Hissatsu: Kaiten

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Originally Posted by BokoToloko

Watching the behavior in DNC weaponskills, I'm somewhat positive Ogi Namikiri can't share button with Ikishoten as the former is a weaponskill and the latter an ability (the same way Devilment and Starfall Dance are separated but Technical Step and Tiliana are on the same button). Why this happens is anyone's guess (my best guess the transition from one button to the other comes with a delay, which can be worked around between a GCD interval but not when the first button is an ability).

And while I hold my indifference about the removal about Kaiten, i must add that I didn't really feel the class was really bloated, specially with the removal of the actions linked to Third Eye.

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Its already a thing with certain plugins. Its zbsolutely possible.

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Originally Posted by LittleChickenNugget

I'm trash that's all in for easier classes to enjoy. There are games out there dedicated to steep learning curves and classes with difficulties. Let me just fast spam some skills to kill for fun.

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If you want to play something braindead easy, you already have a bunch of options. No reason why everything has to be simplified and dumbed down to chimp level of complexity. Sadly, Yoshi P seems dead bent on making everything streamlined, easymode and boring beyond comprehension (under the excuse and myth of "button bloat" which a lot of people seem to accept without question). WoW did the exact same thing and it didn't work. Why does Yoshi P think it'll work here? Easy classes are boring for a lot of people, and by removing complexity you're also removing skill expression and sense of accomplishment when mastering a class.

You can have easy classes, medium difficulty classes and hard ones. There's no mutual exclusiveness here. Thinking in absolutes is the same as having a tunnelvision preventing you from seeing the larger picture.

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Originally Posted by Imoye

If you want to play something braindead easy, you already have a bunch of options. No reason why everything has to be simplified and dumbed down to chimp level of complexity. Sadly, Yoshi P seems dead bent on making everything streamlined, easymode and boring beyond comprehension (under the excuse and myth of "button bloat" which a lot of people seem to accept without question). WoW did the exact same thing and it didn't work. Why does Yoshi P think it'll work here? Easy classes are boring for a lot of people, and by removing complexity you're also removing skill expression and sense of accomplishment when mastering a class.

You can have easy classes, medium difficulty classes and hard ones. There's no mutual exclusiveness here. Thinking in absolutes is the same as having a tunnelvision preventing you from seeing the larger picture.

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Possibly the worst part of this (well, one of the worst) is Yoshida-san himself - talking during his interviews in the Noclip docu - about how one of the design flaws in 1.0 was how people would just use the most powerful version of a spell over and over again because resource management wasn't an issue. One of the major things they wanted to add into the 2.0+ version was resource management and giving people a choice on what to use for a certain result.

The Kaiten removal is killing what little resource management SAM had, directly countermanding what Yoshida-san himself said in his interview. The given reasoning of "button bloat" can be so much more cleanly addressed by simply upgrading Shoha to Shoha 2 and Guren to Senei, with appropriate damage falloffs in aoe situations to maintain the expected level of damage.

Just chiming in to say removing Kaiten definitely sucks and hoping they revert the change based on negative feedback.

dont play samurai often... but its a fun skill, it adds impact snd therefor fun. pls dont remove it

Kaiten stopped mattering once we lost midare only for it to be added back as a new skill. SAM in 6.0 is far worse to me than 5.x, I hate the flow of it, all the casts, and the aoes getting their own skill instead of damage falloff.

Removing kaiten actually helps the flow for me just based on skill placement on my hotbars, but does nothing for the other added bloat.

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Originally Posted by HayaW

Is anyone else disappointed that this action is being removed? Im not a numbers person, nor do I understand what changes are good/ bad for a job, but Hissatsu: Kaiten looks really cool... I mean it looks super cool

And that has to count for something, right?!

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As a Samurai main myself, i too will miss that skill. Spinning that sword in a flip of a wrist lol

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Originally Posted by Imoye

If you want to play something braindead easy, you already have a bunch of options. No reason why everything has to be simplified and dumbed down to chimp level of complexity. Sadly, Yoshi P seems dead bent on making everything streamlined, easymode and boring beyond comprehension (under the excuse and myth of "button bloat" which a lot of people seem to accept without question). WoW did the exact same thing and it didn't work. Why does Yoshi P think it'll work here? Easy classes are boring for a lot of people, and by removing complexity you're also removing skill expression and sense of accomplishment when mastering a class.

You can have easy classes, medium difficulty classes and hard ones. There's no mutual exclusiveness here. Thinking in absolutes is the same as having a tunnelvision preventing you from seeing the larger picture.

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The sad thing is that it does work here since the game is heavily designed for people that have no desire to spend any time in gaming yet still fulfill their mmorpg fantasies via mmorpg simulator xiv, and the raiders that for some reason want it easier and easier to parse.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

If looking cool is all that mattered, we'd still have Power Slash and Grenado Shot and a bunch of other cool lookin' skills.

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we'd still have dragon blood.
Gimme back my Dragoon saiyan mode

Samurai is probably the DPS I like the least and even I will agree that losing Kaiten is a shame. It felt good to use and contributed to class fantasy.

Button bloat is just an excuse, because as people have already said there are several buttons they should have deleted/merged.