Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

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Originally Posted by Conadrium

While mechanics ARE king, that’s not the full story. Lower dps requires higher performance to beat enrage and the simple fact is, if you can’t do your rotation then you’re not good enough to do mechanics. Besides if someone’s dps is bad enough it can make it harder for everyone else. When you NEED a dps LB3 to beat enrage then you can’t tank LB Cachexia 2 or healer LB3 a bad mess up.

Mechanics you can ignore or mess up become wipes with bad dps.

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While I get what you're saying and its kinda true... every screwed a run I've had has been because of people (myself included) taking mechanics to the face, not because the DPS couldnt DPS enough.

There are very few enrages that require the high levels of optimisation parsing is intended for.

The question high end groups need answering is how well players pick up and learn mechanics. Once a group has mechanics down and arent making too many mistakes with those you're probably clearing.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Somebody has never done week 1 savage before XD

People can be as mechanically good as they want, but lack the DPS required to clear a savage tier on release because they don't know how to maximize their job's DPS output.

Wiping to Enrage with 0 deaths because somebody missed a few GCDS throughout a fight, or the healer deciding that DPS is for the DPS jobs.

The worst thing is, you tell them they need to improve and immediately you are the toxic one, regardless of how correct you are.

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No, but serious world first and week 1 teams make up so little of the playerbase that it doesnt matter. If credible world first teams want to share parses privately to put together what is essentially a top level e-sports team then thats something they can already do without introducing toxicity to the rest of the game.

I dont actually have an issue with parsing in that environment. If you told me that you were going for a week 1 clear and wanted to scruitinise my parse then I'd totally get that. Heck, I'd expect it because I'd be trying to join a competitive team.

The problem is that if parsers were introduced to XIV or open parsing allowed, then parse checks would end up infecting the entire game. You'd have people parsing the ARR Ex's, and the harder old Ex's like Sephirot and Thordan, or some of Eden S tier would be a lock out without parse checks.

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Originally Posted by Tiramu

The problem is that if parsers were introduced to XIV or open parsing allowed, then parse checks would end up infecting the entire game. You'd have people parsing the ARR Ex's, and the harder old Ex's like Sephirot and Thordan, or some of Eden S tier would be a lock out without parse checks.

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Afaik parse checks are already infecting large swathes of the game. Even self-proclaimed "super casual" statics are using 3rd party software, and talking to its members about improving their parses. The first and only time I tried my hand at EXes I joined a self-proclaimed "chill and informal friend group static that plays just for fun" and after we did the trials, the static leader began throwing links to parses at me and talking about how my oGCD usage could be improved.
They didn't mean anything bad by it, and just tried to help, but how straight up matter-of-factly they went about the whole business just reaffirmed the fact that pretty much everyone and their mums who do this content are parsing, and are making a big deal out of said parsing.

Introducing it as a built-in in-game feature will achieve exactly one thing imo: people who would otherwise not know anything about this stuff will have an excuse to start excluding and hating on people because they play a job that isn't parsing well.

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Originally Posted by Kansene

Afaik parse checks are already infecting large swathes of the game. Even self-proclaimed "super casual" statics are using 3rd party software, and talking to its members about improving their parses. The first and only time I tried my hand at EXes I joined a self-proclaimed "chill and informal friend group static that plays just for fun" and after we did the trials, the static leader began throwing links to parses at me and talking about how my oGCD usage could be improved.
They didn't mean anything bad by it, and just tried to help, but how straight up matter-of-factly they went about the whole business just reaffirmed the fact that pretty much everyone and their mums who do this content are parsing, and are making a big deal out of said parsing.

Introducing it as a built-in in-game feature will achieve exactly one thing imo: people who would otherwise not know anything about this stuff will have an excuse to start excluding and hating on people because they play a job that isn't parsing well.

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Geeze, stories like this is why i'm happier spending my limited game time in Eureka over chasing the dragon that is savage tier. lol
I do miss the old HW prog days but seeing what raiding has become really makes me feel like I dodged a bullet when I became a super casual when I returned.

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Originally Posted by Kansene

Afaik parse checks are already infecting large swathes of the game. Even self-proclaimed "super casual" statics are using 3rd party software, and talking to its members about improving their parses. The first and only time I tried my hand at EXes I joined a self-proclaimed "chill and informal friend group static that plays just for fun" and after we did the trials, the static leader began throwing links to parses at me and talking about how my oGCD usage could be improved.
They didn't mean anything bad by it, and just tried to help, but how straight up matter-of-factly they went about the whole business just reaffirmed the fact that pretty much everyone and their mums who do this content are parsing, and are making a big deal out of said parsing.

Introducing it as a built-in in-game feature will achieve exactly one thing imo: people who would otherwise not know anything about this stuff will have an excuse to start excluding and hating on people because they play a job that isn't parsing well.

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You mean excluding people that play poorly. Get it right

I see so many people here always pin the blame on others rather than thinking about criticizing themselves. Its too easy to say "well I know Im not a bad player, we mustve wiped because somebody else did".

Adding meters is just gonna be yet another avenue to bully other players. Heck weve already seen this happen with certain PF barring good machinist players.....on P5S!! They really are that obsessed about damage numbers

This topic always goes the same way.

"Dps meters will create toxicity!"
"But toxic behavior is against ToS?"
"People will bully others!"
"But they can't, it's against ToS..."
"Statics will exclude everyone!"
"But everyone who raids uses fflogs anyway, lots of causal statics exist and it's been fine?"
"Toxicity!"
"But...?"
"Toxicity!!!!"

There's no argument here and logic has been presented a million times. The simple fact is underperforming players don't want their performance to be visible. Even if no one bullies them, they hate that others are doing better or being presented with proof they're holding a group back by not trying or caring. So they want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend numbers don't exist. And that's the environment SE wants to foster, because in their eyes those players are potential customers and they can just push the better players to carry them.

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Originally Posted by Kansene

Afaik parse checks are already infecting large swathes of the game. Even self-proclaimed "super casual" statics are using 3rd party software, and talking to its members about improving their parses. The first and only time I tried my hand at EXes I joined a self-proclaimed "chill and informal friend group static that plays just for fun" and after we did the trials, the static leader began throwing links to parses at me and talking about how my oGCD usage could be improved.
They didn't mean anything bad by it, and just tried to help, but how straight up matter-of-factly they went about the whole business just reaffirmed the fact that pretty much everyone and their mums who do this content are parsing, and are making a big deal out of said parsing.

Introducing it as a built-in in-game feature will achieve exactly one thing imo: people who would otherwise not know anything about this stuff will have an excuse to start excluding and hating on people because they play a job that isn't parsing well.

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They can but I think it can depend on regions/DC's. I've had good and bad experiences with that in European DC's.

One time a more experienced player asked the group if they wanted some informed tips, wink wink, nudge nudge. It was a good group, they asked first, and gave out good advice without singling anyone out. That was fine and I got some helpful and informative advice on maintaining BLM uptime through mechanics.

Another time it was utterly inappropriate and toxic. Someone in my FC wanted a mount so we put together a few people from the FC and put a PF up. It was an unsynced casual mount run.

After a few runs one guy started going on performance and how some of us were holding him back. He was a lv90 in endgame raid gear lambasting people more than 10 levels below him in MSQ gear. Even after it was pointed out he didnt get it.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I forget comms even exist most of the time, honestly.

If any of you get me in a party, don't comm me. I already have the mount, I don't need the ego-stroking.

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Well now I gotta World Visit you, join your party, finish whatever we do, and give you a comm out of spite.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

The simple fact is underperforming players don't want their performance to be visible. Even if no one bullies them, they hate that others are doing better or being presented with proof they're holding a group back by not trying or caring. So they want to stick their fingers in their ears and pretend numbers don't exist.

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You're phrasing this as if this comical strawman is the only kind of player who's against this kind of stuff, which is simply not the case. Other examples include players who do try and do care but get shot down because they're not already playing nigh-perfectly, and players who don't even have any interest in the higher end stuff being thrown shade on within casual content. I found it to be an entirely unwelcome thing to be pulled aside and having every minutia of my performance scrutinized over being 2 sec late to press Fleche on my first ever EX (which was also outdated content that we overgeared at the time) for sure.

These attitudes exist elsewhere where such things are part of the game (including people using ToS-breaking software WITHIN FFXIV itself) and isn't going to magically just not happen because FFXIV is some magical group-hug game where everyone is suddenly a kindhearted teletubby.
People may be prevented from outright flaming and bullying people thanks to Squeenix actually monitoring such things, but you can be dang sure there will be passive-aggressive snark all over the place because "someone is trolling by playing MCH", a plethora of parties urging certain jobs to simply not apply, and people who will make use of the first possible opportunity to avoid playing with people who were unfortunate enough not to play the top-parsing jobs in the game.
These people don't exist, you say? Of course they do, just as surely as the "TOXICITY" example you typed up there.

I'm not going to refute that there certainly is a crowd of people who go "REEE CARRY ME" but please don't grab the broadest brush you can find and use it to paint over everyone who expresses concerns over this.