Lock and Load: The Reassembled Machinist Guide

Ok thanks :D

I have a couple questions if people don't mind answering.

1. Without food, potions or any party buffs, what should my opening wildfire number and average dps be on a target dummy if I'm at ilvl 208 with a i200 weapon?

2. When saving my cool downs for wildfires 2nd / 3rd / etc, should I be using them in the same order as my opener with wildfire?

3. Under situations where I mess up certain cool downs or I have to wait to use wildfire for a mechanic, should I save cool downs for wildfire so I can keep the timing or use them as I have them and just use what I have left for wildfire.

Sorry about the questions but I've been playing MCH as my main since expansion and now that I'm finally starting to do raid content with friends, I'm trying to do better with the job and just running into little bumps that are very frustrating. I still want to stick with the job and possibly even perfect it but I'm at the point of needing outside help to do that.

Opps, one last question. Is it worth getting the i210 relic on my MCH since its a buff compared to my current one or should I just wait for them to make Gordian more accessible or I get the Thordan one and just use the relic on another job even though I'll probably be less serious about that job.

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Originally Posted by ElasmoFan

I have a couple questions if people don't mind answering.

1. Without food, potions or any party buffs, what should my opening wildfire number and average dps be on a target dummy if I'm at ilvl 208 with a i200 weapon?

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I've not tried unbuffed myself, but my buffed ranges from 8k - 11k WF. I presume unbuffed would be the 7-8k range.

As for the relic Q - i'd say go for it. Thordan is probably better, and if it's accessible for you then go for it - but relic is an ok replacement. But if you're main is MCH you should keep in mind that future updates will more-than-likely let you choose your stats, so it'll be a head start.

Edit: I can not provide my 3m+ DPS sorry, only my WF/burst figures. My 'dummy' is Faust, and it's the normal rotation (I'm pretty sure I got it from the google doc, may have a few small changes for latency). I don't want to answer the other Qs because I've had an amazingly long break from raiding/mch. Only just getting back into it for 3.2.

what buffs do you use on the target dummy yourself to get that range for wildfire? Also do you having an average 3 min. dps on it?

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Originally Posted by ElasmoFan

Opps, one last question. Is it worth getting the i210 relic on my MCH since its a buff compared to my current one or should I just wait for them to make Gordian more accessible or I get the Thordan one and just use the relic on another job even though I'll probably be less serious about that job.

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statwise speaking, even though relic/eso gun is 210il, thordan gun is still techically better choice, only trumped by gordian gun. Still the difference is rather small, as crit gains from thordan can be rng, while relic/eso is 4+ dex (constant dmg).
the differences are really small.

I'll probably just stick with getting the relic for my MCH then. It's probably better to plan ahead with that as well and have it once it does eventually become better.

So any more advice / answers for my earlier questions? The help I've gotten so far is also very appreciated :)

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Originally Posted by zandervont

statwise speaking, even though relic/eso gun is 210il, thordan gun is still techically better choice, only trumped by gordian gun. Still the difference is rather small, as crit gains from thordan can be rng, while relic/eso is 4+ dex (constant dmg).
the differences are really small.

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when i got my relic i did the test, the output number with relic on my wildfire no potion/food was ~6600, with thordan it's ~7500. it's a rather big difference :p

2~i use them as same order, easier to remember but not sure it's the best
3~ i tend to use my buffs. Wildfire is a big burst, but when you know you won't have time to finish it, it's better to use your short buffs like BfB et our ogcd are not that big so you sync back pretty easily.

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Originally Posted by LinowKitty

when i got my relic i did the test, the output number with relic on my wildfire no potion/food was ~6600, with thordan it's ~7500. it's a rather big difference :p

2~i use them as same order, easier to remember but not sure it's the best
3~ i tend to use my buffs. Wildfire is a big burst, but when you know you won't have time to finish it, it's better to use your short buffs like BfB et our ogcd are not that big so you sync back pretty easily.

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Did you only do it once? I'm having a hard time believing that identical damage guns, with only crit > skill speed on a single item being the difference would equate to a consistent 900 damage differentiation.

It's confirmed that Thordan beat outs the relic, but I don't think it's THAT big of a difference. Wildfires are known for their variance.

I would be very careful about putting too much stock into a handful of parses/anecdotes, it's just not sound statistics (and by 'handful' I mean <1000, or <10000 parses even).

There's no way the tiny crit/dex difference between the Thordan and Anima weapons is causing a 1100 damage difference in Wildfire consistently. There's variance in presence of buffs (maybe your DRG or NIN derped), variance in damage dealt, variance in critical hit rate, player error, latency..

It's very hard to conduct any conclusive tests as a human for that reason. If you want a solid answer we'd need to have it like WoW where the combat mechanics are pretty much known and solved, and you just plug your rotation into a simulator and let it run for a few thousand iterations.

i test it several time of course ._. i was as astonished as you. Can't wait for the dummy trainer in 3.2, will be perfect to test out some stuffs

Greetings,

We understand that machinists feel the timing that certain actions flash when triggered by another doesn't feel as fluid when compared to other jobs. In Patch 3.2, we're planning to address this by adjusting the timing of the icon flash for certain actions.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings,

We understand that machinists feel the timing that certain actions flash when triggered by another doesn't feel as fluid when compared to other jobs. In Patch 3.2, we're planning to address this by adjusting the timing of the icon flash for certain actions.

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The one true buff.

I really hope thats not all that's being adjusted, while I do appreciate it, it's really not the top of my list of what should be adjusted/buffed about MCH.

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Originally Posted by Lilith_Merquise

I really hope thats not all that's being adjusted, while I do appreciate it, it's really not the top of my list of what should be adjusted/buffed about MCH.

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It is for me! By far my biggest issue with the job right now is that I don't know whether Slug Shot or Clean Shot have proc'd or not, and either have to stop and wait to see if the icon starts flashing, or continue spamming Split Shot, either of which is a huge DPS loss.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

It is for me! By far my biggest issue with the job right now is that I don't know whether Slug Shot or Clean Shot have proc'd or not, and either have to stop and wait to see if the icon starts flashing, or continue spamming Split Shot, either of which is a huge DPS loss.

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True, but it still won't make up from the DPS lost by BRD's reset ability with Blood Letter vs nothing, stronger Emp. Arrow vs Gauss, or stronger DoT's that only pull ahead when under Hypercharge, but Sidewinder does far more for 60s vs 120s. Essentially the only thing that pulls ahead is the burst of Wildfire, but given that they can do more for longer and faster, just having more concise procs on Slug/Clean really won't do anything except maybe a 50dps bump. And as a main MCH, I'll be beyond disappointed if this is the only "Change for more consistent damage."

Yeah, it's a nice and much needed quality of life change, but for most of us this is a 0% increase in DPS.

When comparing classes you have to assume they are both being played perfectly after all, so I'm looking forward to see what other meaty things are in store for us in 3.2.

I swear to dog if they fix the mch procs but not the blm ones I'm gonna kick some lalas!!!

Although it's not going to help with mch Dps, It's very much a qol fix that id welcome. It still keeps the requirement of being situationally aware but it's a bit more leeway on it.

It'll still be nice to give mch a bit more of an identity though, make ammo more influential to more abilities or turret interaction for more dps

A self heal would be nice. Waiting on 3.2 to see if this is added.

The whole icon flashing problem was pretty dumb too. The buff was already there but somehow the dev felt the need to delay their appearances for whatever reasons.

This is also the case for every oGCD buff skills too.

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Originally Posted by mosaicex

The whole icon flashing problem was pretty dumb too. The buff was already there but somehow the dev felt the need to delay their appearances for whatever reasons.

This is also the case for every oGCD buff skills too.

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I don't think it is done intentionally, I think the buffs appearance is based on server refreshes. For example use split shot normally, and then use split shot with an ogcd and watch how quickly the proc will come up due to a forced refresh.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

I don't think it is done intentionally, I think the buffs appearance is based on server refreshes. For example use split shot normally, and then use split shot with an ogcd and watch how quickly the proc will come up due to a forced refresh.

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Naw, this sort of thing has always been consistent. In the case of bard, you'd see the buff for ss scroll down, but the skill doesn't flash, and the proc doesn't get used despite the proc scrolling down your combat text beforehand. You also couldn't force a refresh for it; I had a video demonstrating just that and it wasn't fixed until our recent patch.

Can you pretty pretty please center Gauss Barrel on Armageddon? It looks so weird/sloppy when its aligned to the top barrel.

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Originally Posted by DemandAPanda

Can you pretty pretty please center Gauss Barrel on Armageddon? It looks so weird/sloppy when its aligned to the top barrel.

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At the risk of sounding sketchy uhh id /guess/ the Gauss Barrel is its own model file that is called on with the Gauss Barrel action. The only ones that are different (that i've seen) are Kunimito and Mog (Kunimito being somewhat opened/dyeable and Mog being cold).

Id imagine these were relics from the yesteryear and everything from now on just calls the main Gauss Barrel file.

This would explain why the positioning isn't changed for weapons like Ferdinand and the position of it is the same on Armageddon as with the rest of the guns.

But based on Kunimito, the ability for specific Gauss Barrels per weapon is there~ its just easier to not use it.
The most I'd hope for is a toggle which I have no idea how difficult that'd be.

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Originally Posted by DemandAPanda

Can you pretty pretty please center Gauss Barrel on Armageddon? It looks so weird/sloppy when its aligned to the top barrel.

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Well to be fair, it is the topmost barrel you shoot from, not from all 3. and a funfact: after you autoatk, the barrel starts rotating (semi-minigun effect).
While it might look odd at first, its only logical that the top barrel gets the Gauss-effect, otherwise you'd shoot the damn thing off or blow it up.

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Originally Posted by zandervont

Well to be fair, it is the topmost barrel you shoot from, not from all 3. and a funfact: after you autoatk, the barrel starts rotating (semi-minigun effect).
While it might look odd at first, its only logical that the top barrel gets the Gauss-effect, otherwise you'd shoot the damn thing off or blow it up.

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And the logic card sorta goes out the window when you have the same principle applied to double barreled guns and gun blades... Which all shoot in the same manner as well

Not to mention it actually rotates for the shots itself, only the reloading

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Originally Posted by zandervont

Well to be fair, it is the topmost barrel you shoot from, not from all 3. and a funfact: after you autoatk, the barrel starts rotating (semi-minigun effect).
While it might look odd at first, its only logical that the top barrel gets the Gauss-effect, otherwise you'd shoot the damn thing off or blow it up.

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This argument is retarded. Go look at the ferdinand with GB on and come back.

Do you guys like, stare at your character during a fight or something? Not sure why so many people care how the Gauss Barrel looks. I only have it on when Im about to fight, turn it off if you don't like how it looks while standing around/RPing/taking pictures.

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Originally Posted by Ossom

Do you guys like, stare at your character during a fight or something? Not sure why so many people care how the Gauss Barrel looks. I only have it on when Im about to fight, turn it off if you don't like how it looks while standing around/RPing/taking pictures.

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So you telling me if your character transformed into a potato mid combat and stayed that way the entire fight you would be okay with it?

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Originally Posted by Ephier

So you telling me if your character transformed into a potato mid combat and stayed that way the entire fight you would be okay with it?

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I agree with your argument but should a Lala really being say that to another Lala? >w>

Muh phone typos, I meant that it doesn't rotate for the shots themselves, only the reloading action afterwards. You can see it with things like spread shot.


And yes well, glamour is the true end game. It already doesn't help that brd and mch have some piss poor animations , but it double dips for mch when their weapons are never truly individualized if they don't change the lunchbox, and the barrel is literally gonna be taped into every gun regardless of if it makes sense or not ( on top of the guns themselves being of all variety but firing in the same manner)

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

stuffstuff

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I noticed this on the latest liveletter, lets hope its real:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/oQ...uVeAzQ8dHl9f6c
I see no lunchbox (and Gauss seems gone too but that can just be that its turned off, but I can hope).

My guess is they just turned it off specially for that preview pic, they get to break a lot of rules for such things after all.

I'm sure their very competent artists can see for themselves that the toolbox wouldn't mesh well with that look. There's a reason I only wear the Saurian Tabard dyed metallic silver, there's nothing else in the game that matches the gold and silver on the toolbox (you can only dye the silver parts).

I'm a fan of our Midas gearset though, it looks like a nice brown and gold palette and I'm looking forward to collecting it.

Armor for MCH/BRD in raids that looks awesome. We have only gotten that never. Well, the Final Coil one was okay.

I'm having a little issue figuring out when to save/use reload,wildfire, and b4b,HE, RS before and after jump phases of all bosses. Mainly thordan at the moment. I've been using mch for awhile now, but thats what bugs me the most compared to the other dps jobs since we rely so much on wildfire. I always beat myself up not knowing when to expend or to save up (even in normal content).

I'm guessing I should just understand the timings a bit more and figure out if I have enough time to get my cooldowns back up before I NEED burst? And in fights that have hardly have an enrage timer (or a very soft one), I just resume normal rotation of popping up buffs when they come back up? Its driving me insane lol.

Everything is trial and error. You just have to get a feel for it. The irritating thing about MCH is that the more DPS your group gets the more annoying wildfire is to use because things die/push faster. For example in a3s when your group hits a certain point, the hand that grabs the healer will die before your wf can go off.

3.2 Random thoughts, with Gauss Round going from 180 to 200 potency, I wonder if I should revisit the slightly rearranged double-Gauss Round opener I was mucking around with in the early days of Heavensward. Some of you might remember it. Just eyeballing it, 20 potency doesn't look like it'll change a whole lot, but still.. interesting.

Will be interesting to also see if Hypercharge's extra 5 seconds of duration will nudge it somewhere else in the opener - probably not by much, just a GCD or two if at all.

The reason being, as you know, the current 15 second duration interacts oddly with the firing interval of the turret which currently results in the last 2 seconds of Hypercharge not actually doing anything (you get one last augmented turret shot on the ~12th second, and then the Hypercharge buff falls off just before the next turret shot). Which explains why you can do Bfb, HE, Hypercharge, RS, (boss pull) and still get the maximum number of augmented shots (5, or 6? I forget) despite 'wasting' some of Hypercharge's duration before the pull - you're just shifting that wasted 2 second period forward to before the pull.

With a 20 second duration, it might be able to/have to go somewhere else in the opener to ensure we're getting the maximum amount of augmented turret shots from it.

[2.0][3.0] The effects for a number of weapons have been adjusted.

Armageddon fix please?

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Will be interesting to also see if Hypercharge's extra 5 seconds of duration will nudge it somewhere else in the opener - probably not by much, just a GCD or two if at all.

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You wouldn't want to delay the use of hypercharge too long because every second it's not up, it's also a potency loss for the MCH in the form of turret. The circumstances behind using Gauss round for damage hasn't changed at all, so it shouldn't change where it fits in an opener.