Can we get a 'Role Sprout' icon?

We can use the shoshinsha mark. It's recognizeable as a symbol for people learning how to drive in Japan, and it'd stand out enough in the West to be noticeable.

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.3085...,f8f8f8.u5.jpg

Here's hoping people won't think this is a Paladin Shield tho |D

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

We can use the shoshinsha mark. It's recognizeable as a symbol for people learning how to drive in Japan, and it'd stand out enough in the West to be noticeable.

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The Wakaba mark is the current sprout, so it's not ideal. We don't want to mark role newbs with that.

The Kōreisha mark - which could be displayed as a tilted 4 leaf clover - is better suited, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

I wish they'd do this. I've got WHM at 50 but haven't played it since ARR and am too nervous to be tossed into something I'm not ready for that I won't touch it. My only other option is directly queuing for all the dungeons in increasing level order to get used to new skills incrementally. That's not exactly appealing.

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I don't think WHM at 50 has that many spells now. The actual spells seem to roll in after this. I don't know if this has changed from before?

In Level 50 MSQ, I can only seem to recall using the following with any great frequency:

1. Cure II
2. Medica I
3. Medica II
4. Regen

Plus the 3 DPS spells.

On Ultima Weapon, I do have to drop a Lucid Dreaming to regain mana if the group is fairly new, but nothing too crazy. That fight is incredibly long (both halves), and tough keeping up Mana when people fail to avoid the AOEs (which is fine, I did the same when I was new).

You should be fine at level 50 WHM as the toolkit is incredibly limited.

Most of the time, you can just drop a regen on the tank and then DPS away. You may have to throw in a Cure II every so often, and then a Medica II and Medica I on a boss.

And yeah, gaining the skills incrementally isn't appealing at all. For the first half of ARR dungeons, you have a single target cure, an AOE heal, a DPS spell and a DOT. It isn't until level 35 you get anything else worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

It's only a Crutch if you assume the vast majority of players will use it as a crutch to do so. But that isn't really the case. The mi ority that will, will be called out on it, and reported.

If anything SE/CBUIII needs to improve in-game resources to allow players of any level to tran themselves. <like an eternal SSS/Burning Field or what's it called that unlocks updates after the next patch/expac. but for different levels of content, and healing>

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The reason I say it's a crutch is because experienced players tend to act like reading the tooltips will teach a player how to play their role to a competent degree. They don't and a lot of the issues players have are baked into the games design.

For example, just off the top of my head:

- Do not teach a tank to mitigate or pull

- That red skills can be interrupted and yellow skills cannot; despite it being completely unintuitive.

- Do not teach healers which debuffs can and cannot be cleansed

- Do not teach you the optimal pre-pull buff order, or when you should ideally use your buffs.

- Do not teach healers which healing spells they should be using, and in some cases encourage them into bad habits.

- Ninjas mundra combos are buried away in the Actions and Skills panel

- For some weird reason LB is not defaulted onto the hot bar like other important skills

- The LB tooltip gives a vague description for each role

- They give a vague indicator for rotations, but there isn't a clear explanation. Hell, we just use certain rotations because in Icy Veins and Wesk Alber we trust.

- Tooltips do not teach battle mechanics, we tend to learn those through trial and error, being told, or watching guides. Nobody can be good at their job until they have the mechanics for individual battles down, and at times mechanics can be so abstract there is no wonder people struggle with them.

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we need better teaching resources.

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^ This is the problem, the game does a lacklustre job of teaching new players how to play the game. The job quests should actively be teaching players the fundamentals of their jobs, what their rotations should look like, tiered skills should upgrade and downgrade based on level/level cap, and teach the kind of mechanics that players are going to encounter in the content ahead.

Furthermore, I think the speed in jobs can level is a problem. I've discussed before how I played SMN to about around lv60, unlocked Scholar and rolled into around lv60 content... it made learning Scholar much harder than it needed to be.

When I unlocked PLD I went from Lv16 to 52 in 7 dungeons. That is nowhere near enough time for someone who has never tanked before to learn how to tank. This is on a pref. server, but still.

It's here where a job specific sprout icon could come in useful, especially if it grew based on how much content they'd have completed on that job.

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

Others have me convinced after seeing their points that the chance of it being abused, even if locked is much higher. I agree it's a good point. you can get that from my first posts in this thread.<thinking about how it'd work if it shows up, or what judges a person. as a role sprout again, cause People can lose skill faster over time than gain it>

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This specifically, because my post was too long, I don't think it matters. Trolls and griefers are going to troll and grief anyway, and a job sprout icon isn't going to change that. They have the ability to pretend to be new to mess with other players with the current icon, or with no icon at all.

Worrying about abuse of sprout icons is worrying about a problem that exists with or without.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Can we get people to read tooltips instead?

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Can you memorize every tooltip when you are just starting a new job, especially if it's a job which starts at level 50 or higher? I know I can't. PirateRyanG's suggestion has merit.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I just assume that almost everyone in dungeons is either new to the game or new to the job they are playing. Sometimes they are not, but it is very frequently the case. Judging by most of what I see I think you can just assume people are new in casual content anyway.

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That's my standard course of action too, unless it's top level content; then, I assume the other players are more experienced than I am.*

*Because I'm a casual slowpoke when it comes to leveling.

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Originally Posted by Tiramu

The reason I say it's a crutch is because experienced players tend to act like reading the tooltips will teach a player how to play their role to a competent degree. They don't and a lot of the issues players have are baked into the games design.

For example, just off the top of my head:

*snip for brevity's sake*

It's here where a job specific sprout icon could come in useful, especially if it grew based on how much content they'd have completed on that job.

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Well said. I agree with you. FFXIV doesn't do an inadequate job of teaching people how to play. Reading the tooltips doesn't address that issue.

In fact, the language used in the tooltips is sometimes confusing and can lead the player to believe the spell or ability does something other than what it truly does. With that said, the thread is drifting away from the original topic.

Should there be a role/job sprout icon to alert fellow players that you are new to a job? I say yes.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

The Wakaba mark is the current sprout, so it's not ideal. We don't want to mark role newbs with that.

The Kōreisha mark - which could be displayed as a tilted 4 leaf clover - is better suited, as I mentioned earlier in the thread.

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Wait... huh? It's the current mark? But the current symbol for sprouts is literally a sprout, not that green and yellow arrow o,o

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Wait... huh? It's the current mark? But the current symbol for sprouts is literally a sprout, not that green and yellow arrow o,o

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Yep. "若葉" (wakaba) = "new/young leaf"

Edit: for some light reading :) https://99percentinvisible.org/artic...ng-experience/

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Originally Posted by Shibi

Yep. "若葉" (wakaba) = "new/young leaf"

Edit: for some light reading :) https://99percentinvisible.org/artic...ng-experience/

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OH! It's not an ARROW, it's a LEAF!

:| well, F that idea then

PS: ok but really that does NOT look like a leaf, Japan x_x graphics design is not your passion.

I don't necessarily think 'role sprout' icon is necessary but I'd like a 'job sprout' icon. Yes, I can read the tool tips, but they mean nothing to me until I see them in action.