The Expert roulette design is extremely bad

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dapperfaffer

To help get groups clears for Hard Mode dungeons and Trials

---

The only "(Hard)" mode trials are, again, Titan, Ifrit, and Garuda. They are, also, not hard.

Here are the dungeons that got remakes: Copperbell Mines, Haukke Manor, Halatali, Brayflox's Longstop, The Stone Vigil, The Tam-Tara Deepcroft, Sastasha, The Sunken Temple of Qarn, The Wanderer's Palace, and Amdapor Keep; Pharos Sirius, The Lost City of Amdapor, Hullbreaker Isle, and The Great Gubal Library, Sohm Al; The Fractal Continuum, and Saint Mocianne's Arboretum. None were significantly harder than any other dungeon in their tier. Copperbell Mines (Hard) and Haukke Manor (Hard) were arguably much easier than the original dungeon of the same tier, Pharos Sirius; Halitali (Hard) and Brayflox (Hard) were both faster runs than the original dungeon of the same tier, Hullbreaker; Tam-tara Deepcroft (Hard) had only a single boss that was no more intuitive than Snowcloak's bosses and was no harder on the whole; even Amdapor Keep (Hard) was no harder than Keeper of the Lake in its time; Hullbreaker (Hard) was simpler and easier than Sohr Kai; etc., etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dapperfaffer

So, as fun as this is, I'm not arguing the devs choice to cut content that had low clear rates that should be reimplemented because somehow it'll be different this time. It won't be.

---

None of the "(Hard)" content in this game had low clear rates by way of difficulty. At most, it was because all but Titan (Hard), Ifrit (Hard), and Garuda (Hard) weren't required to progress the MSQ.


Moreover, no one here had argued for the re-inclusion of v2 dungeons ("Hard modes" which, again, were no harder than any other dungeon). That's your strawman. The closest, and only be way of misnomer / overlapping terminology, was Garnix here:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Garnix

I would rather have "hard modes" of these dungeons instead of them just scaling up.
So, something kinda similar to what they are doing with the trials.
Hard mode Anima, please.

---

Even his version is clearly different from simply reusing some of the old dungeon layout. (Which is the only thing that makes something "(Hard)" -- the fact that part of its assets had already been used. It has never, in this game, been a marker of dungeon difficulty.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puremallace

Not sure how many others feel this way but Endwalker had by my count 8 dungeons. When I look at the Expert Roulette no matter the expansion it is the same 3 dungeons recycled over and over and over.

I find this to be a horrible use of developer resources and time. What is the logical reason for not having all 8 dungeons in the expert queue?

---

As you can see people are extremely happy by doing 3 dungeons every 3 months.

"If you are not happy with it, unsub, don't queue, go play something else"

Instead of getting rid of level sync or actually trying to do something with older without nerfing your character back to press 1-2 for straight 20 minutes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dapperfaffer

Hard Mode, challenging super elite not hard mode randomizer hampster wheel play every day so you hate the game content can STAY IN WoW WHERE IT BELONGS!

---

Hard mode dungeons are no harder than regular dungeons in this game. The suffix "Hard" attached to a dungeon does not mean it is any harder. It. Literally. Only. Means. There are reused assets. That is it. That's all.

I'm done giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're merely painfully misinformed rather than outright trolling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dapperfaffer

Maybe next time actually read posts instead of jumping into starting an argument with someone. Because this is the reality of Hard Mode dungeons being no harder than regular dungeons in the game, it means they aren't needed or a worthwhile prospect of content development to warrant resources.

---

What? You're making zero sense. Maybe you should read the thread with a bit more caution instead of throwing nonsense around.

to OP: having so few dungeons in expert roulette sucks but throwing in weird sync versions of the levelling ones wouldn't make it better.

to dapperfaffer: stop removing your posts, it makes reading through the thread very annoying, if it wasn't for the quotes it makes it look like people responding to you are speaking to themselves. No matter how wrong what you say is.

Just change it to 81-90 and bingo bango you have 8 things to do now instead of 2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tlamila

to OP: having so few dungeons in expert roulette sucks but throwing in weird sync versions of the levelling ones wouldn't make it better.

to dapperfaffer: stop removing your posts, it makes reading through the thread very annoying, if it wasn't for the quotes it makes it look like people responding to you are speaking to themselves. No matter how wrong what you say is.

---

Doing an actually challenging version of Anima would be welcome. The sheer amount of time they put into some of these dungeons when we all know they will not be played again for years is just sad and seems like a god awful waste of resources.

Expert roulette should be the 81-90 or some type of sync with the mobs to 90 so that we do not lose abilities. Square Enix cannot keep pretending like they have added a large amount of dungeons to the MMO since ARR that has diluted the chances you would ever see the CURRENT EXPANSION dungeon ever again to below 5%.

It does not make sense to me that the current expansion dungeons are not utilized more than once especially when in my opinion they are far higher quality than the current selection.

If I had to guess it seems the current expert dungeons were picked because they are straight forward and brain dead easy to finish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Puremallace

Doing an actually challenging version of Anima would be welcome. The sheer amount of time they put into some of these dungeons when we all know they will not be played again for years is just sad and seems like a god awful waste of resources.

---

But see, you keep saying they won't played for years, and that's not true. They're in levelling roulette, and that roulette is done all the time. If anything, probably even more than expert roulette. Consider that a lot of people get their weekly tomes from either savage, or hunts, or maps, or what cap content have you. Especially in odd patches where hunts currency gives tome gear upgrades. Hell, some people don't even care about tomes, but that's a different matter.
But there are always people running other dungeons, be it for levelling other classes, helping friends, helping some sprout, or even farming the glam/minion/whatever. I've seen ShB levelling dungeons so many times, both from levelling Trust and in levelling roulette even now, while I for example I've only done Pag'lathan and Heroe's Gauntlet a bunch of times.
And if anything the levelling dungeons are more future-proofed than expert ones, since 50/60/etc roulette is not worth the reward so most people don't run it and rare;y get to see old cap dungeons again.

I think a bigger problem is that when you get only 1 dungeon per patch rather than 2, the expert roulette is too limited. We should go back to old dungeon release schedule if anything, then. In SB I don't remember expert roulette being boring at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mika_Zahard

Do you know what an expert dungeon is?

Ofc it will be 3 dungeons, because only those 3 are the level 90 ones (duh).

When .1 releases, the expert dungeons may change to another one, and the same will appply for .2/3/4/5 content.

---

You have blown my mind.

ordinarily i'm not one to use anyone's length of time played against them but some of y'all have clearly only started playing either half-way through if not the very end of shadowbringers and it shows.

of course expert roulette is basically empty. they release more level 90 content as the patches go on. this isn't a new concept. shadowbringers only had 3 level 80 dungeons at the start, too. stormblood was also the same and while stormblood had like, two more endgame dungeons said two were just hard-mode versions of dungeons that already exist.

ARR and Heavensward have an obscene amount of dungeons on the other hand and that's mostly because a lot of them were 1.0 dungeons that were simply too fricking huge and split into 2-3 dungeons (see: aurum vale and dzemael darkhold)