WAR vs PLD HP values and EHP.

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Originally Posted by wlakiz

WAR's infuriate is a 60s cooldown so 5 wrath stacks is pretty much always up. Common strategy is to pop infuriate right after using inner beast to maintain the 15% heal buff. Against bursts, the calculation for warrior's 'mitigation' should be Burst damage - Inner Beast. For a 5000 damage attack, pally would take 4000 damage, while a warrior takes 3500. (5000 - ~1500)

Most damage bursts are magic based so block doesn't do anything.

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You absolutely wont have infuriate up for every breath attack / burst spell. I can assure that. You will be able to Inner Beast each of them, for sure. But infurate's cooldown is longer than that.

And that also ignores PLD's cooldowns. So you have to use a cooldown as a WAR to even catch up to a PLD without using a Cooldown...

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

You absolutely wont have infuriate up for every breath attack / burst spell. I can assure that. You will be able to Inner Beast each of them, for sure. But infurate's cooldown is longer than that.

And that also ignores PLD's cooldowns. So you have to use a cooldown as a WAR to even catch up to a PLD without using a Cooldown...

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Inner beast is not a cooldown, it is part of Warrior's core mechanic, which surpasses PLD's 20% core mitigation is per my example. Popping Infuriate is to maintain the heal boost, if you don't use it, you can still get 5 wrath back in 3 rotations.

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Originally Posted by wlakiz

Inner beast is not a cooldown, it is part of Warrior's core mechanic, which surpasses PLD's 20% core mitigation is per my example. Popping Infuriate is to maintain the heal boost, if you don't use it, you can still get 5 wrath back in 3 rotations.

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Inner beast isn't but Infuriate is.

If you don't use infuriate you lose a significant amount of healing which puts you WAY behind the 20% damage mitigation, and you're talking about mitigating part of one big hit, while the damage keeps coming after that one hit. It takes at least 20 seconds to get back up to 5 stacks. That means if you don't have infuriate up that you take significantly more mana, and significantly more GCD's to keep up despite mitigating more of that single large hit.

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Originally Posted by Lharz

EHP with parry/block is not called EHP.

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Exactly. EHP is effectively a measure of burst survivability. It is still not the complete picture, as the mechanic for Warrior increased EHP does not affect healing identically. Evasion stats don't matter.** You are looking at taking and surviving a "burst" which is typically an auto attack, special, auto attack, plus any ambient damage that hit you in very quick order. You will almost certainly receive limited healing during the burst, but equally important is surviving to past the burst. It doesn't matter if you lived through the burst barely and then died to an auto attack. I'd say that, judging from the numbers people have used, a fight where the boss puts out ~2500 DPS linearly would be a trivial fight for those going through Coil. Change the structure to lower linear DPS with non-linear spike damage and things get significantly harder.

**Evasion mechanics, at high values, can be used to significantly lower the burst damage probability. This is why Defense had to be changed in early WoW via a 33% value nerf across all items. They also contribute to efficiency which extremely important for endurance fights which seem to have left the realm of MMOs for the most part.

1) war holds hate better.
2) We can deal with adds
3) we self heal between engagements very effectively.
4) war stuns work against big physical attacks and is off gcd. It lasts over 5 seconds. PLD's isn't.
5) war deals significant damage. In a "Last sliver" situation, war can berzerk and end the engagement. I've done this several times.
6) war can spike heal ourselves with sub abilities nearly as good as pld can. We can use moves like Mantra to enhance that.

7) war get the same gear as you.
8) war need 0 points in str due to unchanined and berzerk. I put absolutely every single point into vit. Crits are insane, and come often due to our stats, and stack on things like pug heal, and Inner Beast. We are always infurated endgame, it takes literally seconds. Other things enhance crits. These are wildly ignored, because they are semi random, but if you parse the data on someone who knows what they're doing, you'll see the balance.

9) Vengeance is ignored. Coupled with bloodbath, physically swift attacking enemies (or groups of them) heal us to full without any intervention. Remember MNK in ff11's 2 hour ability? It's like that.
10) Storm's Eye, Fracture, and our base DPS with combos is completely ignored. The fight will be ended MUCH sooner with a WAR then with a PLD (if you can't have both), who's damage might as well not exist in most cases - you have no skills which ignore the enemy defense or cause them to take more damage, or prevent self healing.

it's simple:

PLD is an excellent tank for magic using, unstunnable bosses who are a single target fight ESPECIALLY MAGIC USING.

WAR is an excellent tank for physical, swift attacking foes, or those who spawn add-on, or enemies who shift agro randomly, as they can be dealt with using Holmgang, or fights that need to be ended sooner then later.

They're both good for different things. Other WAR crying for a balance need to learn the job.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

They're both good for different things. Other WAR crying for a balance need to learn the job.

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Says the level 42 Warrior...

Remember when you said:

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Originally Posted by Lhun

Vengeance is ignored. Coupled with bloodbath, physically swift attacking enemies (or groups of them) heal us to full without any intervention.

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Yeah, that was POSSIBLY the most laughable thing I've read. Particularly coming from a WAR that doesn't have Vengeance yet.

You don't have the information necessary to make such grandiose claims.

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Originally Posted by Lhun

it's simple:

PLD is an excellent tank for magic using, unstunnable bosses who are a single target fight ESPECIALLY MAGIC USING.

WAR is an excellent tank for physical, swift attacking foes, or those who spawn add-on, or enemies who shift agro randomly, as they can be dealt with using Holmgang, or fights that need to be ended sooner then later.

They're both good for different things. Other WAR crying for a balance need to learn the job.

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You obviously have no idea what you are talking about... Don't put other people down when you are not max level and have not experienced end game - half the information that you assume to be true is totally off. The concern with warriors is not 4 man encounters, that has never been an issue... Its the 8 mans where warriors suffer.