself, join in Clear groups if I'm bored enough. There's no real benefit to me as an experienced player, but I can hop in if needed. But, if I want to use up my time to farm ponies, glamour, or mats to sell, I'd like to get the fight over with as fast as possible, with a team of 7 people who have the similar goal. That way, I can help them by getting the item, too, as we continue fighting. Is that really too much to ask? I don't think so.

I shouldn't have to be obligated to play chaperone, by some player lying to my face so they can get in to my party. A new player coming in, clearing, thanking everyone for said clear, then leaving the farm party is actually a massive waste of time, because it leaves everyone else in the party false hope of completing their personal goal. And then everyone blames the Party Leader for not enforcing their own rules.

You think it's demoralizing to get content cleared. But you fail to understand that it's just as demoralizing when farm parties can't get things going because some player think they can game the PF system.

Which is why this is needed. I want content, too. But people need to stop doing underhanded tricks to take advantage of farm parties.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nihility

party finder is not really set up that way.
It's just a tool to help make parties without having to resort to spamming in shout or something similar.
It doesn't really have any link to the content you do.

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That's exactly why Party Finder needs to be looked at and improved. There's no point in having a tool if it can't be used properly and if people can ignore every aspect of it other than pressing 'join.'

Bump, 10 char.

Still keeping this thread alive!

Bumping this thread.

Okay, firstly, why are you bumping this thread without meaningful input? Can we not leave it go the way of all other poorly thought out ideas? Secondly, adhering to what I just said, there is a 'noob lock' in party finder in the form of Minimum iL. A 'noob' isn't likely to have an iL in a certain range so that should keep your farm parties 'pure'. Anything beyond that hampers a player's ability to use party finder for content that isn't on the duty finder, like the current extreme primals. If you haven't had the time or luck to gear up while the extreme primal was most popular then anything more than a minimum iL lock-out would screw you over.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Okay, firstly, why are you bumping this thread without meaningful input? Can we not leave it go the way of all other poorly thought out ideas? Secondly, adhering to what I just said, there is a 'noob lock' in party finder in the form of Minimum iL.

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Firstly, we're bumping the thread for obvious reasons, can you not rudely comment without meaningful input?

Secondly, item level has absolutely nothing to do with skill. I have people in my FC who are item level 190+ and have never entered Thornmarch Extreme in their life, nor know any of the mechanics for them.

You can get a good item level purely by spamming expert roulette for Esos, but it doesn't mean you have any idea how to execute mechanics in other duties.

Also, nothing is 'hampering a player's ability to use party finder' when players shouldn't have any need to join a farm party unless they've cleared in the first place.

Please come back when you decide not to be rude in my thread and when you have something other than a 'poorly thought out idea.'

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

there is a 'noob lock' in party finder in the form of Minimum iL. A 'noob' isn't likely to have an iL in a certain range so that should keep your farm parties 'pure'.

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I am i190 and never cleared Bismarck Ex. I can join a Bismarck Ex Farm Party for my clear? Awesome!

Also just throwing it out there. I have cleared bismarck and my ilvl is under 190. I tank in 150 accessories that are melded.

ilvl is not even close to being indicative of skill level.

Anyone who ever thinks that ilvl is a source of skill needs to only look up information on the shitstorm that was "gearscore" in World of Warcraft. >.O

I'm going to say no... this is how some people get clears.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

I'm going to say no... this is how some people get clears.

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Exactly? You've just completely enforced my point.. People shouldn't be joining farm parties for clears!

We have had this tool to help assist both new and experienced players for years. Taking it away and forcing people to use the /shout method or begging is only going to make clearing content and assisting others more of a hassle. New players will be especially affected, as many will have outdated content they are new at doing, and th3y might not have the connections to get the belp they need.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kallera

We have had this tool to help assist both new and experienced players for years. Taking it away and forcing people to use the /shout method only is only going to make clearing content and assisting others more of a hassle. New players will be especially affected.

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The option would be exactly that, an option. It would be used to help form farm parties, which new players shouldn't even be going near.

I'm not asking them to take away anything. Players can still use party finder, they don't have to resort to /shout. All this is doing is stopping people from joining parties they are not supposed to be joining.

How will new players be affected exactly? Because they can't join a farm party to get their clear? They can still make their own clear party or join another one. The only thing they can't join is something specifically created for experienced players only.

And yet were back to the 'nobody helps new players' argument, which is complete nonsense, plus players can actually form their own parties in party finder instead of replying on other people who want to farm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kallera

We have had this tool to help assist both new and experienced players for years. Taking it away and forcing people to use the /shout method or begging is only going to make clearing content and assisting others more of a hassle. New players will be especially affected.

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What are you talking about? OP only wants option to make a PF party which only players with clear could join. It is proper request for someone interested in farm parties.

No one except liars would be affected.

People still just reading the title...

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