Contradictions, Double Standards, Counterintuitive Design

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Originally Posted by Katoar

The solution is simple. Make optimized Healer DPS heavily dependent on the presence of party members. This can be through unique buffs and unique traits. Machinist is competing against melee jobs as their buttons do not do anything different than those of a melee job. Everything is all the same "Deal x amount of potency to target" with a different skill animation.

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No machinist is competing with BRD and DNC because of the 5% buff you wouldn’t give up a melee for a MCH or vice versa

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Without higher damage it just turns into doing more work for the same result which is an issue in itself.

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It's an issue how? If you take a really complex DPS job I like and reduce it to smashing 1-1-1-1 for the same damage, my reaction isn't "awesome! the effort-to-damage ratio for this job is great now!"

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

No machinist is competing with BRD and DNC because of the 5% buff you wouldn’t give up a melee for a MCH or vice versa

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You would give up a melee for 2 ranged jobs if they did more DPS. But they are artificially gimped to make for the range they have despite mechanics allowing for 100% melee uptime.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

It's an issue how? If you take a really complex DPS job I like and reduce it to smashing 1-1-1-1 for the same damage, my reaction isn't "awesome! the effort-to-damage ratio for this job is great now!"

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Because if one job does 1K dps spamming one button, 30 times a minute and another job does 1K dps pressing 15 buttons 4 times a minute the 2nd job has carpal tunnel for the exact same output.

More effort is supposed to reward with more dps. That's pretty much the standard. High APM jobs are supposed to do high damage. It's like the old DRK's. Every other action was [DARK ARTS!] and it just got old REALLY fast.

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Originally Posted by Katoar

You would give up a melee for 2 ranged jobs if they did more DPS. But they are artificially gimped to make for the range they have despite mechanics allowing for 100% melee uptime.

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I mean if MCH and melees did the same DPS why would you ever bring a melee, in its current form MCH only competes with BRD and DNC and that tends to work well even if melee get uptime way too easily

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean if MCH and melees did the same DPS why would you ever bring a melee, in its current form MCH only competes with BRD and DNC and that tends to work well even if melee get uptime way too easily

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the difference still shouldnt be so stark anyways. if they cut the gap between pranged and melee+blm to 1/3 it would be fine

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean if MCH and melees did the same DPS why would you ever bring a melee

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For the 1% party buff increase.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Because if one job does 1K dps spamming one button, 30 times a minute and another job does 1K dps pressing 15 buttons 4 times a minute the 2nd job has carpal tunnel for the exact same output.

More effort is supposed to reward with more dps. That's pretty much the standard. High APM jobs are supposed to do high damage. It's like the old DRK's. Every other action was [DARK ARTS!] and it just got old REALLY fast.

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That's not how the game has been balanced since ever. And even if you did feel the need to apply damage boost to the "complex" DPS healer, it wouldn't need to be more than the usual couple percent compared to the simplest healer, which is not an issue at all. People really don't care as long as the bar on fflogs looks slightly longer.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

That's not how the game has been balanced since ever.

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And DRK's complained about being the busiest tank while also having the worst mitigation suite for a long time.

And MCH (and to a small extent DNC/BRD) complained about being some of the busiest DPS while their dps is at the bottom.

"It's always been that way" is generally a terrible excuse from any design perspective. It does nothing but hinder future growth potential. Progress almost always demands changing the current models.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I mean if MCH and melees did the same DPS why would you ever bring a melee

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Why wouldn't you if they do the same dps? There's no downside, they both do the same. If the melee is more fun for you, you'd play the melee. Quite a few players simply don't like ranged.

FF14 players really aren't that obsessed with meta. As long as they can clear content and have their 5% bonus, most of the time they'll bring whatever jobs they can get. Ranged tax is completely unnecessary.