The single biggest issue holding back FFXIV needs to be specifically addressed.

Nah, it definately works in a different way. The jumping is 'cause the server only fetches linear movement from one point to another. And those points (the new player location) is only fetched once in a while (together with all other action info) and takes horribly long to get validated and sent to the other players. Increasing the fetching rate would decrease the visual abnormalities and lost commands. Reducing the time until stuff is being sent to other players would reduce the lag.

Even more worrying, if they don't fix this it will only get worse. The servers must be running at really low capacity now (I mean, lets be honest, most servers are pretty dead...) so *if* they re-release/PS3 launch etc and they actually get some decent subs numbers, we'll be back to the laggy mess it was around launch /sigh

I really wonder about the architecture - even on other things like the explanation surrounding storage space. Surely it takes a single bit to record whether a player has a given item... so there are these things called relational databases... I don't see how a character cant have all their data stored for well under a meg, and its not like there are many characters to store lol

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Originally Posted by RopeyDonkey

Even more worrying, if they don't fix this it will only get worse. The servers must be running at really low capacity now (I mean, lets be honest, most servers are pretty dead...) so *if* they re-release/PS3 launch etc and they actually get some decent subs numbers, we'll be back to the laggy mess it was around launch /sigh

I really wonder about the architecture - even on other things like the explanation surrounding storage space. Surely it takes a single bit to record whether a player has a given item... so there are these things called relational databases... I don't see how a character cant have all their data stored for well under a meg, and its not like there are many characters to store lol

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Yeah thats pretty scary

Would be nice to get a dev reply on this.. x.x

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Originally Posted by RopeyDonkey

I really wonder about the architecture - even on other things like the explanation surrounding storage space. Surely it takes a single bit to record whether a player has a given item... so there are these things called relational databases... I don't see how a character cant have all their data stored for well under a meg, and its not like there are many characters to store lol

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Usually in an MMO every item has it's own ID(sometimes a history too) even if it's stackable or some random garbage. This is to prevent/prosecute duping.

Adding my thoughts on this since it has dropped from the first page.

Fighting Dodo's is a surefire way of seeing this phenomena in a quick and easy way. When Dodo breathes in, move around, still get hit even when you've been behind it for 2-3 seconds. Maybe the servers are being kept next to a mini black hole that is distorting time around them, resulting in the server lag.

Creepy...

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Originally Posted by Buckles

Adding my thoughts on this since it has dropped from the first page.

Fighting Dodo's is a surefire way of seeing this phenomena in a quick and easy way. When Dodo breathes in, move around, still get hit even when you've been behind it for 2-3 seconds. Maybe the servers are being kept next to a mini black hole that is distorting time around them, resulting in the server lag.



Creepy...

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Yeah those teleporting flies too.

Bump!^^^^^

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Originally Posted by SnowTiger

Would be nice to get a dev reply on this.. x.x

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MMhmm.... >__>

Feel free to jump in any time guys!

Btw I love your sig and it makes me miss Yagudos every time. They had their own culture and architecture even.
I hope XIV has races with unique story and design like that someday.

So its a little after 3 PM on monday in Japan and still no response. Nice.

I'm not a programmer but this issue seems to be a fail in the games "hard-coded" programming. Can hard-code be changed tho or would the game need to be rebuilt from "ground-on-up" to fix this issue. Hopefully not...

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Yeah those teleporting flies too.

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OMG I KNOWWWW! i just pretty much gave up on trying to dodge almost anything while soloing, its just gonna hit me anyway.

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Originally Posted by Youngblood

I'm not a programmer but this issue seems to be a fail in the games "hard-coded" programming. Can hard-code be changed tho or would the game need to be rebuilt from "ground-on-up" to fix this issue. Hopefully not...

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Netcode is always hardcoded... but that doesn't make it any more difficult for the devs to change it. They have the source code after all <.<

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Originally Posted by Youngblood

I'm not a programmer but this issue seems to be a fail in the games "hard-coded" programming. Can hard-code be changed tho or would the game need to be rebuilt from "ground-on-up" to fix this issue. Hopefully not...

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All that means is that the code for that section is in the source files, not in an interpreted script or data file.

Sorry but what's being asked for here is pretty unreasonable. When dealing with network code, you can't expect an update on the exact state of a player every frame, latency will always be an issue, it doesn't matter how well the server and client are coded there's always going to be time taken to transfer data from one place to another. You can't possibly update everyone all the time, so, what you do is you update then as often as possible then interpolate between their current and previous state to give them smoother movement rather than jumping constantly.

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Originally Posted by Kafeen

Sorry but what's being asked for here is pretty unreasonable. When dealing with network code, you can't expect an update on the exact state of a player every frame, latency will always be an issue, it doesn't matter how well the server and client are coded there's always going to be time taken to transfer data from one place to another. You can't possibly update everyone all the time, so, what you do is you update then as often as possible then interpolate between their current and previous state to give them smoother movement rather than jumping constantly.

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You sure you even read the posts here? <.<
Nobody asked for an update rate = fps. We simply ask for an update rate higher than every 5 seconds or just an async method like in other games.

SE please... something? anything? Even a response of "we're aware of the situation" at this point would be nice.

I think this thread should get the new [dev1133] Battle Regimen discussion tag. I mean, if this issue isn't fixed how are they are going to implement a real time Battle Regimen system (that makes sense to the players)...

I'm rather shocked this topic hasn't received Dev attention. I'm aware this issue has been discussed before, but never in such great detail. I'd like to see further SE input on this, along with a plan detailing the course of action. These issue is severe and the game could suffer great losses if the problem is ignored.

Please give us something more than "we are aware of this issue and will look into it". Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Archadius

I'm rather shocked this topic hasn't received Dev attention. I'm aware this issue has been discussed before, but never in such great detail. I'd like to see further SE input on this, along with a plan detailing the course of action. These issue is severe and the game could suffer great losses if the problem is ignored.

Please give us something more than "we are aware of this issue and will look into it". Thanks.

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I think it's entirely possible they have no way to fix it and simply don't wish to say so. Wouldn't be good for those PS3 box sales.

311 likes, about 200 more to get an answer, right? Took what, 500 likes to get a response on the level 1-50 in one zone topic, no?

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Originally Posted by Keftenk

311 likes, about 200 more to get an answer, right? Took what, 500 likes to get a response on the level 1-50 in one zone topic, no?

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Thought it was 600, forgot :p

All regions pushed for it too for that 1-50 one, saw the thread posted on the JP side with translation JP side got translation after german and french translations I think then NA side got official JP translated one as response.

For this one they already have a thread going so I posted the video in there but still no response + not much likes as this thread.

Give or take lol /shrug

http://goo.gl/mSlQd

there, translated the OP's post on the JP thread (not direct translation, used my own wording on some parts) to explain what the NA side is talking about regarding this one and also mentioned the 300+ liked this thread has on here.

Yeah this definitely needs some fixing. I have worked a little bit with game engines, networking, etc. I've worked with a few engines, and seen how their networking code works. And, there is, without a doubt, such a better way for the clients to update.

The networking code in this game .. really needs to just be re-done. They cut way too many corners, and relied WAY too much on the server to update the clients. This is evident everywhere: The UI, battle skills and battle itself, character/monster movement. The entire networking system is a mess.


Let's take .. something simple as an example .. such as the selling window. And since I don't actually have access to the engine and source code, I am assuming some things here. And this is a very simplified version of the steps a client/server transaction should take place in the case of selling items.

You open the sell window:
1) Your client, then asks the server what items you have in your inventory.
(hopefully this was actually figured out way before you talked to an NPC. If not, the server sends a string of all the items you have in your inventory, their selling price, and whatever other relevant information is required to display those items in the UI (which should be completely client side.)).
2) You sell an item. Since the game is TCP, your client will assume the server will get the information (eventually - since TCP will continue to resend if there's packet loss).
3) Your client updates your UI LOCALLY and doesn't rely on the server to respond. Having the server say "yes, it was sold, and here's the new inventory list is extremely redundant and slow (as it is now).
4) At this point, you're ready to sell another item. The server should send a "it was done" message back to the client for verification, but this reply should not be waited for before letting the user continue.

Bumping for great justice!

The XI example video posted gave a good view of the movement lag, but in XI, movement updates have the lowest priority. Spells and job abilities have very low latency -- when I was testing a dualbox setup a few years ago I found that a spell cast on one box would only be delayed 200 to 300 milliseconds before showing on the other box; that's not a lot more than my round-trip delay from eastcoast US to Japan!

Also, I had observed my brother playing using the PS2 and its 56k modem back in 2006 (connected at 44k or so), and it looked quite playable.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

http://goo.gl/mSlQd

there, translated the OP's post on the JP thread (not direct translation, used my own wording on some parts) to explain what the NA side is talking about regarding this one and also mentioned the 300+ liked this thread has on here.

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Appreciated.

Thanks for the translation Reinhart.

Bumpity bump bump bump. Whats a taru gotta do to get a rep post?

Very much agreed with OP. SE has stated optimizations already in place, having played since beta to launch to present I do notice a significant change and increase in performance. The game used to be almost entirely unplayable pre optimization. Lag was off the charts and the graphical glitches were far worse than anything discussed here.

Still a lot of work needs to be done to further this aspect of the game to completion!

P.s. OP needs to properly tag the thread if he wants a DEV to read and reply! No tags currently exists for this thread!

bump bump bump

I apologize for the delay in getting a response on this, but the team has been busy working on patch 1.19. We showed the video to Yoshida so that he could respond to what is being demonstrated in it. Please find his response below:

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

The issue where character movement routes are different on individual clients [such as that demonstrated in the YouTube link from the original poster] is not actually due to server lag, but due to a conflict between animation control and a process that supplements movement routes by using character coordinates and vector/speed.

Even with the current status, the server is working and judging coordinates and routes properly at the point of synchronization. (Coordinates are being processed with an intended frequency so that the difference in coordinates themselves is almost none.)

Therefore, corrections to the animation and the process to compensate movement routes will improve the cases like in the video. Improvements to the server-related issues will be another story. Although the previously mentioned correction will not be made in patch 1.19, it will be done after the patch.

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As you can see, there are many systems in play when it comes to the server/client relationship, so the overall term 'server-related adjustments' actually encompasses quite a few different things. This is just another step we are taking to improve the overall situation as development continues to address issues moving forward.

Thanks for the reply, Bay! Glad to know the team is at least aware of the problem and is working to solve it. :cool:

As an aside, I do want to address the feeling on the forum that things need to be constantly bumped, or that we aren't going to address something unless someone translates it and posts it onto the Japanese forum. We read each of the threads and consider all of the comments that are being discussed. While responses cannot be made immediately in certain situations, and need time to be able to addressed, I don't want the mood of the community to be that we're ignoring it, or that only concerns on the Japanese forum are addressed.

We want you all to focus on the discussion and let us worry about making sure your thoughts, feelings and concerns are properly communicated.

So server response and general performance of the "waiting 3-6 seconds on every operation" will be addressed, just not in 1.19. Well, I plan to return into the game around 1.20 so if it's done then or near enough to then pretty much everything that keeps me from firing up the game today will be sorted. With any luck, that'll fall in November when I get a new rig so I will be one happy Hyur!

To the OP: Great work on putting this issue forward. It is always the very best idea to challenge things like these to remove forum and internal speculation, so that we can maintain an open, knowledgeable flow of information between everyone involved and suffering these nagging issues. Thumbs up to all involved. Hurrah!

So when are these server-related issues being adressed? Will it happen this year? Next year?

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Originally Posted by Mug

So when are these server-related issues being adressed? Will it happen this year? Next year?

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

This is just another step we are taking to improve the overall situation as development continues to address issues moving forward.

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I'd imagine this is something they are/will be constantly working on, and don't have a concrete date for.

I don't think anyone can complain at this point, it will be done when it is done. As far as letting us know what is going on Yoshi-P's description is pretty much as close as you can get to explaining the issue without copy-pasting ingame code. I for one am satisfied.

Ok, I'll rephrase my question:

When can we expect to start seeing the results of this "ongoing" work on server-side issues?

well after 1.19 so it we are lucky 1.19a ^_^

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Originally Posted by Mug

Ok, I'll rephrase my question:

When can we expect to start seeing the results of this "ongoing" work on server-side issues?

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No need to rephrase your question. Just see the last part of my answer, lol. There are some things they can't give an exact answer to.