SE are leaving BLM to rot by giving SMN and RDM even more utility

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Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

Good news for some folks. Yoshi has stated that if SMN rework in 6.x is a success from a balance perspective, raise will be removed in 7.0. It was only included in 6.x as an insurance in case they messed up balance.

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Key words: "However, please take note that the chances of Resurrection getting removed completely in the future will be high if this rework ends up going well."

I highly doubt SE will allow RDM raise to exist as freely either if that happens, so it'll either be neutered or removed (in which case they can get some other white mage spell for flavor that's situational like vercure but not a must have like raise) as well. After all, raise tax is stupid and this will finally get to balance SMN and RDM with BLM (who now have ample mobility unlike popular opinion).

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My only problem with this is he shouldn't say it's a success for balance until we get our hands on the things and test things out.
The playerbase is generally better players than the dev team and they admitted that awhile ago. Hell there's already a rotation for BLM floating around using transpose to skip blizzard 4 cast and mathematically it does more dps than a standard rotation. I doubt they planned for that

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

My only problem with this is he shouldn't say it's a success for balance until we get our hands on the things and test things out.
The playerbase is generally better players than the dev team and they admitted that awhile ago. Hell there's already a rotation for BLM floating around using transpose to skip blizzard 4 cast and mathematically it does more dps than a standard rotation. I doubt they planned for that

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You can't skip blizzard 4. Without B4 you can't get paradox, and paradox is such a big DPS increase that you'd have to basically short circuit the entire AF phase for it to work out. Which wouldn't be too surprising. But yeah, you can save a firestarter proc, go through the rest of AF/UI phase, then transpose and burn the proc, and double fire 3's transitional potency. It's quite silly just how much you can break BLM because the devs refuse to actually fix its core design problem (AF/UI having timers to provide structure to the class).

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

My only problem with this is he shouldn't say it's a success for balance until we get our hands on the things and test things out.
The playerbase is generally better players than the dev team and they admitted that awhile ago. Hell there's already a rotation for BLM floating around using transpose to skip blizzard 4 cast and mathematically it does more dps than a standard rotation. I doubt they planned for that

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he literally didn't say that it's a success for balance, though? there's a conditional in the sentence you glossed right over.

"if this rework ends up going well"

Simple answer, because he is fun to play.

No one will kick you from a group for playing a BLM.
FFxiv has the most balanced classes I've every seen in a MMORPG.

Everything can be played by everyone.

You totally can ignore the 0,01% of ultra hardcore raider and things they say, because it just doesn't matter for 99,99% of the player base.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

You can't skip blizzard 4. Without B4 you can't get paradox, and paradox is such a big DPS increase that you'd have to basically short circuit the entire AF phase for it to work out. Which wouldn't be too surprising. But yeah, you can save a firestarter proc, go through the rest of AF/UI phase, then transpose and burn the proc, and double fire 3's transitional potency. It's quite silly just how much you can break BLM because the devs refuse to actually fix its core design problem (AF/UI having timers to provide structure to the class).

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Actually you can. Transpose grants,, paradox at the moment.
They should probably fix that.
That and having firestarter last 30 seconds leads to some interesting applications.

So despair> transpose(gain para)> paradox>firestarter fire3l
It's sound atm

https://youtu.be/3W-PSBBdmOs

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Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

Balance takes priority, always.

Verraise being locked to SMN would be like how Shadewalker/Smokeskin was locked to NIN during HW/SB. This was removed for balance reasons along with enmity. Similar analog would be raises removed along with caster raises entirely, which is what 7.0 would look like.

Plus, you can replace Verraise with any cookie cutter white magic skill and most people will be fine with it. They've already added a magick barrier and I only foresee more things to be added along those lines.




The proper way to deal with caster raises if all 3 were to get them is like BLU, with a slight modification. Change them to an oGCD on a 3 minute cooldown with 0 MP cost and move it to the role actions. This way it's a free raise every 3 minutes that doesn't hurt anyone, but not something anyone can spam. The caster shouldn't have to be penalized to use raise as they sometimes do currently. The penalty for death is already paid with weakness.

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You're talking completely out of your butt with nothing but speculation to back it up. Not once has yoshi ever spoken about removing verraise. it's not on the agenda and there's no indication it's ever been. Sooo. Yeah you're wrong.

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

Actually you can. Transpose grants,, paradox at the moment.
They should probably fix that.
That and having firestarter last 30 seconds leads to some interesting applications.

So despair> transpose(gain para)> paradox>firestarter fire3l
It's sound atm

https://youtu.be/3W-PSBBdmOs

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The problem is if you don't have Umbral Hearts 3, you cannot get Paradox from going out of UI3 into AF. It's on the trait. This is why I bring it up as a point of the devs intentionally trying to destroy rotations that avoid B4 by making B4 necessary to get Paradox while also making Paradox higher DPS than fire 4.

https://gamerescape.com/wp-content/u...loween1986.png

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Originally Posted by Rai_Takara

Plus, you can replace Verraise with any cookie cutter white magic skill

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No, because in serious content we don't want to be spending our time casting cures. The one we have is for when things turn to absolute shit, or to prime dualcast without a target.

Verraise is actually useful, at keeping your team in the fight. And RDM damage is pretty damn good these days.

I will never understand the player base that wants to take a job that's in a very good spot and shoot it behind the barn.

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Originally Posted by Gruntler

*snip*

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The real problem is that unlimited raising causes serious problems for the encounter designers. It's not obvious unless you've played long enough, but they had to invent the damage down mechanic just to stop straight up killing players for failing mechanics. That wasn't interesting design. It also forces the game to have DPS checks because there's no triage system that collapses a healer's ability to heal, which in turn is why the damage down is so effective.

Actually, unlimited ressing in general basically demands that you kill players for simple mistakes in all forms of content. Contrast this to DRS or BA. No one can res outside of very, very limited tools. It's so limited that you are very unlikely to get more than, say, 20 out of a single group without relying on reraisers instead.

In BA, they were able to make mechanics not give damage downs, and also not straight up kill you most of the time, but still have a rather tense fight. DRS had the system of killing you for repeated mistakes, so you had some wiggle room and most mechanics didn't straight up kill you for failure.

My point is mostly that RDM having a raise isn't as good a mechanic as you think it is, and it does harm encounter design at a technical level. It's in the same boat as, say, every healer having a medica (except scholar, sad) as well as an assize (aoe heal part) and a ton of other aoe heals. At a certain point, you have to design every encounter around the fact that you can 100% top off an entire party from 1 life to full in 2 GCDs and 2 oGCDs between 2 healers, and that likewise harms the variety of what you can do in encounter design.

That said, I'm not strictly advocating for or against it. I can see benefits and drawbacks to both examples. However, at the end of the day, I firmly believe 1 thing. Either every caster gets it, or none of them should have it.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

The real problem is that unlimited raising causes serious problems for the encounter designers.

Actually, unlimited ressing in general basically demands that you kill players for simple mistakes in all forms of content.

However, at the end of the day, I firmly believe 1 thing. Either every caster gets it, or none of them should have it.

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One flaw in what you're saying however: Your hypothesis about "unlimited ressing" is being targeted at RDM and casters in general, but your arguments are broad enough to encompass healers as well. Everything you said claims that raising is harmful to the game's design, full stop -- not that it's an issue when some casters have it.