XIV EW Job-Gameplay is Terrible... Why?

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Originally Posted by missTori

dont expect it to get better because we're gonna have like 50 jobs at some point

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At the current rate of job expansion, and using a 2-year expansion release, they'll certainly hit 50 ... in 2054.

I mostly agree with your assessment of current generation gaming. Not sure about Lord of the Rings Online, but I got stuck in the Mines of Moria and never moved on.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Honestly, I just don't like how end game is kind of becoming the model they want for everything. The 2 minute meta works for a situation where you have a strict pattern that has to be followed, which is what savage and EX fights effectively are, but it fails when dealing with situations where there is no strict pattern and someone is expected to rotate abilities, which is what people do during leveling roulette. The entire reason that many end game players seem to be horrible at doing older content, is that they are trained to use their mits specifically for keyed attacks rather than rotate them to reduce general damage.

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I dont think these statements are sound. Bursts being on a 2 minute cooldown is completely irrelevant in dungeons. Stuff is going to just drift wildly in DF dungeons anyway.

You think that the tanks who cant hit their mits are mainly end game players? How did you come to that conclusion?

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I think keeping MSQ dungeons and trials as near minimum difficulty is fair, people want to see the story and that's totally fine.

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I agree. The problem is they don't. I would have fewer issues with the game's encounter design if ilv creep didn't extend 50-60 ilvs above the minimum requirement to do the duty. More often than not, dungeon/trial/raid bosses can't even play out their more interesting mechanics because they melt before they even get to that part of their rotation. There are tons of examples of this from old content to new.

What's heartbreaking here is this dev team actually takes no issue with this.

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Just make the jobs fun again.

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This is too broad a statement. What do you mean, exactly? Right now, I am having a ton of fun leveling DRG. It is a fantastic job that I have very few gripes with (I still do have some problems with it). MNK, SAM, DNC, GNB, PLD, SCH and WHM are all jobs I enjoy playing very much. While other jobs such as RDM, SMN, NIN, WAR, and DRK are all jobs I have maxed out and do not care for at all. If jobs are so homogenized, then why do I find some enjoyable, and others I do not?

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As for perfect balance, they can't even obtain good balance with all the similarities all the jobs have now, as evidenced by them still needing to do buffs every patch to account for things they overlooked. One thing I will say though, perfect balance is actually very easy to achieve, but it requires every job to do the exact same things with different animations, and that won't be fun for anyone in the long run.

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By the nature of a role, jobs within any given role are going to have similarities. There's no getting around that. The question I asked previously is rhetorical. If jobs truly were all created equal, I would either enjoy or hate them all, and this is clearly not the case for not only myself, but just about everyone playing the game. You ask anyone what their main is, and more often than not they will answer you, or will be able to give you a list of jobs they enjoy playing the most.

It's the 2-minute meta that forces job design to conform to it, and this is the real reason why they all play/feel very similar. However, the only reason why this exists is due the existence of damage increasing raid utility in the first place. This has always been, and always will be the bane of both job and encounter design. It has always been a problem in any mmo I've played.

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Originally Posted by CelestiCer

- My personal hot-take...
PvE Combat Content comes and goes at varying excitements, boredom and difficulties. Regardless if you like Casual or High-End? you're going to have to pick a Job to do said content with. So the Job designs better be stellar. Not tolerable, not kinda okay, not spam 1 braindead button, not I duct-tape a keyboard around my forehead and faceroll another keyboard with it ( wait wha?... ) No... Amazingly Fun. But it seems sadly that Gameplay from Jobs seems heavily simplified, streamlined and neglected.

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Seriously? You think PvE is just pushing one button over and over? You need to stop exploring low level areas. Get away from Limsa Lominsa and head into the current content. I mean sure, I CAN kill things as a BLM just by pushing Fire over and over and over, but the fights will take a lot longer. If I fight enough beasts, I'll run out of mana and I'll be forced to either stop fighting and wait for mana or push another button to recover my mana. If you're just pushing one button in order to make the fights last a long time or taping the keyboard to your head (I don't even want to know why you did that), that's your own problem.

Stop playing boring classes or stop lying to everyone here about all classes being played by pushing a single button.

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Originally Posted by Bole

+1 You take your jobs everywhere, in all types of content, and can still play them in content lulls. You should have fun doing so. And players who don't do hard content should also have something to improve about their job's gameplay.

I got bored of the game while progging DSR, we got to P5 and I still didn't feel challenged as a healer. It was supposed to be the hardest fight in the game at that time. I know it gets more difficult later, but I couldn't go through with it anymore, doing the same boring rotation with barely any healing in every prog pull. I don't think infrequently released content can make up for the lack of job depth, especially when it can be hit or miss. (In comparison, I did like Living Liquid and BJ/CC).

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So are you mad that your party was correctly doing the fight or are you mad that healers actually have healing spells?

It has to be one or the other. Either you need to try healing with PUGs who are there for their first time, or you need to ask SE to nerf all of your healing spells so that they barely cope with Unavoidable Damage.

Here's something everyone here should already know- this isn't World of Warcraft. You won't find Mythic +25 here. You won't find Mythic raiding here. SE has said time and time again that this game isn't built around the best raiders in the world. That is not their focus. They don't WANT to only have the best raiders succeed while others fail. This is their game and their vision is what wins. WoW builds things around what the best can do. In fact, time and again, they've sacrificed storyline and PvE content just to toss out some more raids and that's fine- it's what they want to focus on. This is not WoW. It's an entirely different game. That won't change no matter how many "Our rotations are boring! Content is too easy!" threads you create. There is another game for you. It's over there and now owned by Microsoft who just laid off a ton of developers and fired the CEO. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Nabril

Seriously? You think PvE is just pushing one button over and over? You need to stop exploring low level areas. Get away from Limsa Lominsa and head into the current content.

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have you ever played a healer

ohhhh is it that easy? just grab some fresh players for your p5 DSR prog? why didn't any healer think of that? that's way more realistic than healer design just rewinding a couple expansions

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Originally Posted by Nabril

Get away from Limsa Lominsa and head into the current content.

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post your clears of literally anything that is savage or above if you want to talk about heading into the current content

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Originally Posted by Nabril

Seriously? You think PvE is just pushing one button over and over? You need to stop exploring low level areas. Get away from Limsa Lominsa and head into the current content. I mean sure, I CAN kill things as a BLM just by pushing Fire over and over and over, but the fights will take a lot longer. If I fight enough beasts, I'll run out of mana and I'll be forced to either stop fighting and wait for mana or push another button to recover my mana. If you're just pushing one button in order to make the fights last a long time or taping the keyboard to your head (I don't even want to know why you did that), that's your own problem.

Stop playing boring classes or stop lying to everyone here about all classes being played by pushing a single button.

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Some examples of healer action usage found during "current content" in the form of P10S, a savage fight that contains one of if not the single most intense healing check in this game: Harrowing Hell.

https://i.imgur.com/9NVemgU.png

https://i.imgur.com/tyAxASE.png

https://i.imgur.com/HJAuGZZ.png

https://i.imgur.com/2cZxz0a.png

Yes, that is every healer dedicating over 50% of their total action usage to their level 1 basic attack spell. Yes, that is highly optimized play, and no that isn't the normal experience for most healer players, but the difference between the highly optimized healer and the more realistic savage healer is not going to be very different. Having a handful more GCD healing casts throughout the fight is not suddenly a more engaging experience, and even if it was, your reward for being an exceptional healer should not look like those dogshit action usage spreads.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Some examples of healer action usage found during "current content" in the form of P10S, a savage fight that contains one of if not the single most intense healing check in this game: Harrowing Hell.

https://i.imgur.com/9NVemgU.png

https://i.imgur.com/tyAxASE.png

https://i.imgur.com/HJAuGZZ.png

https://i.imgur.com/2cZxz0a.png

Yes, that is every healer dedicating over 50% of their total action usage to their level 1 basic attack spell. Yes, that is highly optimized play, and no that isn't the normal experience for most healer players, but the difference between the highly optimized healer and the more realistic savage healer is not going to be very different. Having a handful more GCD healing casts throughout the fight is not suddenly a more engaging experience, and even if it was, your reward for being an exceptional healer should not look like those dogshit action usage spreads.

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Don't even need close to optimized gameplay to hit that ceiling. Even with having to throw out extra healing for my chaos gremlin static on the regular, there's still about 45% of all casts spend on Broil/Dosis.