Viper Changes are good, actually

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KazumaFaemura

Viper doesn't play anything like Zidane, that would have been Rogue before it changed to Ninja (Honestly I wish Rogue and Ninja were split apart really liked that class ;~; )

---

You're think about his RPG turn base combat game play which was a normal Rogue class/job.

They based Viper's design on Zidane style more from his Dissidia games involving how he separates and fuse his daggers together.

They obviously modified certain aspects since they cannot use daggers and to avoid having the battle stance looking too much like Rogue/Ninja battle stance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

You're think about his RPG turn base combat game play which was a normal Rogue class/job.

They based Viper's design on Zidane style more from his Dissidia games involving how he separates and fuse his daggers together.

They obviously modified certain aspects since they cannot use daggers and to avoid having the battle stance looking too much like Rogue/Ninja battle stance.

---

Oh right I completely forgot about Dissidia's existence. That's fair enough then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

They based Viper's design on Zidane style more from his Dissidia games involving how he separates and fuse his daggers together.

---

They've never stated Zidane as an inspiration, they added a double sword job because that's the most requested weapon they've been asked for, they even name dropped Sword Art Online as the inspiration for most of the abilities/moves, which checks out, Viper is basically the anime swordsman class.

This is in contrast with Gunbreaker, which was very clearly based on Squall, borrowing the moves and stances from both his original and Dissidia appearances (and borrowing a little from Seifer) whereas Viper has no such thing from Zidane, with no moves or similar stances being borrowed. The only thing that suggests inspiration from Zidane is the Twinblade.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tizzy_Tormentor

They've never stated Zidane as an inspiration, they added a double sword job because that's the most requested weapon they've been asked for, they even name dropped Sword Art Online as the inspiration for most of the abilities/moves, which checks out, Viper is basically the anime swordsman class.

This is in contrast with Gunbreaker, which was very clearly based on Squall, borrowing the moves and stances from both his original and Dissidia appearances (and borrowing a little from Seifer) whereas Viper has no such thing from Zidane, with no moves or similar stances being borrowed. The only thing that suggests inspiration from Zidane is the Twinblade.

---

I feel like in the context that this is the xpac that borrowed the most from FFIX and the two forms of Viper's weapon both mimic the weapons of the MC of FFIX, it's not off base for them to think Viper was inspired by Zidane. It might not be a 1:1 representation like GNB, but inspiration? No shot it wasn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AddictedToWitches

due to its low timer (20s) noxious gash was incredibly bad to maintain, the timer itself had an awkward duration
It was either extend noxious gash's timer, or get rid of it. I think getting rid of it was the best choice.
The intent behind the two combos was to rotate them anyway, now you actually do that instead of doing dread fangs once, steel fangs twice (during the downtime windows where that happens)
The theoretical triple reawakening is a bit of a meme but it allows more damage into a specific burst window you can use to line up with raids buffs.
Also double reawakening was pushing the dread fangs timer, note that unless you popped one dread fangs (not even the full combo) you'd still have not enough time to do two full reawakenings back to back. Tighter window than GNB's no mercy

---

No, it wasn't. You just sucked at the job. People who enjoyed how it was shouldn't suffer a boring job due to your incompetence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Higashikata

It was the one single thing viper had to think about at any point, now it's just an auto pilot job

---

You are supposed to think about boss mechanics, not how to play your class.

I hope they remove Death's Design on reaper as well, it completly breaks the flow of the job and feels very annoying to use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arohk

You are supposed to think about boss mechanics, not how to play your class.

---

Why can it not be both? Both interesting class gameplay AND interesting boss mechanics?
or
Why can we not have some classes where you don't have to think about how to play your class, and some classes where you do? Would that really be such an awful situation?
or
It is indefinitely more difficult to design interesting boss encounters every time, especially when you have to factor in different difficulties depending on what content you play, than interesting classes. Making classes fun works in every combat content, no matter where.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lamarcy2699

No, it wasn't. You just sucked at the job. People who enjoyed how it was shouldn't suffer a boring job due to your incompetence.

---

To also add to my own comment, if you REALLY struggle managing something (as in you're just physically incapable) then just take the damage loss. I'm not saying drop the buff entirely but if you struggled maintaining it then just do it to the best of your ability. There should always be a skill expressions that allows for people to show their competence at a job. I don't want the only difference between a competent and incompetent player at the same job to be just crit and maybe positionals since the job plays itself now. This goes for more things than FFXIV but if you truly struggle at something you really want to do then you should always either strive to do better, understand compromises for what you can/can't do, or accept that maybe this just isn't for you. Don't expect things to shape around what you can and cannot do and always try your fullest to improve and better yourself in areas you think you're lacking. If you never had an interest in it and only did it "just because" then maybe you shouldn't be talking about removing the fun those who do care about it are having.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arohk

You are supposed to think about boss mechanics, not how to play your class.

I hope they remove Death's Design on reaper as well, it completly breaks the flow of the job and feels very annoying to use.

---

This is gonna be a bit of a shock but you could be doing both. Crazy I know. Previous expansions had both job expressions AND fight difficulty! Just cutting out one element of that makes the game far too easy unless they overcompensate in a particular area. They tried this in Endwalker (with Endwalkers simplification of jobs) with Pandaemonium Savage where there was such an over-reliance on body checks that it just introduced a lot of tedium into progging the fights, then reclears just becoming dull because rotations were not interesting and you didn't have the thoughts going on the same as you did in prog. I'm not opposed to body checks but over reliance creates a sense of artificial difficulty.

As for current VPR, in my honest opinion, it just feels awful to play in anything that isn't savage. If a job requires the current hardest content to be "tolerable" then that's just an indication that it's not a well thought out job. Removing Noxious Gas has removed almost all of the "rush" that VPR once had. It requires 0 skill and brainwork to do well on now. It's pitifully boring.

I can't say I noticed a difference. I don't do the harder stuff so maybe that's why I didn't notice.