Do you think bard desired a nerfing soon.

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Originally Posted by glen7187

Does the switch to Pugilist make a big difference for damage? It looks like the only helpful Pugilist skill for damage would be Internal Release right?

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Due to how DoTs works (taking a snapshot of buffs at the moment they are casted) and Bard ability to reset non-GCD skill Bloodletter from Crits made by DoTs, this play a huge role in my opinion.
I can cast my DoTs with 45% crit (with my current gear) with 2 DoTs ticking, I will reset Bloodletter every 2 tick. Without this buff, I would only have 25% crit and would reset only every 4 tick.
From just 1 buff with a 60 sec CD, I get huge a burst. This get exponentially better as we boost this effects with other buffs making insane damage during buff stacking.

Granted I have not tested the real impact and this is just theory.

If that is the case, maybe (just a suggestion) switching Pugilist back out for Conjurer would be a better "nerf". Since the job originally had Conjurer, its technically just bringing the class to its original idea, and this would lower the bards damage potential and give them more support skills shifting them more towards the support role... Although off the top of my head I'm not sure if any of Conjurer's cross class skills would really benefit a bard...

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Originally Posted by Thotor

Because you have not done end game yet ?

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I think you are missing the point it is still not an obligation to change class base on what ppl want more. Im pretty sure that after ppl get down the mechanics on the end content they will change the hole idea that they need an specific group for the content just like Ifrit when ppl said that u needed a caster to make it work they just like the easy way to do things nothing new. But you changing class is entirely up to you so dont make it look like it is mandatory to do end content stuff just get a group of ppl that would not mind trying and working together with you.

To the people that say "buff other DPS, don't nerf Bards!" doesn't understand game design or balance.

I'll make this short and sweet.


Nerf 1 class or buff 2-4 classes?
Everyone loves buffs right? That is correct however most people can't see the long term effects those buffs have on games. Power creep is a bad thing and if you can avoid doing it you really should try. The number of changes needed to nerf 1 class vs buffing 2-4 is a huge difference. Each change has a ripple effect on the class as well as the world. Also each change has a chance to cause new bugs. The goal should be to make as few changes as possible to clear up the problem.

Bards vs other classes stacking
Lets be honest. Bards are the only class that stacks with themselves. Other classes can't stack but they cans till help bards. Bards can sing songs for eachother and other people. DRG, MNK, WAR, SCH, none of those classes can stack well with themselves. DRGs can't stack Dis for the 10% resist reductions. However both Dragoons should be using the combo that puts the debuff up because it is their highest potency combo. The same goes for Monk and warrior 10% resist reductions. SCH not only fail to stack with another SCH but they fail to stack alone. SCH damage reduction zone lowers damage to 90% and so it cant stack with another version of that zone. SCH shields do not stack at all.

Bards damage while singing songs
People say they lose 20% damage while singing songs while ignoring the fact that they have a trait that increases their damage by 20%. Bards are over par while not singing songs and where they should be while singing songs.

I am not going to go into what needs to change for Bards because the devs are going to narrow down the problem their own way and fix only what they think needs to be fixed. They have a design and they are going to keep it that way. However with Bards, the numbers are a little high for a class with so much utility and mobility as well as how safe and easy the class is to play.

no matter you like or dislike, the bard in this game just like barb in diablo3. Too op and too obvious op. I am waiting for a tuning( nerf) on this class. Otherwise in upcoming pvp we will only see bard. Kating all other class and kill them all. Monk 3 light, my goodness, how you can maintain that when you can't even touch them.

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Originally Posted by Thotor

Due to how DoTs works (taking a snapshot of buffs at the moment they are casted) and Bard ability to reset non-GCD skill Bloodletter from Crits made by DoTs, this play a huge role in my opinion.
I can cast my DoTs with 45% crit (with my current gear) with 2 DoTs ticking, I will reset Bloodletter every 2 tick. Without this buff, I would only have 25% crit and would reset only every 4 tick.
From just 1 buff with a 60 sec CD, I get huge a burst. This get exponentially better as we boost this effects with other buffs making insane damage during buff stacking.

Granted I have not tested the real impact and this is just theory.

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i was under the impression that the cooldown of bloodletter is only reset if the initial cast of the DoT crits. i did not think that the individual ticks of the DoT could crit

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Originally Posted by fauxpas

i was under the impression that the cooldown of bloodletter is only reset if the initial cast of the DoT crits. i did not think that the individual ticks of the DoT could crit

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Each crit of the tick can reset blood letter.

If they don't come out a class balance patch before pvp out, I can see lots of people going quit the game. I saw this happened a few time in MMO game industry.

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Originally Posted by MalcolmReynolds

It's not strictly the damage. It's also the utility stacked with it.

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Bards do less damage than other classes though, hence why I said check a parser. The mobility and the utility (which also reduces our damage further) is the tradeoff. Songs aren't that great either without the use of Battle Voice. At the end of the day the class has a high skill floor and can help compensate for healers who mismanage MP - of course it's going to be popular with the average player.

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Wrong on that one, "buddy." BRD was designed to be support. A DPS with really nice perks that overshadow most of the positives any other DPS classes have.

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There is no support classification, nor is there a DPS job that uses a bow. Every DPS class has some kind of support utility. You're a lancer, what would you call disembowel?

Alright, I lied in my last post. I will give a small amount of feedback on how I think bard should be changed. I would change Increased Action Damage I and II

Example

Increased Action Damage II: Increases base action damage by 20% after standing still for 3 seconds. This buff lasts for 1 second after moving.

This targets their mobility without removing it. This targets their damage without lowering it. Last but not least this targets their positioning without changing their abilities.

While that will not fix all the problems people have with bards (another being song stacking). I do think it is a solid start.