This only works if you have a reachable goal. As it stands, housing isn't reachable for a lot of people on legacy servers. That's the issue. I'm sorry that you can't see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59
New Live Letter: YoshiP Comments on Housing Prices
Printable View
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12-17-2013, 05:49 AMLiadansWhisper
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12-17-2013, 05:49 AMFerthAn investment implies returns. You don't invest money in something that won't yield more than you put in. There are no returns in this housing system. You can't even resell the land if you change your mind. This is a big bonfire to throw your money into. Throw enough in and you get a novelty gift.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59
Furthermore no one seems to have commented on the fact that I they increase the amount of Gil that can be produced via content, i.e. money being added to the economy rather than circulating through the economy, then this patch is really just allowing rmt to earn that much more money as well.
In all honesty square needs to hire an economist to point out how massively stupid this system is. Because they clearly have no concept of how economies actually function. -
12-17-2013, 05:51 AMLexxukThat is irrelevant, statistics are fun because they even everything out in unusual ways. Let's have some fun! You're in school (not you obviously, you seem more mature than a typical schooler) and in your class is 23 people. How many people share the same birthday?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zumi
Well, there are 365 days in a year, so you'd think that statistically, it would be unlikely for any two people in that class to have the same birthday, right? Maths time!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/9/c...3ea6d831d3.png
As you can plainly see, with 23 people in that class the odds of two people sharing the same birthday is greater than 50% (obviously it's not 100% and can't be unless there are 365 people in the class, though getting 365 people into a 5th class small.... that's 40,000,000 gil please)
Statistics are weird, and wonderful, there isn't a certain type of people that visits them, scroll back a few pages and you'll find a grandmother posting, the person posting above me may have a Phd in Theoretical Drama, it should be a nice cross section of the population at large, sure, it's the vocal population but statistics show that statistically, statistics are something, maybe. -
12-17-2013, 05:52 AMNanaya
I think I'd rather just wait for personal housing, if it's going to take over half a year to accrue funds if you are not in an FC with heads amounting in the triple digits. At least then I would have control over the design decisions and things of that nature.
Although when you get down to it, more than anything, my schadenfreude really wants to see this blow up in Square's face. I am well aware I am a terrible person. -
12-17-2013, 05:58 AMSilversnowNah. Intent is to suck out the massive gil reserves with gil farming and market to cover the remainder of the price. While I wince a bit at the prices for small/medium plots the prices are at least within reach of the general player.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloGenX
That whole 20k a day x members figure people are using to justify their rage really needs to go die in a fire as it's the stupidest calculation ever. Considering not everyone will even want a house you can also extract that daily 20k each from other players through the market. 20k is how much a bump on a log can generate for a FC.
If people really want to generate their housing using the slowest way possible that's on them but it's like trying to build a house using a rock to pound in the nails instead of a hammer or nail gun. You could... but why? -
12-17-2013, 06:01 AMSaevelI'm not implying that you are making this argument, but I keep seeing this in other posts as a justification or explanation of the exorbitant housing fees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59
My question is this: If the housing fees are structured in a way to remove large amounts of Gil from the economy, and housing is the only significant expense in the game, then why would they add in means to accumulate more Gil faster? Why increase the inflows and outflows, rather than make the housing costs reasonable in the first place? -
12-17-2013, 06:08 AMmyahele
Well this is disappointing. As of now FCs/ guilds don't serve too much of a role im game. With most main scenario quests being solo and not having a FC HQ its hard to build a lasting community.
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12-17-2013, 06:27 AMScarletyoshiTwo points.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBones
A) Small houses are barely bigger than a personal inn room. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsMjI....be&t=1h26m26s A FC of more than 10 people purchasing a small plot (on which you can ONLY build a small house) would be doing so for their FC leadership to enjoy, because no one else would fit.
B) Given that, the prices for such a small amount of space are unreasonable as well, even when split among a more realistic 2-6 people. Especially on Legacy servers that have to pay 10x the price but make the same 20k a day (post patch Yoshi-P estimates) as everyone else.
This is not about wanting the biggest and best on day one for free. We just want it to be reasonable. Maybe you can look at that video and say 20-40 million gil* is OK, but I can not.
*10-20 million if you wait 3 months AND no one buys it before you, keep in mind any new plots released afterward would start at the highest price. -
12-17-2013, 06:29 AMChiefCurraheeQuote:
Originally Posted by jomoru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arriverderci
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapesseLudovique
First of all you all need to learn how to read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raagnar
I never said that players were fine with this, JP or otherwise. I said the DEVELOPERS will DEVELOP content with COLLECTIVE ideals, simply because that's the foundation their culture is based on.
I think the prices are too high especially on the legacy worlds. But I'm not surprised by the lofty amounts simple because of the collective nature of Japanese culture. That doesn't mean everyone has to be happy with it. -
12-17-2013, 06:32 AMBlack91CRX
FC housing should have been bought using FC points instead of gil.
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12-17-2013, 06:33 AMEloc
Housing should be available for all FC's from small 10 man groups to large 100 person. You do realize you "loose" your personal gil when your FC buys a lot? getting 100 people do donate 2 million gil will be impossible, those 100 people would rather spend that on their personal housing, something they own. I dont think even 30 out of those 100 people will drop 100% of their personal gil to get a company house... unless its a freaking castle with lots of perks.
This is an EPIC FAIL
The FC i am in has maybe 15 active people, most of them are broke with under 50k on them. We saved and donated and ran FC events to farm up gil so we could buy a medium plot. we managed to get our 15 active\25 people to donate 2mil. Thats just 1\10th of what we need for the cheapest house? are you ffffff kidding me? ill save for personal housing, but they will probably price that the same ffs.
Lets all go play Wildstar!!! -
12-17-2013, 06:49 AMChiefCurraheeTo manage my money, when ever I have over 10k gil on my character, I split the exceeding amount between my retainers. One retainer is for my FC donations the other is for me. Between them I have ~620k gil. 500k of the gil will be donated to my FC. I will keep 120k for me. How many of your members are ready and willing to put forward the majority of their gil to see your FC succeed while retaining a lesser amount?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloc
It sucks you're on a legacy server and prices are crazy high. I have a legacy character as well I brought over 800k from 1.0. However, I decided to roll on a new sever for two reasons: 1) I wanted to experience the new game from the beginning. 2) I didn't want to compete in a F'd up economy brought over from 1.0. -
12-17-2013, 06:50 AMBLaCKnBLu3B3RRYQuote:
Originally Posted by Ramzal
what is this role bonus? can someone please tell me. -
12-17-2013, 06:54 AMjetsette1Queuing for a dungeon in the dungeon roulette as a 'role' (class) that is in desperate need. Basically queuing as a tank, or in some cases a healer. I -think- though it is unclear, that this might apply to queuing as a DPS that not many people play as...but like I said, that's unclear. It says 'role bonus' not 'class bonus' so I'm guessing 'role' is going to be tank/healer/DPS so the 'role' is going to be the one that's needed. i.e. mostly tanks and sometimes healers.Quote:
Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY
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12-17-2013, 06:56 AMVespar
The whole role bonus thing is going to end up being a very unfair and biased bonus for DPS. I doubt we'll ever see it really.
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12-17-2013, 07:03 AMDragonhaven
This is also assuming that moving such a large amount of gil to one chr to buy FC housing doesn't get you banned as they seem more than happy to ban legit players who are moving around large amounts of gil d(^.^)b good job guys. Keep hurting your player base ^^
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12-17-2013, 07:03 AMJonjon
When EQ2 released guild housing there were three tiers. Small, medium and large.
I forget what the prices for the other two tiers were, but the largest was 1000 platinum. I could make that money in a month by myself. Housing should never be exclusive, period. Housing is not a status item. It is meant to be an enjoyable side game. Personal housing in EQ2 is much the same. The largest personal house cost 7 Platinum with 5g/week upkeep, or you could choose the one that you upkeep with status and reduce the status cost to nothing. Plus there are ways to own a Mansion for free through in game events.
I took the liberty of logging into EQ2 to give this thread and the forums a look at housing that doesn't cost your soul.
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i4...ps703c9b54.png
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i4...pscebc37e9.png
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i4...psc686d7bd.png
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i4...ps8615b41f.png
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i4...pscb9ac863.png
EDIT: My framerate has been terrible in EQ2 since I upgraded my computer for some reason. So pay no mind to that horrible green 20. -
12-17-2013, 07:09 AMBLaCKnBLu3B3RRYi kind of figured that might be what he was talking about. but it seemed odd to factor something that might not viable into your earnings plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsette1
then i thought maybe he means the bonus you get for playing DF roulette for each type of content. but the patch notes doesn't specify this a 'role bonus'.
either way, thank you very much. :) -
12-17-2013, 07:13 AMForestwanderer
Here is what I am wondering. The plan for housing seems to be so horrid that that is what everyone is focused on. It also seems like something they could easily fix in a week or 2. Is this camouflage for something the players will probably not like and slowly accept if we are not paying attention to get worked up over it?
Just seems almost engineered to make the player base upset. That raises the question in my mind why do something they know will upset us? -
12-17-2013, 07:17 AMdelphinius81
The game has been out for almost 4 months, let's introduce new content that will require players to wait another 3+ months before they can use. I don't understand this logic. If players can't use the new content right away, why add it into the content update at all? In other MMOs, housing is something intended for more more casual players, with some trophy type rewards to show off raid/hard-mode type completions. This is the first MMO I have encountered where players are expected to farm instances repeatedly for several months to raise enough money to even buy a plot of land, let alone all the items to furnish the house. I for one will non be partaking in housing it seems.
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12-17-2013, 07:19 AMRi_riI think they simply don't have the physical means to support the instances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forestwanderer
Remember the launch login problems, or the 3 hours AK queues... they probably forced mister director into limiting access. -
12-17-2013, 07:20 AMNaberrie
One reason they may have priced it so high to begin with is to give them the opportunity to slow roll out the servers and test them. As they become more confident in the servers and feel they can increase the load they may drop the prices. Considering the server issues they've had so far, it wouldn't surprise me if this was a big reason.
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12-17-2013, 07:21 AMreci
People keep claiming how easy it is to make money with AH, but now that the stupid prices of housing have been released you can expect two things:
1- people wont buy as many things as before because they are saving their gils
2- alot more people will start to craft in hope to make gils and the AH will soon be flooded with underpriced gears.
In my opinion, from tomorrow on, AH will be a dead end when it comes to making gils... we will get very cheap gears tho... who am I to complain..................... -
12-17-2013, 07:21 AMApolloGenX
I know you think that the cheapest piece of junk plot is affordable... but for a small family style FC that has spent money leveling crafts and stuff that has focused more on leveling and stuff... it is a lot.
Besides... we are all RL friends... we were all laughing about how dumb this is- "Hey lets all chip in and buy a tiny little piece of junk!"... We actually decided we would rather all chip in and buy a tour bus to live in, rather than an over priced inn room sized shamehole.
Edit: We also laughed at the irony... 8 professional guys that all own their own houses (I have two) play magic wielding, sword slashing superheros in a fantasy world that can't put tiier money together to get a one room shanty. I mean you know times are hard when your superhero lives in the homeless shelter (inn). That's just sad. Although, it is hilarious in a terrible gaming experience kind of way. -
12-17-2013, 07:24 AMZumi
The NA Legacy servers have the highest price on the NA side. 312.5m for the biggest house. That is an awful lot of gil. If I spent around 8 hours crafting a day I probably could make 1m a day. But do that for 313 days forget it.
These houses are like similar to a mini game only a really expensive minigame. Did people get that much enjoyment from decorating their mog house in FFXI? Eventually FFXI made it so you can invite others into your mog house so you can show off your decorations. But really that was only fun for like a couple min. Decorating a house with furnishings only appeals to a small number of people and there is no reason it should cost that much.
I just don't see many people buying in to this house stuff given the enormous cost. -
12-17-2013, 07:35 AMEloceven if you did craft that much, you would flood the market, and how many others would think like you? their is only so much daily demand for items in the game and this would lead to drastic undercuttingQuote:
Originally Posted by Zumi
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12-17-2013, 07:36 AMNanayaThe issue is compounded by the fact that it's Free Company housing too. So if you're dropping a couple million, or to put it in simpler terms, over half of your personal funding into what is basically a fraternity house, you better go to bed every night hoping the leaders don't decide to stop playing, or an incident does not occur that leaves them incapable of playing for an extended period of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zumi
And don't even get me started on the implications of the proletariat members having to know their place and cowtow. Imagine contributing as much money as you can muster, and then somewhere down the pipeline you get kicked for whatever reason. This shit isn't like marriage, you don't get half. You better be on your best behavior if you're only a member of an FC and contributed to the cause. -
12-17-2013, 07:39 AMLafieleYou are not a fc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zumi
For all the end of the world of AH guys, the market will keep moving in fact even more so because people are all trying to make money and to make money, you must first spend money. -
12-17-2013, 07:42 AMSpayedNekoNews flash, it's FREE COMPANY HOUSING. Which means your example of you having to farm for 313 days is nonsense. It's not up to a single person to provide the gil for the plot of land, but the ENTIRE free company. Maybe you should factor that in before you throw out figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zumi
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12-17-2013, 07:48 AMkukurumeiNews flash that's a stupid remark on top of logical failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpayedNeko
that would mean you would need 313 active members all with top-teir gil production. And since this is againist the AH, you have 313 active members in direct competition with each other on the market board
and this is even assuming they put 100% income, which no member will, so even with a staggering 50% "FC tax" you're looking at ridiculous leaps of faiths.
If you're going to white knight it, news flash, read your own words first. -
12-17-2013, 07:48 AMDreadlockrasta
Lol, this mindless gil grind is just a gimmick to get people to play for another 3+ months till the next patch where there will actually be progression for players who have ilvl 90 everything.
And before you even say pvp, don't hold your breath, it's just gunna be world of bardcraft.
I can't wait till they announce that they will never have player housing, only a inn room in a FC house, that's when the shits gunna hit the fan. -
12-17-2013, 07:52 AMEloc
how about they make the lots affordable but make you pay an upkeep fee, adjust the upkeep fee to regulate the gil but dont penalize smaller fc's. considering the cheap servers are getting the same increase to gil creation as legacy the extra price is not worth 10x the initial cost
i think a 0 needs to be dropped off of all the costs
3 housing zones should have about 80 small lots each so 240 small lots, 40 medium lots at 120 total and 15 large lots for 45 total. i think this would easily take care of a servers needs you just need to use the housing space better. at this volume a small lot far away could cost 1 mil. -
12-17-2013, 08:06 AMNaunetPrecisely. Obtaining a house - any house - should only be the first, minor step in a lengthy and enjoyable process, and that step should be as short as possible. Rift gives everyone a free dimension upon completing an intro quest. It's small, but it's something to play around with, and Rift's dimension system lets you change the look of even that starter dimension so much that it'd be unrecognizable from its original, rather unimpressive form.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjon
Actually, to give ya'll a sense of what we could have if Squee wasn't such a Scrooge... Here's a dimension of mine! My fiance and I are slowly working on transforming it into the front for his character's evil lair - y'know, because enjoying the content and working towards a long-term goal is fun when it's more than just grinding gil to have access to a minimally customizable house.
When you enter, this is the first thing you see. Don't mind the scattered bug corpses - we just needed a place to keep them for now! xD
Of course, that's just the first thing you see. If you turn around, you're greeted by the following. Note that the boundary of the dimension ends just a little ways past that massive tree in the middle, before the bridge. Yes, the bulk of the lake is mine! Muwahahaha.
If we hang a right from that perspective, oh look! Where does this path go?
I suppose a graveyard is thematically appropriate.
Okay, back to the "house" (which is really only a tiny part of the whole dimension). Here we have our foyer and living room! It's very much under construction. The walls to the right with the boat and shelfing were entirely custom built by your's truly so that we could add a kitchen. To the far right, you can see a door that goes down to the basement.
This is the room we've spent the most time on so far: the kitchen! Everything in here had to be built from scratch pretty much - the counter, the stove (made out of a mine cart, a campfire, some fencing, and a window pane), the shelving on the far wall (oh my goodness, placing those shelves and the backing was so tedious - but worth it! xD).
For context, there didn't used to be an actual second floor in this house. The stairs led up to a sort of exposed hallway that ran around the outside edge of the room. We decided we wanted a room upstairs, so I went about laying down tile and wall pieces and so many wooden posts to create it! Also, added some stairs for extra effect.
Alas, we haven't put quite as much work into the decorating in this room as we have the kitchen. It's a long project, and we just work on it whenever we feel like. xD
Oh hey, did I mention there's a balcony? :D The dimension's rear boundary lets you go up the mountainside a ways, too.
And... what the heck is this under the house?
Oh, right. Okay. Evil cave. Nothing to see here, move along!
And here's the kicker: I got this dimension from working on a world event, purchased with world event currency. No gold or gil or whathaveyou spent at all (though I have spent a few plat on the various bits and pieces). We're starting to build a random airship over the lake just because we can, but it's so ugly right now I didn't wanna show it haha.
Anyway, I think these screenshots illustrate my point and my key complaint about XIV's housing. Squeenix has designed the system backwards and put all the effort into gil grinding, rather than actually enjoying their housing content. That is not how it should be! -
12-17-2013, 08:20 AMAenarionYes, because none of the crafters have gathering jobs, or can farm mats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafiele
Nope, not a single one of them :rolleyes: -
12-17-2013, 08:27 AMFatestormThis guy understands. Still outlandish, still outrageous, still insulting. Not good enough SE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lingarn
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12-17-2013, 08:35 AMEbojager
Not that I would do such a thing but, wont such high prices cause people to support the RMT and buy gil online?
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12-17-2013, 08:40 AMrex1976
LoL these designers must think we are stupid to not figure out they are in collusion with RMT, #1 rmt can spam you all day, you can take photo of spam and send to them but the account does not get deleted until it is blacklisted by everyone and the owner of account decides to make a new one and deletes it himself. WHY? #2 when you complain to se they say "just blacklist them". WHY?. now this is the big one #3. everyone needs 20-300M gil for a house. WHY? if you owned SE would you support rmt so drastically? is there any other mmorpg that has given RMT such a huge gift before?
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12-17-2013, 08:44 AMLady_Venus
hmmm its not the high prices that bothers me.. no matter how ridiculously high it is ... it wont be impossible. if you have dedicated people and spend time and effort you will get it eventually.. even if its after months sure takes alooooong time but not impossible.. but what bothers me most is this..
"YoshiP is saying it was set this way so players don’t buy out all the lands right away and end up in situation where none is available. RMT estimated gil has been removed from their amount, they checked how much gil the FC’s have and got the estimates."
So basically there is the chance that there will be no land available... ? personally to me this is worse than the high prices... knowing that even if i have the money there is no land i can buy cuz other people were faster than me and bought everything... ye not gonna be nice... -
12-17-2013, 08:46 AMSpayedNekoHe's confusing player housing with free company housing. When yoshi-p said the gil you earn from levelling 2-3 classes to 50 would buy you a basic house & land, he was talking about the currently not implemented player housing. Free company housing was always going to be a long term goal for free companies to work towards. I can understand how people feel the prices are a kick in the balls after the RMT flood, so all we can do is hope that SE doesn't ignore the problem and finds a middle road between affordable FC housing that everyone can get, and having a long term goal for FC to work towardsQuote:
Originally Posted by Fatestorm
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12-17-2013, 08:46 AMrex1976
i mean really, the gil buyers are going to have all the best/biggest houses while the grinders live in shacks, wich means either i buy gil or live in a shack? who benifits from this? SE has the brains to know that everything "elite" simply must require tokens(tomes) to shut RMT out of equasion. SE knows how to make money, and if they are not getting money from RMT then why would they not use the same economic model for best house as they use for best gear? WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY? if you have a single reason other than they are in collusion with RMT please share