RIP Bard

no more dodging. dps > mechanics. healers pls heal.

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Originally Posted by JustaBard

no more dodging. dps > mechanics. healers pls heal.

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Or you could do something radical like not trying to do one thing 100% of the time and use the stance when applicable.

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Originally Posted by Spiritreaver1217

Or you could do something radical like not trying to do one thing 100% of the time and use the stance when applicable.

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Blasphemy. Stand there and take that 40% dmg and let the fairy heal ya up + second wind the rest. Ofc you'll get a physick and a cure at the same time as well b/c that's how it always goes.

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Originally Posted by Kuroyasha

Blasphemy. Stand there and take that 40% dmg and let the fairy heal ya up + second wind the rest. Ofc you'll get a physick and a cure at the same time as well b/c that's how it always goes.

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Or maybe no. You die and the lootmaster tells you that you can't need anymore on that new flashy pink dragonpony!

I thought bard's were getting another song/action. Keeper's Paeon that doesn't interfere with MP/TP songs and affects party members and their pets (Egis/Turrets)

Resource battery will always be bis.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

..And back to disappointment. A 25% increase is very weak considering we're taking longer to fire and losing auto attacks.

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It was only a matter of time before bards started whinging.......

After this post let the thread die out it's going nowhere as for the the new song "the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence"

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Originally Posted by EZ5902

It was only a matter of time before bards started whinging.......

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You're a bard yourself. Join in the chorus, you'll feel a lot better to get those frustrations out in the open instead of pretending everything is wonderful. There's only so much saccharine sweetness you can sup before you start feeling ill.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

You're a bard yourself. Join in the chorus, you'll feel a lot better to get those frustrations out in the open instead of pretending everything is wonderful. There's only so much saccharine sweetness you can sup before you start feeling ill.

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And there are only so many conclusions you can jump to before you miss and smack your face into a wall. >_>

So what "The Wanderer's Minuet" does is give a 20% buff to ablilites eg "Straght Shot" and other but add a buff timer and you cant move, right?

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

You're a bard yourself. Join in the chorus, you'll feel a lot better to get those frustrations out in the open instead of pretending everything is wonderful. There's only so much saccharine sweetness you can sup before you start feeling ill.

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And when you start seeing those brds that actually realize this is a MASSIVE buff doing 700-800 dps, and you're only doing 500 you'll realize how stupid you sound.

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Originally Posted by ShizumiNeko

So what "The Wanderer's Minuet" does is give a 20% buff to ablilites eg "Straght Shot" and other but add a buff timer and you cant move, right?

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You can move, but not too far. You have 1.5 sec casting time on main abilities (out of 2.5 sec GCD) - its much better than what mages have, but limits unlimited movement bards had before.
Besides 20% straight buff that somewhat offset with loss of autoattack, Minuet also unlocks very powerful abilities that are not usable otherwise - semi-ofcd attack with 240 potency, dots prolongation and the most powerful bard's attack .

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Originally Posted by Felessan

You can move, but not too far. You have 1.5 sec casting time on main abilities (out of 2.5 sec GCD) - its much better than what mages have, but limits unlimited movement bards had before.
Besides 20% straight buff that somewhat offset with loss of autoattack, Minuet also unlocks very powerful abilities that are not usable otherwise - semi-ofcd attack with 240 potency, dots prolongation and the most powerful bard's attack .

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Oh cool ^-^ and can you also use "Hawk's Eye" and "Raging Strikes" along with "The Wanderer's Minuet" to give a even bigger buff in total?

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Originally Posted by ShizumiNeko

Oh cool ^-^ and can you also use "Hawk's Eye" and "Raging Strikes" along with "The Wanderer's Minuet" to give a even bigger buff in total?

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Yeah. Minuet is a song you play to give you a static buff, much like Swiftsong remains until you cancel it. So you can use buffs like Raging Strikes to further your output still.

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Originally Posted by Nikoshae

Yeah. Minuet is a song you play to give you a static buff, much like Swiftsong remains until you cancel it. So you can use buffs like Raging Strikes to further your output still.

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Is the song best not to use all the time, meaning will it out put lower dps in time due to how long you use it combate compared to the faster combate with the song off / or does it not matter if you used it all the time ?

And if in short bust is it best to use on boses and hard adds?

Right now now I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around Bard's new opener. Granted I'm only 52, it's just the thought of weaving in abilities at a lesser speed than our 2.0 counterparts is a bit jarring. Still, having Straighter Shot not require a cast time is awesome and very strategically sound, ala a Black Mage using their fire proc.

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Originally Posted by ShizumiNeko

Is the song best not to use all the time, meaning will it out put lower dps in time due to how long you use it combate compared to the faster combate with the song off / or does it not matter if you used it all the time ?

And if in short bust is it best to use on boses and hard adds?

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This is the true for machinist; as soon as you get the skill at 52, it's not exactly feasible to use it even in ideal circumstances. The 20% attack boost does not necessarily make up for the loss of auto attacks. You need the other abilities which are locked behind minuet/barrel to more-than make up for the loss of autos. That is how it currently feels on my machinist.

I support a motion for closing this thread, since the OPs concerns were addressed within the first two pages. Posts here are alternating between rephrasing the same information or personally attacking the OP for a simple misunderstanding.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings,

Actually the effect from Wanderer's Minuet does not disappear when you move, this is our mistake, and we apologize for the confusion. It is as Seifa mentioned, that if you move while using your actions, then that action will be interrupted.

We have updated our post with the correct information in the digest thread here.

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That's good news.

But I wonder if people are forgetting though it is not just an addition of cast timers or loss of auto-attack plus loss of the benefits on actions when move since it is not like the rest of the group won't want other bard dps 'debuff' songs played offsetting the dps boost so I wonder how those debuffs will impact the buff in actual hard content playing given party will still want you playing mages ballad or paeons sometimes which both reduce the WM to just a 5% buff down from 20% etc.

What I am going to be paying close attention to is keeping eye out for videos measuring the impact of playing it vs not playing in multiple hard content trials, raids and dungeons stat wise. Any target dummy testing and theory-crafting of damage output is completely worthless in measuring the viability and impact on dps of this skill. I have a feeling it will be very far from a 'substantial' or 'high' dps boost in most latter game content and at best due to the complexity SE is going to place in that contents fight mechanics and the reality of party composition/difficulty of fights requiring use of other dps debuff songs at same time...that the dps boost while playing will be microscopic.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Wanderer's Minuet is what was used, this allows charging times on the skills for more damage iirc.
It's a self-buff song. You cannot move, you stay still and charge.
That's a more RIP bard lol.

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Done any numbers yet? Does the charge time make it worth losing the dps you could be doing while you're charging up?

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Originally Posted by Omegakiyohime

Sigh... Brd's are getting a song called Wanderer's Minuette that buffs it skills while adding a cast time to them. So you get more damage, but with a trade off.

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SE can keep the tradeoff. Bard was fine w/o caster being forced on ppl who chose bard precisely because it wasn't a caster.

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Originally Posted by UltimateAoe2

Well no, this will sort out the good bards with the bad.
Bad bards will obviously go in a different job
Good Bards will know what to combine with this song (I.E, if it actually gives an buff, Raging Strikes/Hawk's Eye).

Also, was it actually said we cannot auto attack? Cause I believe that's not true.

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What is with ppl saying bards are bad if they move to another job or play bard to begin with? We chose bard simply because we either played other mobile dps in other games and are attracted to that in ffxiv, or we don't like caster jobs, or melee jobs and nobody I have heard really knows the "rotation" yet with this new pita song.

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Originally Posted by Airget

Yea, if you paid attention to the whole live letter what they did was add a reason for range DPS to stand still and not run like chickens with their heads cut off.

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Some of us do like to run around in an organised way that others don't understand the allure til they try and then understand.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

At least they catered to people who wanted a more DPS BRD than a support one.
You just need to be smart on how and where you use the song...Just like every other song.
100% situational but I fear there's going to be a lot of dead ones now. >.<

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Some were already playing it more as a pure dps before now.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

At least they catered to people who wanted a more DPS BRD than a support one.
You just need to be smart on how and where you use the song...Just like every other song.
100% situational but I fear there's going to be a lot of dead ones now. >.<

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aaah, but none other our other songs affects us in movement. Big difference.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

I guess that is everyones concern now.
Lets hope they did enough testing.

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They never do you should realise this by now, we're the real testers.

Originally, when I heard bard was gonna turn into a caster I thought that they would have us cast a vareity of songs, like "here's a haste song for these guys, and a debuff song for the mobs, and a buff song for the Healer, etc"
Seeing as that is not the case, I am curious, does this song even really aid Bard when you crunch the numbers. This game requires a lot of movement and Bard lacks many high-powered spike dmg abilities (ie. things like Firestarter'd Fire3, Fester, etc) to make up for the DPS loss incurred by having to move while casting. While dodging with Minuet OFF how much dmg can Bard pump out in comparison to with Minuet ON. Is it worth it to even have the song on in the long run if you have to break your cast and therefore your DMG to move?
I tried to play with the Minuet, and I couldnt stand it.

Its lost that "bard" appeal to me now so I have left Bard. I played bard because I loved its mobility, and while I don't have a problem with Casters, this is not how I want to play. I'll likely try it again later when the stigma of this change has worn off. But for now, I'm not touching bard.

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

I'm actually pretty sure that the act of moving pops off the song. This means that you have to recast it every time you want to dodge out of the way of something.

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It doesn't, the stance stays til u remove it yourself. So if you have to move and try to pop something too soon you could appear to be having a seizure with your character's skill animations.

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Originally Posted by Seifa

Wow, i didn't understand that Minuet disappears if you move, i understood that you lose the cast time of the spell, obviously. This is just a clunky mechanic for the sake of being clunky. The prospect of playing a physical BLM isn't appealing at all.......

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You lose the cast time, the stance stays on if you have to move.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Why the hell is this considered "RIP BARD" to people? This is what people have been asking for - a LOT. They wanted to be more Archer/Ranger with "Cast times on ranged attacks" to be more DPS based. Well, here's an awesome song that will allow you to amplify your damage at the expense of not moving.

Personally? I find this -awesome- and think that it will really define a good bard over the ADHD bards that jump in circles spamming a single skill. -_-

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I didn't ask for this sort of thing. Buffing yes, adding new skills yes, being a "caster" no. And myself and other endgame bards don't spam a single skill tyvm. We hit everything in an organised way.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Yeah, kind of have to go with the 'this is awesome' people. I mean, casters have had to stand still to do their roles since role playing games have been a thing and noone's complained about that. Bard will get an ability that will theoretically put them on par with casters damage-wise and suddenly it's all doom and gloom? I think this is going to be pretty cool. I like being a support role but this will definitely make my solo life alot easier and will probably get some use in party content.

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GL having the mobs patiently wait to hit you soloing while you're casting with WM on.

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Originally Posted by Yoruichi4478

You lose the cast time, the stance stays on if you have to move.

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Yeah. They meant you had to stay put like BLM for your ranged attacks to go off . Otherwise for the most, I see bards staying put anyway and only move to get near a healer for balad or to get out of the glowing shapes on the floor. If anything the only RIP Bard that is legitimate is the fact they are no longer a backup LB3 Raise. I'm going to miss those times where Bards resurrected the whole party since they were the only dps able to.

By the way, where are these so called threads with people bitching to make bard a caster class in the first place?

I have never seen one. I would have argued to my death against it if I had....:rolleyes:

PVE in open world is a lot safer if I turn off this Minuet song, because I can hit and run.
Still lvl 55 and I'm hoping that once I hit lvl 60 everything will change with new skill and new rotation setup.

But I honestly hate it the fact that we lost our mobility and got the cast time, it feel like I'm playing a new class.

It's funny to see this thread still going when it was literally made when they first announced Wanderer's Minuet. There's a great deal we know now that we didn't then, and to tell the truth it's not as bad as it seemed. You can't weave 2 off-global cooldown abilities anymore, but you can still weave one per cast and Barrage was indeed changed so that your next skill is tripled instead of it affecting auto-attack. Empyreal Arrow and Sidewinder hit insanely hard for a Bard, so at least they did give us abilities that could put out the extremely high damage values. All in all, I actually believe that the Bard's freedom of movement actually made them way too easy to play (I just recently gave an example of killing an enemy 10 levels higher than me just because I could kite it). If anything, the class has become more complex, but at the very least the job as a whole is much more satisfying to master.

Like it or not, Wanderer's Minuet is needed to keep up respectable damage, and just because we can't make figure 8's while we dps doesn't mean that the class is any less fun or interesting.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

I wonder.

If BRD stays at the same efficiency compared to other DPS without using this new song as it is now, and the new song helps us boost that DPS, then it's good.
If they make it so that BRD *has* to use this new song frequently to be as effective as they are today, it's a huge nerf and will make tons of BRDs switch classes.

I doubt any BRD picked up the class to stand around and deal with cast bars - that's what BLM is there for.

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I totally agree there.

It's still no less bad than before, they shouldn't change our play style on a whim, this is our job, if you want to try something new do it with a new job, in FFXIV we don't have the luxury of choice when it comes to how our job plays, so making changes like these is a dick move.

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Originally Posted by Lyaha

It's still no less bad than before, they shouldn't change our play style on a whim, this is our job, if you want to try something new do it with a new job, in FFXIV we don't have the luxury of choice when it comes to how our job plays, so making changes like these is a dick move.

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I think this, is the thing Im most upset about. It would not have bothered me if they chose to implement these things on MCH, but taking the job we already knew and love and changing the way it works ENTIRELY has angered a good chunk of the populace.

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Originally Posted by Vespar

I think this, is the thing Im most upset about. It would not have bothered me if they chose to implement these things on MCH, but taking the job we already knew and love and changing the way it works ENTIRELY has angered a good chunk of the populace.

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They were in the perfect position to make a class that played like this, but they just gave Bard and Machinist the same skills, talk about lazy.