Would you consider greedy DPS Mechanics on Tanks/Healers good or bad?

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I think enrage prevents silly strats, but that isn't the worst thing, I think most important element is that it ensures the DD role is needed (dps checks in general). Otherwise you would probably see even more all tank or mostly tanks and a healer comps. No enrage and a boss that can self heal though, that's uh... Pretty bad combo lol.

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Might be nice for the occasional gimmick fight like M2S but if it became a regular thing it would just be frustrating.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

Put a rez limit on players per battle. Put in a mechanic where if you have rez sickness at that time, you aren't rezzable again for the rest of the battle.

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That still wouldn't test whether or not your dps can do more than dodge AoEs, because that's really all an enrage timer is, a check to see if the dps players (and to a more minor extent the tanks and healers) know how to actually do their job.
As Shougun already said, the enrage is one of the few things that justify a dps-job's existence.

Especially if you had only limited revives and no enrage, party composition would most likely just become 8 tanks. They have more than enough self-heal to keep each other alive, can straight up face-tank mechanics that would kill other roles and you can cover every tank buster with an invuln.
And even if they removed tank self-sustain entirely, you would just run 6 tanks and 2 healers if needed, dps jobs would be an added risk due to how squishy and unnecessary they would be.

Its all bad because anything that shows even a small amount of skill in this game fries the brain of the average FF14 consoomer

I don't think support roles need more ways to dps and reasons to greed mechanics. Rather I think it would be good to split tanks like we split healers. Maybe pld and war being more main tank for self sustain and gbr and drk more off tank with party support. On top of this healers with more nuance and ways to figure out a heal plan in a fight.

Please let cleric stance stay in the grave where it is. It was silly that healer damage was based on INT instead of MND. And 99.9999999% of the time when you hit it, someone in the party would take avoidable damage that you had to address. And it had a cooldown to turn off, but not on. It was also finicky as hell about whether it really wanted to register that you had tried to turn it on or off.

I cheered so much when that went away and they made healer dps based on MND. It made flipping between healing responsibilities and tossing in damage flow so much better. They can build on that idea if they want to, but please don't bring cleric stance back.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Please let cleric stance stay in the grave where it is. It was silly that healer damage was based on INT instead of MND. And 99.9999999% of the time when you hit it, someone in the party would take avoidable damage that you had to address. And it had a cooldown to turn off, but not on. It was also finicky as hell about whether it really wanted to register that you had tried to turn it on or off.

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I believe that was what percentage-based heals were for? I know WHM has Benediction and SCH had Lustrate (and maybe Lilybell also wasn't affected by it?) at least

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

I believe that was what percentage-based heals were for? I know WHM has Benediction and SCH had Lustrate (and maybe Lilybell also wasn't affected by it?) at least

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The only percentage heal after ARR was Bene. And the point remains that it was the equivalent of having to put chains on your car to make a left turn and take them off to make a right. It added nothing to the kit; it merely divided the kit in half so that you'd be locked out of healing for 2-3 GCDs (depending on how early a weave the activation was on and whether one made the then-mistake of taking any SpS) after prepping an attack that wasn't a mere waste of mana.

There is a reason to have a skill that increases the damage and decreases the healing of hybrid (damage+healing, such as Assize, Earthen Star, Pneuma, etc.) skills. There is never a reason to require a button-press just to be allowed to use the other half of one's buttons as anything more than an action even less efficient/useful than being afk.

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Originally Posted by Allooutrick

I don't think support roles need more ways to dps and reasons to greed mechanics. Rather I think it would be good to split tanks like we split healers. Maybe pld and war being more main tank for self sustain and gbr and drk more off tank with party support. On top of this healers with more nuance and ways to figure out a heal plan in a fight.

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They did originally try to split tanks into main and off tanks, but then they remembered that dungeons exist and every tank needs to be able to main tank (tank swaps in hard content also exist, so every tank has to be able to act as the main tank, even for a short while), so they just scrapped the idea.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

The only percentage heal after ARR was Bene. And the point remains that it was the equivalent of having to put chains on your car to make a left turn and take them off to make a right. It added nothing to the kit; it merely divided the kit in half so that you'd be locked out of healing for 2-3 GCDs (depending on how early a weave the activation was on and whether one made the then-mistake of taking any SpS) after prepping an attack that wasn't a mere waste of mana.

There is a reason to have a skill that increases the damage and decreases the healing of hybrid (damage+healing, such as Assize, Earthen Star, Pneuma, etc.) skills. There is never a reason to require a button-press just to be allowed to use the other half of one's buttons as anything more than an action even less efficient/useful than being afk.

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I suppose it's complexity just for the sake of adding complexity, but then where is the line for that? They took it to an extreme and it's basically why the dps kits of healers have been condensed down to 2 buttons + 2~3 oddities that are scarcely available while we rarely even have to deal with the opportunity cost of using a casted heal now. All the while DPS and Tank rotations are anything but efficient, and their deleting any meaningful kit interaction's made many skills into nothing more than extra damage buttons.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

They did originally try to split tanks into main and off tanks, but then they remembered that dungeons exist and every tank needs to be able to main tank (tank swaps in hard content also exist, so every tank has to be able to act as the main tank, even for a short while), so they just scrapped the idea.

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As much as I was a fan of old tank stances in concept, tanking dungeons on Paladin was absolutely miserable.
Granted that was not just due to Shield Oath.

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

I suppose it's complexity just for the sake of adding complexity, but then where is the line for that?

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If it had added any more control at the time than just Assize-hits-for-non-negligible-damage vs. Assize-hits-for-non-negligible-healing, then I'd have been cool with it. Instead, it reduce available nuance, jumpstarted a long-standing era of fearful "you don't pay my sub" healers who'd refuse any damage-dealing, and disproportionately punished ping and packet issues more than any other skill besides oGCD mudras.

If it were to return on a job with many hybrid attack-heals now that healers use Mind for everything (e.g., in order to balance said healers total output while still allowing them both real choice in damage vs. healing and the flavor of hybrid skills), I'd be happy with it. It just happened to be objectively poorly implemented (and even conceived) as it's actually existed at any point in the game.

I know it's been popular lately to look at any instance that might align with a net-negative trend as necessarily negative in kind, but there are some forms of complexity that not only added nothing for their bloat but actually precluded in-practice complexity. Cleric Stance was one of them, and its removal was not a bad thing, nor was it relevant to the removal of healers' previously greater number of offensive tools.

We've since added many more tools (raid buffs, Lilly Bell equivalents, yet more hit-on-CD abilities) that arguably contextually likewise actually dumb down the surrounding game in practice more than they add to it on paper. I similarly wouldn't be sad to see some of those adjusted.