Let's delete tier 1 "Cure" spells in 6.0 (by upgrading them to tier 2)

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

How about making it encourage the use of DPS spells instead?

I posted this elsewhere, but I'll put it up here:

Cure: Restores Target’s HP. Cure Potency: 450. 1.5s Cast Time. 400 MP.
Additional Effect: Cleric Stance: Increases the potency of the next Stone, Glare, or Holy you cast by 50% while reducing its cast time by 2.5s. Duration: 15s.

The intent here was to get you to use Cure for movement and a touch of healing while offsetting the DPS tax of said movement. I'd give this in ARR where it's most needed as well as has its most interesting ramifications. Effectively it's a pre-cursor to Lilies. It's part of a larger rework I've posted elsewhere, and in that it does get phased out, but the gist is there. Compare its use cases to the rest of WHM's kit as it is currently before looking for my rework and you'll see what I mean. It's probably too busted at a guaranteed rate, but it doesn't discourage pure DPS, just excessive healing without forethought.

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That's not a bad start. I'd personally also love a damage movement tool that serves the same purpose as Ruin 2 or Malefic's shorter cast time. There are plenty of lower-difficulty content encounters where you don't have to heal at all; WHM as currently designed in those scenarios has feelsbad DoT clipping or overhealing as its movement options. Without a Ruin 2 equivalent, you've still got that problem where uselessly healing an already healthy teammate is the alternative. A list of movement options with different tradeoffs would go a long way toward actual decision-making in the kit.

I recently tried a few Expert roulettes as WHM to see what I'm "missing", and it's a yikes from me. When the tank is actually awake it's just clip clip clip clip clip barf.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

That's not a bad start. I'd personally also love a damage movement tool that serves the same purpose as Ruin 2 or Malefic's shorter cast time. There are plenty of lower-difficulty content encounters where you don't have to heal at all; WHM as currently designed in those scenarios has feelsbad DoT clipping or overhealing as its movement options. Without a Ruin 2 equivalent, you've still got that problem where uselessly healing an already healthy teammate is the alternative. A list of movement options with different tradeoffs would go a long way toward actual decision-making in the kit.

I recently tried a few Expert roulettes as WHM to see what I'm "missing", and it's a yikes from me. When the tank is actually awake it's just clip clip clip clip clip barf.

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To be fair, my rework does add like five different GCDs that do just that in total, including that proc. One is Aero 3, which doubles as an AoE button. Two of them Are Stone/Holy and Rapture or Solace slapped together with an Excog-like trigger heal that are independent from Lilies. The last is a DPS lily, but that works because I turn Misery into a positive gain regardless of how you use Lilies, and Misery then acts as WHM's burst to help it compete with SCH and AST's raid dps cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

That's why I want to see Thin Air granted to WHM before they hit 50.

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Would be nice, but it would be a hell of a lot easier and less ability moving to just give Fluid Aura 8% MP back on usage.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Would be nice, but it would be a hell of a lot easier and less ability moving to just give Fluid Aura 8% MP back on usage.

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It would need to do something useful first.....

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

It would need to do something useful first.....

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8% mana back every 30s in low level content is very useful. If you're always casting like you should be, Lucid isn't enough.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

8% mana back every 30s in low level content is very useful. If you're always casting like you should be, Lucid isn't enough.

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The thing with Lucid is that you've got to save the first usage for when you're like 80% down on mana and then always keep it on cooldown after that point and that will work for most downscaled content. Coming up... yeah it's brutal.

What about changing Fluid Aura to:

• Now OGCD insta cast
• Causes the next skill cause to return you mana (so you go up in mana instead of down)
• Gives you like a +5% potency buff to that skill

That'd work well with the WHM kit and give you the flexibility to use Fluid Aura for either more HPS or DPS with whatever the situation needs.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

The thing with Lucid is that you've got to save the first usage for when you're like 80% down on mana and then always keep it on cooldown after that point and that will work for most downscaled content. Coming up... yeah it's brutal.

What about changing Fluid Aura to:

• Now OGCD insta cast
• Causes the next skill cause to return you mana (so you go up in mana instead of down)
• Gives you like a +5% potency buff to that skill

That'd work well with the WHM kit and give you the flexibility to use Fluid Aura for either more HPS or DPS with whatever the situation needs.

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First, just use Lucid on cooldown from the get go or on your first DoT refresh. Compared to Stormblood Lucid (which had twice the cooldown) it gives 20% more MP, but only if you're using it on cooldown. It's kinda like tank cooldowns: Use proactively or you screw yourself over by the time you need them.

Second, that Fluid Aura change is kinda gross but also really 'eh'? Like, you can use it on a raise and gain 2400 MP, though effectively it's more like 4800 MP. That part's busted. Which means you'd have to restrict it to an actual heal or DPS spell via the potency buff (which doesn't offset the weaving cost), but, really, the problem is the MP cost on WHM's heals in of themselves. Why not simply tune the costs down a bit?

That said, my Cleric Stance proc proposal in a post earlier in this thread (pulled from my rework elsewhere) also offers a partial solution to these MP concerns as well, by offering more MP-efficiency through clever sequencing of spells. When compared against Cure II usage on a target you're not worried about, you save 600 MP and gain 200 potency worth of healing with a [Cure-Stone]x2 sequence while retaining the same DPS that Cure II + Stone x3 has, and that healing can be split amongst two targets, which can potentially save MP as well if you were thinking of using an AoE heal. Every other heal WHM has is still more efficient in some other manner, of course, but this does matter for tank-healing at the levels we're talking about.

Either way, I think the better solution is just to knock off about 200 MP off of Cure II/III and Medica I/II. The changes won't put it as low as Astrologian, but they will be felt nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

First, just use Lucid on cooldown from the get go or on your first DoT refresh. Compared to Stormblood Lucid (which had twice the cooldown) it gives 20% more MP, but only if you're using it on cooldown. It's kinda like tank cooldowns: Use proactively or you screw yourself over by the time you need them.

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Thank you for stating the obvious on how to use Lucid. The rest of us are now thoroughly reminded of what we already know.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Second, that Fluid Aura change is kinda gross but also really 'eh'? Like, you can use it on a raise and gain 2400 MP, though effectively it's more like 4800 MP. That part's busted. Which means you'd have to restrict it to an actual heal or DPS spell via the potency buff (which doesn't offset the weaving cost), but, really, the problem is the MP cost on WHM's heals in of themselves. Why not simply tune the costs down a bit?

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Why not both?

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

That said, my Cleric Stance proc proposal in a post earlier in this thread (pulled from my rework elsewhere) also offers a partial solution to these MP concerns as well, by offering more MP-efficiency through clever sequencing of spells.

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Could you either post it here or stop with the self-promotion?

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Thank you for stating the obvious on how to use Lucid. The rest of us are now thoroughly reminded of what we already know.

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The thought process put into your posts live up to your signature. As for your questions and concerns, I'll simplify things: No. Already explained it. Go back and read.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Why not both?

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The thought process put into your posts live up to your signature. As for your questions and concerns, I'll simplify things: No. Already explained it. Go back and read.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Could you either post it here or stop with the self-promotion?

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The thought process put into your posts live up to your signature. As for your questions and concerns, I'll simplify things: No. Already explained it. Go back and read.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

The thought process put into your posts live up to your signature. As for your questions and concerns, I'll simplify things: No. Already explained it. Go back and read.



The thought process put into your posts live up to your signature. As for your questions and concerns, I'll simplify things: No. Already explained it. Go back and read.



The thought process put into your posts live up to your signature. As for your questions and concerns, I'll simplify things: No. Already explained it. Go back and read.

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As expected, your responses are as vapid as always... yet still somehow tend to pull off the elitism angle.

And when it comes to asking for new things, you should always ask for the OP instead of trying to make it "balanced". Balance is a myth (since it doesn't actually exist) and often times what we think of as OP isn't. If the dev team likes the idea, they'll figure out how to make it work with everything else and (tbh) we really shouldn't be doing their jobs because we do not have access to their data so we will (inevitably) do it wrong when we try to balance something that doesn't exist.