Do people not care enough or does the game do a bad job at teaching?

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Originally Posted by Celine_Aurora

Our point is not that it's impossible to figure out these things, you can... if you want. The point of this thread is that you'd never need to, because if you are happy being a gigacasual that does the MSQ and then roulettes for 8 months, there is no failure state for severely underplaying your class. No songs BRD, healer partner no tech step DNC, and freecure fishers all get carried easily through any trial and dungeon in the MSQ. It's 100% on the game for never giving them the stimulus to at least read their damn tooltips - by forcing failure upon them.

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The failure is forced on them when and if they attempt harder content. A gigacasual hops into EX and all of a sudden finds themselves on a completely different playground, and this still isn't anywhere close to the game's most difficult content. When you boil down posts such as yours, it is very easy to discern that you want more difficult content to be forced onto the casuals. What happens then is you will really have a problem on your hands because the content you can now sleep through can't be cleared.

Players who want to learn will do so on their own accord. And the players that want to learn typically want to attempt more difficult content. Even for something like EX, the concepts behind things like Crit/DH and optimization of skills still aren't that important because in order to clear content at this level, what is more important is group coordination and understanding mechanics along with not failing them. Players who want to go above and beyond will make the effort to understand PvE inside and out.

For the casuals, the game only needs the players to understand how the game is played. Things like MSQ progression, job roles, light parties require 4 players comprised of tank, healer, and 2 DPS. Full parties are double of each; some duties require a min ilevel, hotbar/crossbar/hotkey allocation, abilities/spells/weapon skills, etc. There are tooltips for nearly everything, and the menu also has a help log. Whether or not a casual players actually looks at it is irrelevant. These tools are still available to them nonetheless. Content lower than EX and the very occasional NM duty where the devs will ramp up the difficulty a bit shouldn't matter much to you. If you want more challenging content where players are required to know more and try harder, I suggest sticking to more difficult duties.

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Originally Posted by Amenara

SE shows no will or inclination to making the game better for lower level players or helping them learn the absolute basics of the game.

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It's fine to want more but as far as mechanics this isn't true at all anymore. The revamps of MSQ dungeons and solo instances for Duty Support are doing a lot for introducing basics. For instance, I was just in Keeper and you know what Middy has now? An Akh Morn stack attack.

And the RPR quest has an NPC who gives you tips on how to use your skills together. Maybe we could see that integrated in the early game at some point. But at least they are thinking about and considering these ideas and what the game to do to help.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

The game teaches you enough. Good players didn't play a different game to learn this game. They played this one.

It's 100% on the bad player. No one should be making excuses for stupid, lazy, self centered people who choose to waste other people's time.

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This is where i always loved the Japanese mentality towards the game.

You put your best effort in, or you are letting everyone else down.
Nobody over there wants to be the weak link, because the weak link gets removed.

People that do not want to learn to play, should be subject to only playing with duty support.

The ToS actually has a clause that refers to 'lethargic players' and it is a violation of the ToS to not play to the best of your abilities.
https://i.postimg.cc/wvd83X07/image-...-163933732.png

So if you ever see that 'Ultimate Legend' player spamming regen and nothing else, Report them.
If you ever see that healer not doing DPS, Report them.
If you see a tank refusing to use mits, Report them.

It is a bannable offence to be lazy.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

You can see how often DoTs tick if you watch the flytext damage happening on the target, or apply a heal regen to yourself. For weaving, oGCDs are distinguished by the word "Ability" and GCDs by "Spell" or "Weaponskill" and don't show as being unusable after pressing a GCD. Knowing what Crit and DH do in detail isn't particularly necessary because you can just stack it based on the description alone and assume it increases damage.

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None of that solves the issue of the game trying it's best to obfuscate information.

How much % crit is 2250? What is my critical damage modifier?
How much % damage does Determination give me? How much does Tenacity give me and how much mitigation?
How much extra damage does Direct Hit actually give me and what is the % proc chance on it?

The game wants you to decide what to prioritize between all these different stats but can't even be bothered to give you concrete information on what they do, opting instead to use vague descriptions that tell you absolutely nothing.


You say it doesn't matter because they all increase your damage somehow, but those stats aren't all equal and that should be made clear to the player.
Whether they can be bothered to use that information is up to the individual, but the game should absolutely give you enough concrete information to make an educated decision yourself, without having to look it up on third party sites.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

So if you ever see that 'Ultimate Legend' player spamming regen and nothing else, Report them.
If you ever see that healer not doing DPS, Report them.
If you see a tank refusing to use mits, Report them.

It is a bannable offence to be lazy.

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You are going to want to be able to prove ill intent or you are just going to get on the bad side of GMs if you make too many reports based on vibes.
GMs are not going to start giving out punishments for just playing the game "badly".

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Originally Posted by Ayche

You are going to want to be able to prove ill intent or you are just going to get on the bad side of GMs if you make too many reports based on vibes.
GMs are not going to start giving out punishments for just playing the game "badly".

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they have a cheat report button now. so i imagine someone would review that type of report of someone breaking that particular ToS that other perosn pointed out here.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

Most people just don't care. Personal opinion, but I think the majority of players are capable of performing well in most duties in this game minus ex+. They simply choose not to.

The game does a very thorough job of explaining things to people. In fact it's so thorough that I actually find tutorials like the RPR/SGE ones slow and boring.

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I actually fit this in a way. My performance in any game is dependent on what the game expects of me in order to win.

A game can have all these advanced moves that could be really powerful but if I can finish the game without them, that's what I will most likely do.

In a multi-player game like this on however, I personally try to have a good performance level all the time no matter what the situation.

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

"Do people not care enough or does the game do a bad job at teaching?"

Neither, job design is terrible....& that translates to the people who are playing them.

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If you are not pressing your actions that's not a job design issue, that's a you issue

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Originally Posted by Gemina

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While I mostly agree with your points, I'm not a fan of the idea that the gigacasuals should be encouraged to sleep through and never learn through main quest duties only to hit a wall running when they queue their first EX. Personally I think this exacerbates the myth there's this great gulf between "casuals" and "hardcore" players instead of encouraging growth and a mutual enjoyement of the hobby.

I disagree that bringing the speedbumps up a bit in casual content would make it unclearable by casuals. It would make them try a little harder during the MSQ, sure. But making it by design content you can sleep through as long as you understand that the tank gets aggro, actions come in 1-2-3 sets and you dodge telegraphs is far too low as an entry barrier.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

This is where i always loved the Japanese mentality towards the game.

You put your best effort in, or you are letting everyone else down.
Nobody over there wants to be the weak link, because the weak link gets removed.

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I find this pretty ironic because the nature of the MS duties now discourages this mentality, and instead encourages no one being made to be "the weak link" because the group as a whole is guaranteed a clear, and all the impact a bad player has is to make it take just a bit longer. Or to put it another way, if it's true Japanese mentality is so eager to weed out weak links, the game discourages them from spotting one.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

So if you ever see that 'Ultimate Legend' player spamming regen and nothing else, Report them.
If you ever see that healer not doing DPS, Report them.
If you see a tank refusing to use mits, Report them.

It is a bannable offence to be lazy.

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Thats it! You have a VulnStack - you banned!