Can we please get rid of square and circle arenas for every trials and 8 men raids?

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Originally Posted by DrFlesh

vehicular combat

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Like the Gobwalker in A2, where someone doesn't get to play their job?

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Originally Posted by DrFlesh

teleports to secondary/terciary arenas for specific mechanics, changing platforms

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Like Quarantine in A4, Timegate in A12, the ghost cabins in O5, the add phase in E8 and the platform switching in Diamond Weapon?

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Originally Posted by Sicno

Again, what you've described can be found in Coils of Bahamut, the first raid series implemented in XIV, from which moving forward they've trimmed the fat over time, removing elements that weren't so popular and focusing on the meat of the raids that keep the people coming back.

Here in XIV "raiding" is synonymous with "challenging content", and it's more associated with the savage raids than their normal versions. For such purposes the trash mobs, the long walks, etc. are not a challenge the more dedicated players care about, so they're deemed a waste of time and what everybody really cares about is conquering the mechanics of the bosses. That's where the meat of the raiding is here. Doing a one-time walk and aoe spam on trash is a pointless chore when you'll spend the next 3 hours wiping to the 8th minute of an encounter you're progging.

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1. I completely agree; Coils had a lot of the features I described and I still think of it fondly for that reason. Coming from multiple other games where raids were in the old-school Grand Dungeon style, I appreciated Coil and the Syrcus Tower raids for being large immersive environments.

2. I stopped raiding in other MMOs circa 2013 so I can't speak to how raiding in other games has changed aside from being aware of Mythic+ in WoW. I understand that Raiding here in XIV generally refers to the 8-player, non-Alliance content. I enjoy the non-Alliance raids for what they are, understanding that times change and with it, a game's content. That being said the Trial > Cutscene > Trial > Cutscene pattern no longer seems like raiding to me. It's interesting and enjoyable content with cool story progression but they're not the Epic-In-Scope Dungeons I, in my old-school mind, associate with raiding.

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Originally Posted by DrFlesh

op has logs from the last savage tier (i checked because i didn't want to respond to a bait thread if that was the case) so....

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and yet complains about "square and circle" arenas?

So they're complaining about a problem they KNOW isn't true. Even better.

It's also possible they ran them with overgeared people, ruining the challenge.

Either way I am highly dubious of good intentions or actual concern and more convinced they're just here to "lol watch me compare this game to WoW and stir up mud".

It would be great if we would get more Trials which are similar to the Vishap Fight, where we have to defeat it before it reaches its goal, or the other way arround, where you have to run away from a Boss instead and have to fight adwaves until you reach a save spot where you can attack the Boss.

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Originally Posted by Sicno

Like Quarantine in A4, Timegate in A12, the ghost cabins in O5, the add phase in E8 and the platform switching in Diamond Weapon?

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you mean the part when you go from a big square to a small square? or like diamond weapon where you stay on a spot and magically jump to another platform without doing anything?

i love the white knights trying to defend shit raid design

and no, with "changing platforms" i mean things like the elerethe fight on "that game" when you have to run against the wind jumping between poison puddles and walking on a twig to try and cross a precipice while you have adds munching your ass, i didn't mean afk into a square to get pushed to the platform in front of you

A huge point of the design philosophy for Savage is that the fights can be run independently and as such are separate instances and it facilitates PUGs accross the whole week.

Nobody wants to deal with boss lockouts in a single raid.

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

That being said the Trial > Cutscene > Trial > Cutscene pattern no longer seems like raiding to me. It's interesting and enjoyable content with cool story progression but they're not the Epic-In-Scope Dungeons I, in my old-school mind, associate with raiding.

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That's a result of the aforementioned trimming of the raiding experience. In Coils the blend of storytelling and raiding may be more engaging. In Alexander they created a "normal", easier version of the raids and the story is in that version so that everybody could see said story without needing to engage in more demanding content. Those normal versions still kept a walk to the boss plus trash, which were unnecessary in savage because the point there is the big challenge. Yet apparently they were deemed unnecessary too moving into Stormblood, and that's where the format we know today of Trial > Cutscene > Trial > Cutscene solidified. As you can see a more "robust" experience is something that was present in the game at first but that was gradually trimmed of its not-so-popular elements. That's a result of player feedback and not something that was designed from the get-go.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Except using your particular analogy OP has asked for a drink with a crunchy texture, more substance and meat. To which we are suggesting maybe go an eat food instead of demanding that a drink take on the characteristics of food.


All of the aspects they are asking for are already present in Alliance raids. Many of which ARE challenging content. OP is not even 60 and has not even reached some of the raids that ARE reasonably challenging and in the environments they're asking for, not to mention they dismissed the alliance raids as "casual". While the crystal tower series is overgeared to heck and a steamroll, the Ivalice raids are most definitely NOT steamrollable and contain exactly what everyone is talking about: Non standard boss arenas, challenging encounters, and enriched environments.

Not to mention that they have ONLY posted comparisons to WoW, seemingly in a very trolling manner, suggesting that FFXIV should cater to unhealthy playstyles and straight up copy WoWs latest expansion just because.


So.. maybe don't be so quick to defend an obvious troll.

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Alliance raids are challenging? Lol. News to me

uuuuuh fyi we also had a rectangle in Shadowbringers

Curious does having other arena shapes really matter much? Also while a lot folks woud love for devs to change up dungeon/trial/raid fight dynamics (me included) you also get many others that cry foul and freak the fuck out we theres something changed with the itinerary.