Players and the game design's mindset has become increasingly individualistic

[Rekh]

Interesting how easily square enix and its defenders forget the lessons of ffxiv 1.0

[Ardeth]

All we have gained is a mediocre single player expirience.
The MMO part of this game is dead. The players are only in their ERP head space, there is no flavour or texture. You just go in a dungeon with 3 or more other players who are so robotic, they may as well be bots. The expirience is so much on rails that you start falling asleep not even half way through the first boss.
I used to like doing the daily roulettes and talking with other players. Now I can't even do more than 3 at a time cause I start falling asleep, and even then I need some sort of distraction like a YT video or music to even get through. No role is engaging enough after the 3rd run, no job is interesting after a few days of playing.
Everything is just boring. The most fun I had in game recently was when the tank got disconnected and the rest of us didn't notice, we got to the last boss by the time the tank returned. And it is sad.

And this is why I've spent the better part of this year not playing 14. I only came back for the Yokai event. Hell, I'm not even excited for Dawntrail. I know it's going to be the same game repackaged with an Aztec theme. I know it. It's depressing.

[Mikey_R]

Combat wise, this game has become so streamlined it's abysmal. Bare with me here for a second, but why not just keep the jobs more "difficult" "difficult" and push out a few newer jobs to be easier to pick up and play instead? For example, take SMN rework, it's a good rework and such a great baseline to start with overall but, they managed to split the SMN playerbase heavily by turning it into a mindless blob of a job.

Simple question, what would make a job difficult to play?

[Acelyn]

i've been playing for almost 9yrs, this was my first and pretty much only mmorpg mainly because of curiosity, a love of FF and controller support(damn fine controller support!)

and imho the game is at its best when players have to be actively involved in something, i'm not even a social butterfly and feel that way, i see why trust and limited jobs and other systems exist but in this game the actual content can be very very boring and even more simple than it already is without real people doing random things & sometimes mucking stuff up, something as simple as running a dungeon doesnt get boring because of what those other 3 players may bring, will it be you and 3 players who know this place like the back of your hand and you breeze through say gg and scamper your separate ways OR will it be you and 3 others who have no clue whats going on, mistakes happen, someone dies, the group wipes, that player who reset first sprinted to the boss and is dancing while waiting for everyone, those moments are what makes this game.

i like seeing when the game is full of busy players in a place, like now in the gold saucer, sure theyre not all talking to each other but it livens the game up, its better than the flipside of the island sanctuary which i get it, is supposed to be a solo oasis, but its boring, if i wanted to play that game i'd fire up stardew valley, did i play the island sanc tho? yes, cause i wanted the outfits! oddly enough that grind sorta took the place of the awful relics in endwalker.

I wont get mad at players for wanting to play solo, that was my exact plan years ago when i started playing it, i googled info, searched forums, just wanting to know how much of the game i actually have to play as a "solo" player, i didnt wanna deal with any of you online oddballs...then i queued up for satasha...and it was awesome, everything sorta clicked, i was a tank, brand spankin new, the dps gave me some tips, the healer was like youll be fine i wont let you die! and i didnt, it was great. has every run through 8yrs of playing been great? f**k no, but the good runs far outweigh the bad ones, and even the bad ones were fun in that tedious, wtf is happening right now sort of way.

from my point of view the game is letting players dodge that epic moment that should happen early on and its a bummer because now the game is split, the devs have to make 'everyone' content and then 'solo' content and both sides of content feel weaker as a whole, and that just spreads through the game, endwalker is a shining example of it, great story, very meh followup content, in comparison to older expacs.

[Acelyn]

Simple question, what would make a job difficult to play?

thats easy,

a DoT job coming back would soothe alot of players anger, i actually like new smn, but I also remember how og smn was fun to get right, sorta like old old bard aka the bowmage.

at its core resource management isnt easy, if they made a chemist job that took true skill players would flock to it, just give those people a boatload of DoT's, timers and solid damage if done right and you wouldnt hear a peep from them.

[Raven2014]

And this is why I've spent the better part of this year not playing 14. I only came back for the Yokai event. Hell, I'm not even excited for Dawntrail. I know it's going to be the same game repackaged with an Aztec theme. I know it. It's depressing.

Can you name me one game, MMO or otherwise, that managed to innovate itself after 10 years? Because I can't think of any. Ideally, that's why I don't think an MMO should last for more than 10 years otherwise it will buckle under its own weight and the expectation of veteran players. Not even WoW managed to do that. It peak during Wotlk, and Cata should have been the swansong. But when Blizz decided to cancel WoW2 and reinvest everything to upgrade WoW ... it's just downhill from there. And I feel FF14 is reaching the very same point IMO. At this point I'm not sure it's possible to satisfy the expectation of both the old players and still drawing in the new players at the same time.


I think Dawn Trail gonna be the last expansion for me unless it does something really refreshing and amazing. But ... I'm not complaining neither I'm feeling bitter about it like some other people. If you eat the same apple for nearly 10 years, then complain why doesn't it involve into an orange or something else ... but would that be the apple's fault? If you've been eating at the same restaurant for 10 years then finally get bored of the menu ... while it maybe somewhat valid to complain but looking at it from another angle: the menu must have been good enough for you to keep coming back that long? No? And there will be new customer coming in that will find the current delightful just like you did on the the first visit.

So that's my take, when I finally leave the game I want it to be on the good note. I would like to appreciate FF14 for a good ride that it gave me, and I want to wish everyone stilling playing FF14, especially new players will be able to continue enjoy it for the next 5-10 years. I don't want to leave the game in resentment and contempt for the developers, accusing them of being lazy or incompetent. I don't want to selfishly believe my taste if the ultimate ingredient for success, and anything doesn't please me is destined to fail. So yeah, fully expect Dawn Trail to be my swan song, if it anyone think they're getting to the same point it may be better to prepare yourself mentally with a positive mindset. Everything must come to an end eventually, but the ending don't have to be on a sour note over unrealistic expectation.

[posona]

Please. If everyone who had an issue with the trajectory actually left, it would only comprise a fraction of a fraction of the playerbase. Not only have we been outnumbered from the very beginning, the ShB new player increase skewed the ratio even further, and it's not like this mentality is particularly thriving with new adherents at the moment. For every one person who finally gets fed up and leaves for good, they'll get replaced by ten non-jaded players. Soon, no one will even remember what came before, which is for the best, honestly.

Game will be fine. Accepting that all this time has been wasted is harder to swallow, but we'll get over it eventually, as there's no other meaningful alternative. Some of our paths to that understanding this are just a bit longer and confusing than others.

Sorry, I worded that weird, I meant that the game would be fine, as in “would leaving make the game better? No.”

[Rekh]

Can you name me one game, MMO or otherwise, that managed to innovate itself after 10 years? Because I can't think of any. Ideally, that's why I don't think an MMO should last for more than 10 years otherwise it will buckle under its own weight and the expectation of veteran players. Not even WoW managed to do that. It peak during Wotlk, and Cata should have been the swansong. But when Blizz decided to cancel WoW2 and reinvest everything to upgrade WoW ... it's just downhill from there. And I feel FF14 is reaching the very same point IMO. At this point I'm not sure it's possible to satisfy the expectation of both the old players and still drawing in the new players at the same time.


I think Dawn Trail gonna be the last expansion for me unless it does something really refreshing and amazing. But ... I'm not complaining neither I'm feeling bitter about it like some other people. If you eat the same apple for nearly 10 years, then complain why doesn't it involve into an orange or something else ... but would that be the apple's fault? If you've been eating at the same restaurant for 10 years then finally get bored of the menu ... while it maybe somewhat valid to complain but looking at it from another angle: the menu must have been good enough for you to keep coming back that long? No? And there will be new customer coming in that will find the current delightful just like you did on the the first visit.

So that's my take, when I finally leave the game I want it to be on the good note. I would like to appreciate FF14 for a good ride that it gave me, and I want to wish everyone stilling playing FF14, especially new players will be able to continue enjoy it for the next 5-10 years. I don't want to leave the game in resentment and contempt for the developers, accusing them of being lazy or incompetent. I don't want to selfishly believe my taste if the ultimate ingredient for success, and anything doesn't please me is destined to fail. So yeah, fully expect Dawn Trail to be my swan song, if it anyone think they're getting to the same point it may be better to prepare yourself mentally with a positive mindset. Everything must come to an end eventually, but the ending don't have to be on a sour note over unrealistic expectation.

Let's not lie to ourselves, ARR, HW, Stormblood quality is sorely lacking in the last 2 expansions; outside of msq. And even in MSQ past the 5.0 I'm not sure it was all that great. Just thinking about 3 dungeons per patch in ARR brings back fond memories; and how well the open world was used even if it meant just doing fates, at least they were actually used a lot.

[Valence]

If you eat the same apple for nearly 10 years, then complain why doesn't it involve into an orange or something else ... but would that be the apple's fault? If you've been eating at the same restaurant for 10 years then finally get bored of the menu ... while it maybe somewhat valid to complain but looking at it from another angle: the menu must have been good enough for you to keep coming back that long? No? And there will be new customer coming in that will find the current delightful just like you did on the the first visit.

Personally I'd find a little jarring the day my favorite pasta restaurant turns into fast food burger king... But that's beyond the point either way. I mostly made this thread to muse on the opposition I see between two different, radically opposed player expectations in gaming communities, and XIV as a whole.

[OgruMogru]

Personally I'd find a little jarring the day my favorite pasta restaurant turns into fast food burger king... But that's beyond the point either way. I mostly made this thread to muse on the opposition I see between two different, radically opposed player expectations in gaming communities, and XIV as a whole.

Forget a fast food joint, we gotta make do with a pack of lunchables now