Which Job, in your opinion, has the biggest identity issue?

Bard for sure. Half its kit feels redundant or meaningless and its class fantasy flew out the window a long time ago.

Its dots don't even serve a purpose anymore besides some DPS that you don't even notice unless you're logging that sort of thing. In the past, they'd affect how often your songs could proc, so there was a real gameplay enhancing element to using them. Nowadays you just use them for the empty feeling contribution of doing slightly more dps. The way they are now, the dots might as well be removed entirely and simply slip that potency into other skills to make up for it because they feel totally meaningless. And why are there two, but they can both be replenished by Iron Jaws? Why not make Iron Jaws the dot apply button and the replenisher? Like, who even cares at this point. And it's got Sidewinder, which you literally just press when it's up and it does damage and that's it. What a fun class!

Meanwhile, the actual musical elements are like, you tap a button and your allies get a foodbuff basically. And on your end, the "song" manifests as like... once every 3 seconds, you might get a proc that lets you press an additional button (if you're even lucky; one of those songs doesn't even do that, and if you're going on the meta, your funnest song is the one you cut short LOL). This job legit feels disjointed and boring as hell; the only reason I play it is for the aesthetic. Buffing your team should feel good. There should be some good gameplay feeling from being buffed, like you should be able to see it or feel it in your rotation. It shouldn't just be a thing you notice when you check some third party number cruncher later. It's seriously so shitty from the "does this even feel good to play" perspective.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

Gunbreaker 100%. It's the tank that's also there, the one without an identity.

Nobody needs me to explain what a Paladin is, because it's an archetypes that is well-established even outside the FF series. It's a knight that uses the power of light to protect. Generally leaning towards "lawful good", which the job narrative recognizes and sliiightly subverts.
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So what does it mean to be a Gunbreaker? I feel like the game has never told me. It's given me the history of Gunbreaker origin, how they fought in a war for a specific purpose, and that's neat, but that's a history, not an identity. If I pick up a Gunblade and put on Dante's coat, I'm not fighting for Bozja. So what does it mean for me to be a Gunbreaker now? As far as I can tell, it just means being a person with a gun that can shoot bullets, and trying to do a protect, but without any substance. And that's disappointing. It's an aesthetic with no soul.

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First Paladin's in FFXIV have no connection with 'light', that is things associated with Paladin from outside the game and even most of the FF franchise. All Paladin's are in FFXIV are the Royal Knights that protect the Sultana, nothing more, nothing less. This is why Paladins typically cannot leave Ul'dah and travel as freely as out WoL does. FFXIV just adds the light and magic attacks to make it more inline with what people expect of a Paladin from outside sources, not because of any lore reason from ingame.

However, to then continue onto Gunbreaker, Gunbreakers are the main force behind destroying the enemies frontline and ranged support, going in quickly with their aetheric shields primed from the cartridges in their Gunblade. This is why they have the defensive capabilities they do, to better break through and why they attack quickly, as it is easier to disrupt the front line and make it easier for other units to form a more co-ordinated assault. They are also typically the ones designated as the main protectors of the Queen, the same way Paladin's are the ones protecting the Sultana. So, there is your identity, someone who breaks through enemy lines and quickly destabilises it.

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Originally Posted by OgruMogru

they should rework it to work like a rhythm game and your rotation needs to be hit in time

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"Dance Dance Revolution" - Lv 92 skill: Execute the commands in time to do damage with a potency of 5000 on all enemies within range, gain a 5% dmg buff. If you fail you suffer "stone" for 12 seconds

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Originally Posted by BRVV

"Dance Dance Revolution" - Lv 92 skill: Execute the commands in time to do damage with a potency of 5000 on all enemies within range, gain a 5% dmg buff. If you fail you suffer "stone" for 12 seconds

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hahaha I love this!

The sequence of buttons you have to press could either be synced up to the bgm like Vib Ribbon or vary based on what actions your dance partner takes.

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Originally Posted by Connor

FFXIV’s version of Bard completely misses the mark relative to any other ff, and it’s the only classic ff job to get that kind of treatment.

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I would say there's one other classic FF job that gets that treatment: Rogue, which gets entirely replaced by Ninja halfway into ARR.

I agree RDM needs a buff, what i do not agree with is tearing another class down to get a buff to a personal favorite class. RDM is a unique class and has its own style which is fun to play. I like that I have a rez if needed. Can we please stop the class competition and realize there is always room for improvements on all classes. But the topic of this thread is about identity and I truly believe Bard has that issue more so then many other dps classes.

Join me in the black pill, brothers. The new smn, despite the reasons for its popularity boiling down to "it lets us bypass needing a caster dps", will be seen as a success and all future casters will follow its model. Maybe not blm, we'll see though.

A lot of classes can fit here thanks to pruning.

I'm going with DRK, BRD, MCH.

DRK I don't believe HAS an identity at this point. Or at least, you can't convince me it has one.

BRD and MCH suffer from the same problem: they feel less like their titles and more of a glorified ranger/gunner (respectively) with songs and "gadgets" (read: moar guns) tacked on.

If you want to look at classes that I feel have identity with both playstyles and feel may I point you to the PvP incarnations of the classes?

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

This sounds like it should be how DRK is described, I think something has gone wrong with design here.

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The Dev's blatant favortism of WAR, and the WAR playerbase's endless screeching basically lead to it being the omni-job of all content and the tank thats the best at literally everything, while having access to literally everything.
If it was actually designed like WAR players want to avoid homogenization we would have to remove a looot of skills from WAR to even the playing field.

Enhanced Equilibrium gave WAR a heal over time effect, when that was previously GNB's thing with Aurora
Hell you could argue Equilibrium is just Clemeancy except good because its a no cost ogcd
The less we say about PLD being the holy magic tank, losing in party healing to WAR's Nascent and Shake it Off + Overtime, the better
Bloodwhetting got a personal shield on it, when that was previously DRK's thing with TBN
DRK was the first tank to get a gap closer, yet now WAR is the one with 3 (debatably 4) gap closers compared to DRK's 2 and completely lackluster trait in Enhanced Unmend.

Its less of a "lets not homogenize the tanks" thing and more of a "WAR should literally be the best tank at basically everything" problem.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

All Paladin's are in FFXIV are the Royal Knights that protect the Sultana, nothing more, nothing less.

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You're talking about the Sultansworn, which is a specific subset of Paladins. In addition to them, there are also so-called "free Paladins" who don't answer to the Sultana, which is what the Warrior of Light is, as well as Solkzagyl.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

First Paladin's in FFXIV have no connection with 'light', that is things associated with Paladin from outside the game and even most of the FF franchise.

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I didn't say they had a special connection with the light, just that they use it. And they clearly do, with their numerous attacks with the name Holy in them that do shiny light stuff.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

FFXIV just adds the light and magic attacks to make it more inline with what people expect of a Paladin from outside sources, not because of any lore reason from ingame.

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With respect, I don't understand what point you're trying to make? That's the benefit of using a pre-existing archetype: you don't have to explain every last detail, because people already get it. You say the word "Paladin", I already know what you mean, that's an idea that's been around for hundreds of years and in the fantasy genre for dozens. You don't get that same pass when you make up an entirely new class that nobody has ever seen before. You say the word "Gunbreaker", well, now you have some explaining to do because that's never been done before.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

So, there is your identity, someone who breaks through enemy lines and quickly destabilises it.

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Not only does that sound like a wet napkin of an identity, but you've just described something that the player never does as a Gunbreaker, at least not more than any other tank, and in my opinion not more than any healer either.