o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

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Originally Posted by Kiote

That is exactly what I have tried to point out repeatedly. They aren't trying to fix crafting or make it fun. They are just trying to make it so easy no one has to try.

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Yeah I noticed, thought id give it a shot, as its an area I didn't cover in the OP.
An i don't think were going to make any ground on the should/shouldn't 12 the data base be cut now.

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Originally Posted by Nero

LOL.. put up for sale? and who will buy it, if everyone can make them now?

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People that don't have the craft ranked up. New people to the game. People that still don't want to bother making the item.

Sure it's not 100% that it will sell, but then again it's not 100% it'll sell the way things are now. Only difference is that with the new system i won't feel shitty that I've wasted so much time making the items if it comes to the point where i do have to just NPC my crafted goods.

Yippee~

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Originally Posted by DNO

everyone could have made them before...

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Did you read this Thread? Most people didnt want to invest time or effort. So no.. not everyone could have made them before, due personal opinions and thoughts.

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Originally Posted by DNO

also this is the stupidest reason i hae every heard.
You actually think everyone playing ff14 is gonna level all 6-8 crafts to reank 50? really???? name one game that 50-70% of the fanbase ranking every single class to capp and i will give you 3 million gill!!!!

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Why would you rank up 6-8 Crafts after those changes? You wont need Subclasses anymore. One Game where the fanbase ranked up every single class to Cap? What is that question about? Has nothing to do with screwing over a realistic system.

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Originally Posted by DNO

With this bing said everyone will be buying things always cause people are not gonna spend millions of gill and 4-5 months leveling each craft i no im not lol.

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See.. you dont understand the current System. Want to know how many Gil i spent on Crafting? 0 ZERO.

Its simple.. i Craft and sell Stuff. At the moment the Craftingsystem is loads of Profit. There are Items you can buy easy at wards and make into Items which vendor for way more, than you have spent. <_<

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Originally Posted by Nero

Which is cool. So Crafter have an actual reason to craft. If people dont have a reason to buy stuff, since they can make everythig easy on their own, whats the point of the wards or AH? Whats the point of Economy? Whats the point of ranking up a Subclass? Whats the point of Gatheringclasses.. etc etc etc? With this Step SE will force a lot of problems, without even seeing it.

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I saw this happening in the game Fallen Earth. It was made far too easy for every player to master every aspect of every craft. At that point there was no turning back. The economy tanked, because there was no zero reason to trade. That eliminated one significant form of player interaction. When this was clear, I left the game. It's now in F2P, after being bought out (i.e. failed financially).

We already have this problem, but fortunately the rank cap is only at 50, and it could be addressed in myriad ways at level cap raise.

However, the dev team appears to making the crafting system less detailed. This does not bode well, as the key problem (the ranking process is NOT fun) is still there. So the next step will be to make ranking faster for crafting. This leads to everyone reaching max rank in all crafts. Since SE is NOT adding depth to the crafting system, I can only assume that there will be no significant barrier for a person to reach max in all crafts.

Once this happens, there is no going back. All the players get whatever crafted items they want without any challenge. There is no trade and economy. The only items that will be of interest to players will by raid drops. Thus raids will become the sole focus of the game, and crafting and gathering classes will fade into oblivion.

With the raid-centric focus of the game, players will push for "streamlined" access to raids. The game is now people standing around in cities forming group to go raid, then teleport direct to raid, finish raid, return to city? Does this scenario seem at all plausible (or it's possible happened before)?

Also to all the people claiming that everyone will now be able to make everything, what's stopping someone from doing that now? Hell if you just rank all of the crafting classes you can make everything, why bother buying anything these days? Oh wait, it couldn't possibly be because people don't want to invest the time or money to raise their craft to make everything could it? I mean that would just be crazy if people could do that...oh wait they can.

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Originally Posted by Alcide

If you want to do everything you're definitely hardcore and I bet you're spending enough time online to do everything, it's not impossible, I've got a lot of friends with all the classes (DoW/M/H/L) 30+ and multiple 50s, it's not something impossible to achieve.
If you don't have all that time you just have to make choices, while other people are grinding 3 combat classes you grind 1 combat, 1 DoH, 1 DoL (as I'm doing and you can tell it from my sig).
But you just can't pretend to do EVERYTHING in an easy way.

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I never said in the 23 pages posted as I write this reply I wanted ANYTHING easy. And I also posted I'm not harcore as I have 2 kids I raise on my own so game play time is essential. I don't want it easy mode or press 1 button make everything. I disagree with the guilds being removed from the process as that has always been there but the need for items above the rank of the actual piece being made was out of line. I also do what you do as it makes sense for me as well.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Want to know how many Gil i spent on Crafting? 0 ZERO.

Its simple.. i Craft and sell Stuff. At the moment the Craftingsystem is loads of Profit. There are Items you can buy easy at wards and make into Items which vendor for way more, than you have spent. <_<

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lol I've spent like no Money on crafting myself and I have just about every craft to 30 now.

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Originally Posted by LuciBlack

I’m appalled and mortified about the removal of parts.
Our crafting system was very realistic in needing all the different specific parts for a certain piece of gear. I’ve said it myself too that its a pain to gather them all up to make one piece of gear. But its fun for the meticulous. With this change the class is being dulled down way too much. Lessening the difficulty lessens the achievement. I fear as though this will severely hurt the entertaining feeling of being a crafter. Thinking about all those materials that will become obsolete. I feel as if crafting will become less of a favorable choice among players. I liked the fact that this game had 3 separate aspects of game play; Crafting, Gathering and Fighting. They all should be equally as entertaining so everyone can enjoy themselves no matter what they choose to do. Crafting may still have everything i fear that will be lost. But, it seems like how the OP said, it will just turn into another thing to do instead of a lifestyle. I enjoy the idea of "Crafting is for the crafters", its not for everyone. Taking away the complexity of a system only hurts the dedicated loyal activists.

Im against the removal of parts.

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who dosent craft to some degree anyway... I don't think I know a single person in FFXIV with less then 1 or 2 r50 crafting classes.. people that are crafter only are only hurting themselves, as it stands now I just ask a friend to make something I can't and do the same for them if they need and I can't stand crafting as awhole.. and even i have a rank 50 craft with multiple others ranked to a fairly decent degree.. so why not take some of the BS out of it.. ? here is the simple truth.. I went to make a sword for my gla the other day, after spending hours farming some +3 mats and buying the other parts I needed from wards with ruffly 6 hours of farming and numerous hours of making HQ parts, to make a weapon, that i then went to the wards and realized I could buy it NQ for 80k from 20 people and as little as 300k for a HQ I could have saved money, time and effort just buying the weapon to begin with.. if thats your idea of rewarding crafting experience.. then carry on, as you were and all that..

yoshi needs to start taking suggestions from his dev staff and start putting out maybe monthly polls on his wanted changes. some of the changes that are being put in game are absolutely ludicrous and would have been much more receptive if he asked in polls to see what people wanted. he is hiding behing a poll released at the beginning of the year in which very few people that still play the game were even part of.

yes, we wanted drastic changes to the game. when he wants to drastically change one aspect he should ask in simple questions.

1. would you want us to change the crafting porcess?

2. if you voted yes it would give an option to answer a followup question.
a. reduce the shard costs to crafting.
b. remove guild, training, parts, subcrafts.
c. correct issues with gear(a level 14 synth needing a lvl 35 part)
d. increase the amount of sp gained per synth.

this is the only way he will ever know if the people actually playing the game will actually like the changes instead of thinking they are ignorant. just because we asked for drastic changes to the game DOES NOT mean the majority wanted every single aspect of the game changed.

I hope that the example is slightly exaggerated.

If they are getting rid of parts, they should increase the amount of mats that are used.

For that Doublet Vest, it should take something like 5 or 6 cloths + 2 thread + 2 leather, or something along those lines. Limiting the mats to such a low number will just cause an over saturation of gear, and crafters won't be able to sell anything.

If they are going this route, then they need to make crafting more challenging to pull off, as well. If there is no risk, and if everything takes 4 items to craft then everyone will just make their own gear from parts they found killing mobs. This kills the gathering classes, too.

imo, while this makes things convenient, it completely breaks the potential that this current system has. It can be simplified to a less ridiculous degree.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

lol I've spent like no Money on crafting myself and I have just about every craft to 30 now.

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Exactly my Point. The current System is more than good the way it is.

I totally agree with some recipe adjustments i.e. Culinarian. But there is seriously no point to rollback the whole system.

I am concerned they have gone too far in simplifying crafting, and are now making the crafting classes an afterthought, with the focus solely going to be on the dow and dom classes. Worse is this change suggests that the gathering classes are going to be even less useful , something I enjoyed doing.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Also to all the people claiming that everyone will now be able to make everything, what's stopping someone from doing that now? Hell if you just rank all of the crafting classes you can make everything, why bother buying anything these days? Oh wait, it couldn't possibly be because people don't want to invest the time or money to raise their craft to make everything could it? I mean that would just be crazy if people could do that...oh wait they can.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post299275

I posted just above you Arcell. Nothing is preventing people from ranking all classes -- and that has to change. However, this change seems to point in the direction that crafting will not be given enough complexity back to prevent.

Oh yea, I should prolly point out that I too don't qualify as "Hardcore" considering I work 60 hours a week. I'm a completionist. I want to get everything done eventually. But I don't want to sacrifice Depth and Challenge to get there. I'm one of the few players who has not stopped playing since release and I don't want to stop now. But without some kind of Formal proposal to the future of the crafting System these changes are very disheartening.

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Originally Posted by Cursive

how does streamlining it and making it efficient make it easy? do you have any idea how to hq items? being able to make a piece of gear and grinding to 50 is easy regardless of how stupidly complicated a recipe is. making that same item well (hq) is quite different.

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Stop kiddin urself, u spend time to get +3 items then hope that it goes +3, even with correct stats/gear its still luck, id much prefer to see +3 items substantially harder to get and HQ a little easier to get, would shift the focus of the game more to getting the items, which is the part i personally have more fun doing, another reason this change is bad, i wont have to spend as long battling/gathering to get said parts between all this mashing enter, which i will quite miss

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Originally Posted by Calina

who dosent craft to some degree anyway... I don't think I know a single person in FFXIV with less then 1 or 2 r50 crafting classes.. people that are crafter only are only hurting themselves, as it stands now I just ask a friend to make something I can't and do the same for them if they need and I can't stand crafting as awhole.. and even i have a rank 50 craft with multiple others ranked to a fairly decent degree.. so why not take some of the BS out of it.. ? here is the simple truth.. I went to make a sword for my gla the other day, after spending hours farming some +3 mats and buying the other parts I needed from wards with ruffly 6 hours of farming and numerous hours of making HQ parts, to make a weapon, that i then went to the wards and realized I could buy it NQ for 80k from 20 people and as little as 300k for a HQ I could have saved money, time and effort just buying the weapon to begin with.. if thats your idea of rewarding crafting experience.. then carry on, as you were and all that..

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so what you saying is cos the selling system sucks and you couldn't buy the mats form the wards, and it took you 6 hours to farm them (i've done the same i feel your pain) that the synth system should be punished.

Honestly though I find this whole thread kind of funny. Just like dark matter, auto-attack, aggro icons, etc... people will bitch and moan about this until it's implemented (maybe a week or two after) and then you'll never hear about it again.

People here are resistant to change but once it has changed they tend to not care anymore.

There's a lot of over-exaggeration and slippery slope going on in this thread, it's pretty ridiculous. I understand some here may not like the changes but chances are you'll get used to it once it's here. They're only changing things drastically once and that's it. Threads on these forums have never stopped an announced change to my knowledge. Sure you'll get little tweaks and fixes but once it's implemented in its final form that's it. At that point you can suck it up and keep playing or quit.

I choose to accept the changes because I personally have little problem with them. I will concede to the point that in some cases it may be going a bit too far with the parts reduction but we will learn to live with that too.

[QUOTE=Snuf;299093 So, personally, I see this as a great change to make the crafting system much more friendly.[/QUOTE]

/sad ...

thats a big problem for many of us.....

but I left my hopes long time ago.....

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Originally Posted by derenkirby

Stop kiddin urself, u spend time to get +3 items then hope that it goes +3, even with correct stats/gear its still luck, id much prefer to see +3 items substantially harder to get and HQ a little easier to get, would shift the focus of the game more to getting the items, which is the part i personally have more fun doing, another reason this change is bad, i wont have to spend as long battling/gathering to get said parts between all this mashing enter, which i will quite miss

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it is still partially luck, but if you increase the quality beyond what the +3 mats give you will still increase your chances. i know one crafter in particular who is very good at doing this. it has a lot to do with what abilities he has and his judgement on when to use them.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Also to all the people claiming that everyone will now be able to make everything, what's stopping someone from doing that now? Hell if you just rank all of the crafting classes you can make everything, why bother buying anything these days? Oh wait, it couldn't possibly be because people don't want to invest the time or money to raise their craft to make everything could it? I mean that would just be crazy if people could do that...oh wait they can.

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Some crafters I also think forget that not everyone wants to craft so you still have to, well you don't really but you can, make stuff for all levels. If you're a multi 30+ crafter in multiple disciplines then look at the wards, see what's in high demand or not available and make a couple. NOT 600 pieces but 3-4 and sell them at a reasonable price. If it doesn't sell in a few days drop the price. I always do this and ALSO see what the NPC purchase priece is. That way if all else fails I KNOW I can get something for it. Yes it would suck if that's what I had to do but damn people, there are sooo many ways to craft and make gil it shouldn't matter if you need 17 mats to make one sleeve for the rightside of a piece of gear and then the left. You are STILL going to make the piece just with less BS to do so. If you were smart enough to make it that way...pretty sure your intelligece level won't drop if the simplify the process so you're not DUMB and neither is the process.

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Originally Posted by Geesus

I never said in the 23 pages posted as I write this reply I wanted ANYTHING easy. And I also posted I'm not harcore as I have 2 kids I raise on my own so game play time is essential. I don't want it easy mode or press 1 button make everything. I disagree with the guilds being removed from the process as that has always been there but the need for items above the rank of the actual piece being made was out of line. I also do what you do as it makes sense for me as well.

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I'm sorry if it sounded like that, but I didn't mean that YOU in particular want an easy way, I just meant that these changes are leading to an easy way for everyone.
I agree with you that a recipe revision was needed, some of them were too complicated and also the fact that you need a r40 piece to synth a r20 recipe of the same DoH is insane (tho it does make sense from an immersion point of view, but sometimes you just have to ignore the immersion for common sense >.>) but from the exemple they gave us I think they went a bit too far...

I apologize if it sounded like an attak to you, but I just wanted to point out that even with the current system it IS possible to do everything, you just have to chose and the fact that you can't be at the same level of those that are focusing on only one discipline is totally resonable.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

But it is not removed. I imagine it will still give you a success bonus as it usually does but it's not REQUIRED to actually finish the item. They blatantly stated they're already considering alternatives.

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They said the same thing about surplus xp and look what happened to that :)

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

I hope that the example is slightly exaggerated.

If they are getting rid of parts, they should increase the amount of mats that are used.

For that Doublet Vest, it should take something like 5 or 6 cloths + 2 thread + 2 leather, or something along those lines. Limiting the mats to such a low number will just cause an over saturation of gear, and crafters won't be able to sell anything.

If they are going this route, then they need to make crafting more challenging to pull off, as well. If there is no risk, and if everything takes 4 items to craft then everyone will just make their own gear from parts they found killing mobs. This kills the gathering classes, too.

imo, while this makes things convenient, it completely breaks the potential that this current system has. It can be simplified to a less ridiculous degree.

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I agree with this except for the,

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Originally Posted by Tsuga

and if everything takes 4 items to craft then everyone will just make their own gear from parts they found killing mobs. This kills the gathering classes, too.

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The reason this isn't fully true is you can't GET all the mats needed from killing mobs. You still have to gather or atleast purchase the other non-mob drops off a bazaar or from the wards. So instead of there being a waste as you say, you can now just throw the "extra" mats up on the wards and make money that way as well.

just my two cents:

Dyeing- think this is enough itself since it cuts down parts alot

Sub crafts- cant say one way or the other- I like the idea that without time there might be that one thing you cant make. That said they said this will come in later so ok.

Facilities and treatise- dont miss needing facilities for certain crafts. Treatise are pretty easy to get with the way guild marks work now so its whatever on this.

Parts- I like the idea of parts but the problem with there usually being one part in a body that was 10 levels higher of a synth and sometimes a different discipline bothered me. Having a 10 level higher mat of some sort didnt bother me but I didnt like finding parts- especially if it was for a specific piece. I would rather just find these sort of parts or maybe reduce parts some, like just body+sleeve+ornaments.

Yet again if materia changes this significantly enough this may not bother me since that will add more back. Its a big if though.

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Originally Posted by Fireborn

To anyone still proclaiming that gatherers won't suffer.

Here are some numbers:
New: (Nearly no subsynths)
1 bolt of undyed hempen cloth
1 spindle of hempen yarn
1 circle of sheep leather
1 copper ingot (5 nuggets)

Old: (With mats subsynths broken down)
4 undyed hempen cloth (12 hempen yarn)
3 hempen yarn
1 & 2/12 sheep leather
2 Taupe sheep leather
0.1041666~ copper nugget

As you can see, pretty much everything but copper consumption was cut down to almost a quarter. Not to mention that with far fewer intermediary steps, crystals and shards will also see a massive decrease in use unless these new recipes require a large amount more than the old ones.

I'm still going to wait and see how this ends up, but I've got to throw my lot in with the group claiming this is treating the wrong symptom. The wards need a heaftier overhaul, we need a dedicated item ordering system, (which could also serve as a gil sink for the economy!) a Mail System and Auction House. We don't need another system gutted and left to die in the streets.

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You do have a point, but all that crap that never sold in Retainer wards like the parts they are removing will be gone, I understand that means the parts that are required to make those will be gone as well. But sword grips and weapon heads and stuff like that which were taking up space and people never bought them or rarely sold them because people didn't buy them will be removed. Also even if it is less mats gain the value of the items will probably go up because their will be a way higher demand than there is currently. You may sell less overall but everyone will need the new simplified mats not just one or two crafts and in turn drives the need for the items up and drives the prices up in turn. RMT now will be even more a problem with driving prices down and hopefully RMT team will take them out.

I hated all the parts, it did add a sense of realism to it but it was overkill and doesn't and should take that much work to build one piece of armor unless it is a special rare armor. Then I don't mind stuff like that, makes the item much harder to obtain and increases its value even more.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Honestly though I find this whole thread kind of funny. Just like dark matter, auto-attack, aggro icons, etc... people will bitch and moan about this until it's implemented (maybe a week or two after) and then you'll never hear about it again.

People here are resistant to change but once it has changed they tend to not care anymore.

There's a lot of over-exaggeration and slippery slope going on in this thread, it's pretty ridiculous. I understand some here may not like the changes but chances are you'll get used to it once it's here. They're only changing things drastically once and that's it. Threads on these forums have never stopped an announced change to my knowledge. Sure you'll get little tweaks and fixes but once it's implemented in its final form that's it. At that point you can suck it up and keep playing or quit.

I choose to accept the changes because I personally have little problem with them. I will concede to the point that in some cases it may be going a bit too far with the parts reduction but we will learn to live with that too.

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You never hear about it again because for the people for whom it mattered enough, they quit. Some others adapted to the changes.

HOWEVER!

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The following revisions are planned for patch 1.19. All changes listed are still in development, and therefore subject to change.

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The developers clearly gave us insight into planned change 1.5 months ahead of time, they are still in development, and are asking us to give feedback. I have feedback to give. And please, Arcell, if I have "bitched and moaned" about it, please point me to where I did. I try very hard to keep my personal feelings out of it (my personal choices matter naught, here), but instead point out the possible consequences.

Perhaps my prognogistications are wrong, perhaps they are right and this is the direction SE wished to take FFXIV. So be it. But I still have my voice to use it.

And also keep in mind that there is a point where "living to learn with it" becomes "learning to live without it." Up to know I have been quite happy, and willing to adjust to the changes. I even play CON as my primary class, and the changes to MP took some getting used to, but I'm find with them. I'm far, far less sanguine about this news.

I love crafting in this game... but from an unbiased opinion, they need to remove these parts. It really has less to do with crafters and more to do with consumers. Most crafters will not make low gear just to sell because it takes too much and lowbies cant afford the 100k asking price. Simplify recipes, more will sell in markets, prices will drop.

Another statement I read is about creating the materials to sell. In theory that was a great idea... but nobody does it. I have never seen someone making plates and squares just to sell. I have never seen a weapon head or a fishing reel in the markets, so whats the point of all that excess aside from crafters to get off with?

I love the current crafting system and all its complicated parts.. but i believe in general that removing that excess will make my crafting life in FFXIV more enjoyable and profitable.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Honestly though I find this whole thread kind of funny. Just like dark matter, auto-attack, aggro icons, etc... people will bitch and moan about this until it's implemented (maybe a week or two after) and then you'll never hear about it again.

People here are resistant to change but once it has changed they tend to not care anymore.

There's a lot of over-exaggeration and slippery slope going on in this thread, it's pretty ridiculous. I understand some here may not like the changes but chances are you'll get used to it once it's here. They're only changing things drastically once and that's it. Threads on these forums have never stopped an announced change to my knowledge. Sure you'll get little tweaks and fixes but once it's implemented in its final form that's it. At that point you can suck it up and keep playing or quit.

I choose to accept the changes because I personally have little problem with them. I will concede to the point that in some cases it may be going a bit too far with the parts reduction but we will learn to live with that too.

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I know its hardto stop a change, but i know it can be done. (prob not here but EvE it has been from time to time.)

I more wanted to point out that while its 1/2 good its also 1/2 bad,
Wont help the economy, takes away a chance to improve the gear in game.
And doesn't fix the issues that crafting is too repetitive and boring and we need a recipe book and so on..

(but you have to admit these threads are fun, even id the devs won't care)

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Originally Posted by Alcide

I'm sorry if it sounded like that, but I didn't mean that YOU in particular want an easy way, I just meant that these changes are leading to an easy way for everyone.
I agree with you that a recipe revision was needed, some of them were too complicated and also the fact that you need a r40 piece to synth a r20 recipe of the same DoH is insane (tho it does make sense from an immersion point of view, but sometimes you just have to ignore the immersion for common sense >.>) but from the exemple they gave us I think they went a bit too far...

I apologize if it sounded like an attak to you, but I just wanted to point out that even with the current system it IS possible to do everything, you just have to chose and the fact that you can't be at the same level of those that are focusing on only one discipline is totally resonable.

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or remove immersion and common sense as they r doing, u try and made a weapon blade and glue em together with the same skills and tools, tell me which is harder, please.

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Originally Posted by Alcide

I'm sorry if it sounded like that, but I didn't mean that YOU in particular want an easy way, I just meant that these changes are leading to an easy way for everyone.
I agree with you that a recipe revision was needed, some of them were too complicated and also the fact that you need a r40 piece to synth a r20 recipe of the same DoH is insane (tho it does make sense from an immersion point of view, but sometimes you just have to ignore the immersion for common sense >.>) but from the exemple they gave us I think they went a bit too far...

I apologize if it sounded like an attak to you, but I just wanted to point out that even with the current system it IS possible to do everything, you just have to chose and the fact that you can't be at the same level of those that are focusing on only one discipline is totally resonable.

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Oh no need to apologize. I knew you weren't attacking me but I just came back in game a week ago so my profile is a bit misleading. So I threw the extra info there just so you knew. ;)

I know I can't be the same level as others with more time or who concentrate on just DoH/L/crafting but a game is suppose to include EVERYONE and right now, as with most changes in game or RL, people buck the sytem. it's cool as eveyone one is entitled to their own feelings and opinions and to each, they have validity. I just don't think the changes in the receipe need to cause an all out revolution from the crafters or hardcore players either. I hope that SE DOESN'T take the challenge of any portion of the game away from us...ALLL players of each Rank and Class but, you do have to make adjustments when the players in mass ask for or demand change.

I think that what many have prompted for is some sort of poll or question and answer approach as a VERY viable solution to this and ALL future changes in game. If SE is willing to listen I'm sure these requests for additional research on behalf of the Devs IS what is needed.

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Originally Posted by Amineri

You never hear about it again because for the people for whom it mattered enough, they quit. Some others adapted to the changes.

HOWEVER!


The developers clearly gave us insight into planned change 1.5 months ahead of time, they are still in development, and are asking us to give feedback. I have feedback to give. And please, Arcell, if I have "bitched and moaned" about it, please point me to where I did. I try very hard to keep my personal feelings out of it (my personal choices matter naught, here), but instead point out the possible consequences.

Perhaps my prognogistications are wrong, perhaps they are right and this is the direction SE wished to take FFXIV. So be it. But I still have my voice to use it.

And also keep in mind that there is a point where "living to learn with it" becomes "learning to live without it." Up to know I have been quite happy, and willing to adjust to the changes. I even play CON as my primary class, and the changes to MP took some getting used to, but I'm find with them. I'm far, far less sanguine about this news.

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True they are subject to change but from what I've seen once a system is announced that's pretty much how it's going to be implemented. Again you may see little tweaks and small changes but they hardly ever, if ever, change the larger parts of it.

I'm not saying you personally but people tend to complain because they fear change but once the change is implemented they live with it, whether they like the change or not. A lot of the people who have not had the change go in their favor are still around and even come back to the game depending on the patches. Even around here you still see the same people from months ago who rallied against any and all changes, and a good amount of them are still playing whether they link their real characters or not. Hell even I've disagreed to a great degree with a few of the changes but it's not made me want to quit.

It took me a little to realize the big picture. Since launch this game has had tons of issues and with the coming updates they are trying to fix alot of stuff. and somethings seem like a turn in the wrong direction. I think we should try the system before we go bashing it. I know the current system is realistic. However when SE first created this game they wanted a game that you could be a full time player or a every now and then player and still be able to move forward in this game. The limited leve system allowed this. and crafting was always appealing but required more work then someone who cannot devote hours of game time to the game could put forth. I think this new system is designed to make it easier for players to know recipes, to craft successfully and so the dye system they want to implement has its place. Since SE said they were going to let old recipes stay for a time. Think of this as a trial period. Right now SE is trying to complete this game for the console. With the aspiration of making the game successful they want to make it more friendly for first time playesr when the game finally goes to the PS3. lets face it, it took time to get used to the crafting system. Final Fantasy 14 is an ever evolving MMO that will under go major changes throghout its lifetime. The game is getting a full rework. Somethings are welcomed with open arms by the current players. and some are not. but SE will focus on the future more then the present right now this game is free. They are taking a big hit. Try to understand that some changes are being made to make the MMO successful, there are plenty of MMO's who have reworked there crafting system for Simpler methods. Everquest II, WoW, Aion. The hard truth is that while hard core MMO players will love complicated systems, a majority of the population struggles to keep up. I hope you can take an objective view of this system and see SE is trying to make the game more successful at the cost of some well thought out systems. I am sure the devs dont like reworking the systems they worked hard to make.

I posted this in a similar thread, consider some of it.

I 100% agree with you Noata. They are thinking about the future and how to make the game more appealing and accessible to new players. FFXIV's crafting system did take some time to get used to and we all eventually accepted it. Now they are scaling things back and we are afraid of more changes. Honestly most of this entire thread is only focusing on the one or two "negatives" while disregarding all the potential good of the system. Also yes I do feel we should take some time to understand the new system before condemning it. We can speculate all we want about this and that but until we're using it we have no idea how things will truly turn out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Noata

It took me a little to realize the big picture. Since launch this game has had tons of issues and with the coming updates they are trying to fix alot of stuff. and somethings seem like a turn in the wrong direction. I think we should try the system before we go bashing it. I know the current system is realistic. However when SE first created this game they wanted a game that you could be a full time player or a every now and then player and still be able to move forward in this game. The limited leve system allowed this. and crafting was always appealing but required more work then someone who cannot devote hours of game time to the game could put forth. I think this new system is designed to make it easier for players to know recipes, to craft successfully and so the dye system they want to implement has its place. Since SE said they were going to let old recipes stay for a time. Think of this as a trial period. Right now SE is trying to complete this game for the console. With the aspiration of making the game successful they want to make it more friendly for first time playesr when the game finally goes to the PS3. lets face it, it took time to get used to the crafting system. Final Fantasy 14 is an ever evolving MMO that will under go major changes throghout its lifetime. The game is getting a full rework. Somethings are welcomed with open arms by the current players. and some are not. but SE will focus on the future more then the present right now this game is free. They are taking a big hit. Try to understand that some changes are being made to make the MMO successful, there are plenty of MMO's who have reworked there crafting system for Simpler methods. Everquest II, WoW, Aion. The hard truth is that while hard core MMO players will love complicated systems, a majority of the population struggles to keep up. I hope you can take an objective view of this system and see SE is trying to make the game more successful at the cost of some well thought out systems. I am sure the devs dont like reworking the systems they worked hard to make.

I posted this in a similar thread, consider some of it.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph

All I can say is "Hellz yeah!"

Now let's get rid of the timer, make the orbs more distinguishable, and let us use any crafting ability whenever we want to.

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Originally Posted by RabidSquirrel

All I can say is "Hellz yeah!"

Now let's get rid of the timer, make the orbs more distinguishable, and let us use any crafting ability whenever we want to.

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Give us all Classes at 50 right when we created a Character, make all mobs Rank1, make us invincible and make all drops 100%.

<_< Hello from Mr. Sarcastic.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Give us all Classes at 50 right when we created a Character, make all mobs Rank1, make us invincible and make all drops 100%.

<_< Hello from Mr. Sarcastic.

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don't forget the free teleport to any gird postins on any map, having to spend time walking anywhere (including when we geg chocs) is too hard and time consuming.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nero

Give us all Classes at 50 right when we created a Character, make all mobs Rank1, make us invincible and make all drops 100%.

<_< Hello from Mr. Sarcastic.

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You know, you could at least be over-exaggeratedly sarcastic while relating to crafting. It might have a little more relevance that way. But only a little.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Honestly though I find this whole thread kind of funny. Just like dark matter, auto-attack, aggro icons, etc... people will bitch and moan about this until it's implemented (maybe a week or two after) and then you'll never hear about it again.

People here are resistant to change but once it has changed they tend to not care anymore.

There's a lot of over-exaggeration and slippery slope going on in this thread, it's pretty ridiculous. I understand some here may not like the changes but chances are you'll get used to it once it's here. They're only changing things drastically once and that's it. Threads on these forums have never stopped an announced change to my knowledge. Sure you'll get little tweaks and fixes but once it's implemented in its final form that's it. At that point you can suck it up and keep playing or quit.

I choose to accept the changes because I personally have little problem with them. I will concede to the point that in some cases it may be going a bit too far with the parts reduction but we will learn to live with that too.

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I also find the thread funny, altho in a more cydonical way.

The amount of none-crafters,
people who claim to be a crafter (yet list stupid things such as selling prices of 100k for low rank items that have a mat cost of 10k at most..)
and the people who only leveled a craft just so they wouldnt have to rely on others (in a mmo)
that post in this thread seem much similar to the general issue:

Theres only a handful that keeps coming back and voice their complaints quite loud.
As opposed to those that actually do enjoy crafting who post once or two for the most part..

Now what i really am most amused by is the above quotes comment on the whines of people who whine all the time about quiting and what not.

Now personally i have played a dozen orso mmos for a decent length of time and never have i considered any chance gamebreaking enough that i might leave the game, or even voice my opinion in a thread such as these.

Yet i do so now, i wonder why?

But i guess to you im just a whiner~


Isnt a whiner someone who ignores real problems and just complains about that one thing they deem to see?

.....hey wait
how come that only one or two of those who agree with the changes,
have responded even once in this 28 page thread to the problem of selling via the wards?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nero

Did you read this Thread? Most people didnt want to invest time or effort. So no.. not everyone could have made them before, due personal opinions and thoughts.



Why would you rank up 6-8 Crafts after those changes? You wont need Subclasses anymore. One Game where the fanbase ranked up every single class to Cap? What is that question about? Has nothing to do with screwing over a realistic system.



See.. you dont understand the current System. Want to know how many Gil i spent on Crafting? 0 ZERO.

Its simple.. i Craft and sell Stuff. At the moment the Craftingsystem is loads of Profit. There are Items you can buy easy at wards and make into Items which vendor for way more, than you have spent. <_<

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dude did u even read what u wrote? this is what YOU wrote:
"LOL.. put up for sale? and who will buy it, if everyone can make them now?"

that means YOU think everyone can make things. i was talking about the idea that FROM WHAT YOU SAID that everyone can make things so nothin will sell.

did you just troll yourself into a new world where you dont even know what you wrote?