Summoner rework makes the job feel like a summoner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naizuo
The reason for all jobs becoming streamlined and well designed is because this is what really matters most: enabling people to play their fantasy job whatever that is. The people who don't want to play difficult stuff are far more attached to being able to play the job they want to play from a fantasy perspective than playing what is accessible. What if the only accessible jobs to this demographic are ones they feel are thematically a poor fit for them? People who care about skill expression and difficulty will often say things like "it doesn't matter what my job is or what it looks like, I just want to play difficult rotations". Even your own statement proves that you couldn't care less about what job you're playing. The problem is you're trying to force that on others and you're doing it in a really maladaptive way.
If you want something difficult and cerebral, that feeling should come from the level of encounter you are up against. Not the rotation of the job. You are trying to gatekeep people from their fantasies. The gameplay of a job on a training dummy shouldn't be too complicated in any case, the complexity and difficulty of the game should come from encounter design. You people are too attached to making jobs difficult, and this is why encounter design has become so simple.
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05-22-2024, 07:02 AMHikariKurosawa
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05-22-2024, 07:06 AMTurtledeluxeIsn't this more of an argument that they should have stopped with Endwalker and allocated those resources into FFXVII? Same with WoW-- maybe they should've sacrificed some money in the short term for the long term gain of a next gen WoW. We won't ever know what the results of these things because they didn't/won't happen. It shouldn't really be a thing where players become jaded of a game imo. Devs should intuitively understand when it's time to sunset their game based on the market, player expectations, and their own creative ambitions. Maybe the publishers are at fault for the stagnation of these big titles, who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven2014
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05-22-2024, 08:07 AMRaven2014Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe
If FF17 is an MMO, then yes, that's exactly my argument.
The point is you can't really attribute the blame in a practical manner though. A quick scan of the forum and you'll see the majority of the argument are split. 10 years is a long time for a lot of thing to change. You have new player vs old player who does not share the same taste or mind set, and even someone taste can change over time. And that is before you account for logistic and practical issue, here are a few examples of issues that often came up:Quote:
It shouldn't really be a thing where players become jaded of a game imo.
- Class balance: since the launch the game had added 10 jobs, that's a lot more job to balance comparing to launch. Assuming in the next 10 years we will have at least another 8 job ... well, unless they somehow hire some miracle workers, there will be absolutely no way to avoid classes become streamline or feel the same. I'm never an pessimists but for a game to have 30 classes, anyone to expect all of them gonna be balance and unique at the same time ... well, I think the chance of humanity discovering new cure for cancel in the next 10 years is probably HIGHER than that.
- Difficulty: this is another split. If I look at it objectively, I can tell the upper tier contents (savage) had gotten harder. But as a veteran, I'm also harder to please. Outside of Ultimate nothing really excites me anymore, but again, is that the game fault? I think a lot of people severely underestimate how much institutional knowledge can affect one perception. I have seen mythic raider come to FF14 and fail miserably at the beginning, just like I've seen FF14 savage raiders got kicked out of heroic dungeons in WoW for being bad. The point is ... it's not really just about the innate difficulty, but experience as well. To its credit, FF14 does try to please everyone with all these different tiers. But then as we repeatably see, EVERYONE, from the casual to the hardcore always gonna be arguing for their interest to be deserving a bigger pie of the content, and everyone consider it's the developer's failure to do so.
That's why IMO, it's not just gaming but sometime you see overachieve people decide to move on, to seek new challenge. Instead of demanding the current working formula to change for your sake, you can simply seek it out. If I move on to a new MMO, it would be more challenging but it won't be necessary because it's harder than FF14. It would be more challenge for me simply because I no longer possess 10 years worth of institutional knowledge.
Must we always find something or someone to be guilty and at fault? That's kinda my whole point. Sometime a relationship broke down because of some catastrophic failure, but some other time you can accept that things have run its course and part amicably, not everything have to be drama.Quote:
Devs should intuitively understand when it's time to sunset their game based on the market, player expectations, and their own creative ambitions. Maybe the publishers are at fault for the stagnation of these big titles, who knows.
And it's always easier to talk idealistic, I prefer to be a bit more grounded. Yes, ideally I think an MMO should only last for 10 years at most. But MMO is expensive to make, and always a big risk, don't forget 1.0 almost killed SE itself. You also see other ambitious tittles from deep pocket publishers that fail to capture the market. The development cost of a MMO and the size of the market makes me think FF14 maybe one of the last of its kind. I think other people realize it too and maybe that's why they're still trying to hang onto it so bitterly, once you jump off this ship ... there isn't really a better one to land on.