Add iLevel restrictions to Alliance Roulette

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

SE could instead make roulettes enjoyable. Having to put up with content you don't find fun isn't a selling point and isn't something to defend.

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You missed the point...

Roulettes can be enjoyable or unenjoyable, but regardless, you won't always get to do the content that you want to do because the purpose of roulettes is to help fill in queues.

Roulettes give you rewards because you're filling in necessary slots, helping other players get into duties. When you do roulettes with a full party of friends or manipulate the roulette with your gear, you cheat a system that's supposed to benefit the community. It's a system set up so that you help players and in return you get rewards. It's a two way street. If you're not willing to help out with content that you've unlocked then you shouldn't join the roulette, not the other way around.

I don't know how many times we have to reiterate this.

Besides that, how exactly do you want to change roulettes to be enjoyable when as you've already mentioned, enjoyment and fun is subjective(not to mention that roulettes consist of a variety of duties within each queue and you'd have to apply that change to all of them)?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

If you believe that would be the eventual end result, then this is a terrible solution regardless.

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Why is it a terrible solution?

People are currently abusing the system, so therefore, why should the system itself continue to exist?

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

People are currently abusing the system, so therefore, why should the system itself continue to exist?

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Yes, people abuse the system. That's been established and there's no disputing it, but it's just part of many reasons that CT will come up in roulette. That's why the system should continue to exist. The legit reasons outweigh the illegitimate.

There's no good / clear alternative that will address all of the situations. SE doesn't want to force anyone down a particular path. They do encourage unlocking the other raids. Upping the challenge is out because it already has enough going on and it's also the intro to the alliance format.

Some folks complain about the cheese and freely admit to bailing as soon as they land in CT. Those people are no better than the ones cheesing because you're forcing another person to fill that spot. How is that fair? I'd say it's even worse because people don't check off 'party in progress' to fill in for babies, but that's what happens.

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Originally Posted by NekoMataMata

You missed the point...

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I disagree, if it seems that way I think it's because you're not considering what's beyond the status quo.

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Roulettes can be enjoyable or unenjoyable, but regardless, you won't always get to do the content that you want to do because the purpose of roulettes is to help fill in queues.

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FF14 is a video game, so if something is unenjoyable, I think it's fair to say that it might be a fault.

Roulettes are meant to help fill queues, we can agree on that. Being dull isn't part of that requirement though. Unless roulettes could only function as they are now, and there is no possible alternative, then do we have to suffer through a roulette system that isn't fun? Do you believe in constructive criticism? Do you believe that developers can make mistakes or that they should be take feedback from the community? It's very strange that requests to improve the game are looked down upon so heavily.

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Roulettes give you rewards because you're filling in necessary slots, helping other players get into duties. When you do roulettes with a full party of friends or manipulate the roulette with your gear, you cheat a system that's supposed to benefit the community. It's a system set up so that you help players and in return you get rewards. It's a two way street. If you're not willing to help out with content that you've unlocked then you shouldn't join the roulette, not the other way around.

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Following the rules isn't cheating the system. Premade parties are perfectly OK. If the game went out of its way to prevent you from playing with friends, what value would it even have? You can argue against influencing the roulette with gear since it's probably unintentional that max level players can force low level duties, although there are reasons for the roulette to take gear into account. Just because you're level 60 doesn't mean that you have level 60 gear or can even unlock level 60 content.

Anyway, this is all besides the point. You're unintentionally or not defending a poorly thought out system because you're not looking for alternatives. Roulettes being boring does not help them achieve their goal. It probably does the opposite as it makes people not want to queue for them. What would you rather queue for; an expert roulette with the same 2 never changing dungeons that are practically identical in all but aesthetic that you've played 500 times each or an expert roulette with 5 dynamic dungeons that change a bit each time and have some challenge to them? Well that's a subjective I guess, but I know for a fact quite a few people, myself included, would prefer the latter. I'd queue probably queue for it even if I had already received my daily reward.

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I don't know how many times we have to reiterate this.

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It doesn't matter how many times it's repeated. It's just not a good argument. Why do roulettes need to be boring to fulfill their purpose?

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Besides that, how exactly do you want to change roulettes to be enjoyable when as you've already mentioned, enjoyment and fun is subjective(not to mention that roulettes consist of a variety of duties within each queue and you'd have to apply that change to all of them)?

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That's the easy part. Give people choice. Since it's subjective, let people find their own fun. The people that want to login, get XP, and log out can queue for CT. I'll queue for something that doesn't have me reaching for the abandon duty button or more realistically avoiding the roulette (defeating its purpose) completely.

The best solution is just to lower the ilvl sync cap so that the CT raids actually have mechanics again. The second boss of ST hasn't seen mechanics since WoD released and it has only gotten worse over time. Once the CT series is on the same level as the rest of the raids (minus Void Ark because that's too easy too) then there is no reason to ilvl cheese it. It will still op more often than the others, but the ilvl cheese won't contribute to it.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

I disagree, if it seems that way I think it's because you're not considering what's beyond the status quo.


FF14 is a video game, so if something is unenjoyable, I think it's fair to say that it might be a fault.

Roulettes are meant to help fill queues, we can agree on that. Being dull isn't part of that requirement though. Unless roulettes could only function as they are now, and there is no possible alternative, then do we have to suffer through a roulette system that isn't fun? Do you believe in constructive criticism? Do you believe that developers can make mistakes or that they should be take feedback from the community? It's very strange that requests to improve the game are looked down upon so heavily.

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I find roulettes fun and interesting. Maybe you should check out the other thread on this topic.

You're entitled to feel one way or another, but that doesn't mean someone else is at fault for that feeling. Some people don't like gathering or crafting. That doesn't mean the system is poorly designed.

I like pineapple on pizza. Other people don't. That doesn't mean it's a horrible idea and it should never be done.

If you feel negatively about something, maybe you need to just stop doing it.

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That's the easy part. Give people choice. Since it's subjective, let people find their own fun.

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The choice is there. You choose to ignore it. All these arguments and discussions over a little bit of xp and tomes rewarded from a roulette.... Why? Why is this the hill people want to die on? There are certainly more pressing issues with the game that could use attention.

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Originally Posted by BubblyBoar

The best solution is just to lower the ilvl sync cap so that the CT raids actually have mechanics again. The second boss of ST hasn't seen mechanics since WoD released and it has only gotten worse over time. Once the CT series is on the same level as the rest of the raids (minus Void Ark because that's too easy too) then there is no reason to ilvl cheese it. It will still op more often than the others, but the ilvl cheese won't contribute to it.

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Level sync can only do so much. Level 50 has been reduced to being almost as simple as level 15 at this point. You can't recreate the original experience. If instead of level sync we had stat sync so we could do run CT with level 90 skills at level 50 damage and HP, maybe that would work.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I find roulettes fun and interesting.

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I'm glad to hear it, you should be onboard with my idea since it's designed to change nothing for people like you.

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Maybe you should check out the other thread on this topic.

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It doesn't seem relevant.

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You're entitled to feel one way or another, but that doesn't mean someone else is at fault for that feeling. Some people don't like gathering or crafting. That doesn't mean the system is poorly designed.

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The conversion your quoting was discussing if roulettes should offer an entertaining experience. The proper analogy isn't a crafting system that only some people like, it's a crafting system that no one likes. If I were to use an argument similar to "roulettes can be boring for everyone because they fill queues" it would be no different than saying "crafting can be boring for everyone because it contributes to the economy". When you spell it out, it doesn't sound very good.

This is all besides the point again because, as I said the last time we discussed this:

"Also, why does it even matter? If a new idea is not making things worse for anyone, but better for me, who is losing out? No one."
If you have a problem with the idea, let's hear it. If you don't, then it doesn't seem like there is a problem.

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I like pineapple on pizza. Other people don't. That doesn't mean it's a horrible idea and it should never be done.

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And that's why reasonable people don't make arguments like this.

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If you feel negatively about something, maybe you need to just stop doing it.

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Would that apply to your participation in this thread? No, you seem to care about the subject, so you're putting in your opinion to defend your stance. You should expect the same from other people. If players care about the game, they will suggest improvements.

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There are certainly more pressing issues with the game that could use attention.

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Maybe then, this is near the top of the list. The game is built on roulettes. You're expected as a player to spend a considerable amount of time in roulettes. If roulettes are supposed to be a more or less everyday experience, they should absolutely contribute to every player's enjoyment. That's just how games work.

Skipping a lot because you're being obtuse.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

Maybe then, this is near the top of the list. The game is built on roulettes. You're expected as a player to spend a considerable amount of time in roulettes. If roulettes are supposed to be a more or less everyday experience, they should absolutely contribute to every player's enjoyment. That's just how games work.

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The game is built on a story and different modes of play. Roulettes are icing on the cake. You're expected to play the game to your level of enjoyment, not a predetermined amount of time or duties. You're given a wide range of activities to choose from because you can't please everyone all the time.

If you're never going to answer the question of what it is you need so badly from this roulette that you can't get from anywhere else, then the conversation is pretty much done. You're looking to make a change where it's not really needed or will have a negative impact on others. Selfish ideas like this will not make it to discussion by the devs.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

Level sync can only do so much. .

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They can do a lot more than they have.

Because right now the ilvl sync for CT is:

LoTA: Min ilvl 50, ilvl sync 130 (Almost 3 times the minimum)
ST: Min ilvl 70, ilvl sync 130 (almost twice the minimum)
WoD: Min ilvl 90, ilvl sync 130 (almost 50% more than the minimum)

No ilvl sync should be more than ideally 10 ilvls more than the rewards for said content. At most LOTA should have an ilvl 70 max (ST's minimum), ST should have an ilvl max of 90 (WOD's minimum)

LoTA at ilvl sync of 60 would be completely different than it is right now.

its 135 isnt it?

but i agree. ilvl sync, more rewards for longer raids und preventing cheesing.... a lot to do to make a-raid roulette better

Hello again, this topic. It’s been a while, I thought you had forgotten about us.

I’ll help reunite you with your family:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-cheese-people
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-the-CT-24-man
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ower-has-to-go
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...d-use-a-rework

…and these are just in like..the last month or two.

@OP, I wish they actually would address this in an official way, either a “it’s working as intended” or “yeah that’s not cool”. I don’t care which way at this point, but point blank, I would never run those roulettes again if they required me to gear up for a job I’m never going to play beyond being competionist.

As is, I level a job to 50, get what I need to do CT and level it passively on alliance raid, beast tribes and pvp. I never need better gear, and I will never use those jobs again after leveling. I’m not interested in doing anything else with that job and, were I required to do otherwise I’d just stop doing the raid roulette entirely, which (assuming others are like me) would only make less people doing the content entirely, which wouldn’t really change wait times that much…it just makes CT take longer to get as well.