Warrior 6.0 Wishlist

No tank has any more right to personal DPS based on theme.

The only reason WAR was ever perceived as such because it was blatantly overpowered in a time where people thought tanks only fitted into one role each(WAR was better in both Offense AND Defense to add insult to injury).

Angry man does not = more damage than holy man or darkness man or explosion man.

Burst damage should always be less DPS to perfected constant DPS. The former is more flexible and a much better prog tank with even more prowess in certain small DPS checks. The damage difference between them is no more than 5% TANK dps. We are talking ~600 dps difference in a total RDPS of ~120,000. It literally does not matter other than to I guess pointlessly e-peen over your co-tank on a parse.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Bear in mind also that DRK is also burst-focused at present, and has less to show for it at present than WAR does.

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It should be noted DRK is doing fine in terms of damage. rDPS is not a good metric for tanks since none of them provide any raid buffs. The better metric is aDPS and DRK can contest with PLD and usually outpace it at 99th+. In an age where Trick and other raidwide buffs got nerfed, DRK decided to be the biggest contributor to buff windows.

If anyone needs to know why WAR is not even doing more damage with all the crit stacking and RNG fiesta of top parsing then just look at your beloved auto-dcrits.

Auto dcritting is a horrible mechanic because it caps out WARs damage. Inner Chaos is not really a 920 pot move that can auto crit. It is really a 1840 pot move that *cannot* crit. The reason that this distinction matters is because every other tanks potency is balanced with WARs Auto Crit in mind; but they can all dcrit. It's why DRK can more often surpass WAR in the full fledged opener. It's why Inner Chaos is not really the strongest single hit move; Confiteor is when it Dcrits(2400 stinking potency).

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

If anyone needs to know why WAR is not even doing more damage with all the crit stacking and RNG fiesta of top parsing then just look at your beloved auto-dcrits.

Auto dcritting is a horrible mechanic because it caps out WARs damage. Inner Chaos is not really a 920 pot move that can auto crit. It is really a 1840 pot move that *cannot* crit. The reason that this distinction matters is because every other tanks potency is balanced with WARs Auto Crit in mind; but they can all dcrit. It's why DRK can more often surpass WAR in the full fledged opener. It's why Inner Chaos is not really the strongest single hit move; Confiteor is when it Dcrits(2400 stinking potency).

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I wouldn't say that the auto-directcrits are a horrible mechanic. The problem more lies with the tanks having unintended access to direct hit since StB. Warrior dps is tuned for a meta where the other tanks have a 0% chance of getting D.hits and D.crits. Without the extra 1.04 to 1.06 multiplier to average damage they get from from 12 to 18 Heaven's Eye VIII melds the other tanks would be slightly behind WAR instead of slightly ahead.

As for Confiteor, with a 25% Crit rate 1.6 Crit multiplier and 24% D.hit rate, it averages out to ~1462.8 potency (57% chance of a 1200 potency standard hit, 19% chance of a 1920 potency Crit, 18% chance of a 1500 potency D.hit, 6% chance of a 2400 potency D.crit) on average where as each Inner Chaos is always going to be 1840 potency with a 1.6 Crit multiplier. For extra context, IR Fell Cleaves will always be 1180 potency in the same situation while Requiscat Holy Spirits will be ~640 potency on average.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

When a damage buff has more than 30% uptime, then it's not really burst. Every time you step off the boss you're falling further behind. That's also the reason why as players get better and overall uptime improves, these jobs have more to show for it.

Burst focused jobs give you flexibility on when you want to unload your damage. Remember O5S? There have to be checks and balances.

When tank jobs are so close together in dps, there's very little wiggle room to adjust any of this such that burst focused jobs are better than everyone else on select fights. Bear in mind also that DRK is also burst-focused at present, and has less to show for it at present than WAR does.

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Wow 1 example in the last 24 raids lol. Nevermind the fact it was an utter waste.

My only argument was that shield boy's damage was too high imo, simply because of there no-longer-existent "protector" aesthetic. And it wasn't that burst focused jobs should be best in any given fight, but that there are none (or very few) where a burst job gets to shine. Burst vs Sustain does not matter because as each of you have pointed out it can (and has been) easily be skewed too much in either direction by the devs.

To be frank, if I'm not allowed to hold PLD to a different standard based on past implementations, than neither should anyone be bringing up "but WAR was King" reasons for why they no longer are.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

If anyone needs to know why WAR is not even doing more damage with all the crit stacking and RNG fiesta of top parsing then just look at your beloved auto-dcrits.

Auto dcritting is a horrible mechanic because it caps out WARs damage. Inner Chaos is not really a 920 pot move that can auto crit. It is really a 1840 pot move that *cannot* crit. The reason that this distinction matters is because every other tanks potency is balanced with WARs Auto Crit in mind; but they can all dcrit. It's why DRK can more often surpass WAR in the full fledged opener. It's why Inner Chaos is not really the strongest single hit move; Confiteor is when it Dcrits(2400 stinking potency).

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That's too bad, it almost sounds like you're saying that other attacks need to get nerfed or WAR's need to get buffed.

The reason the auto crits even came to be is because certain people cried about their openers being so crit reliant and waaaaah my FCS didn't crit under berserk.

I honestly wouldn't mind moving away from the auto crits in the future, but I'm sure it would get people malding all over again.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

That's too bad, it almost sounds like you're saying that other attacks need to get nerfed or WAR's need to get buffed.

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Balancing around speedrunning is generally a bad idea.

O5S was just the most egregious case. Too many examples last expansion. Everyone just got tired of it. Now no examples. Much better. I think there are plenty of problems worth addressing with tanks in this game, but damage balance for once is not one of them.

I agree that auto-Crit/DH moves are not fun. I would have gone in the exact opposite direction, with moves that proc or reset on DH/Crit. Oh no, will you have to react on the fly to score your 'perfect' run? How terrible.

Predictable damage output was predictably boring. But you got what you collectively clamored for. Next expansion, these sorts of poorly thought out demands are going to get Onslaught nerfed into a standardized gap closer clone like the rest of us have. Look forward to it.

I think that removing DH from tanks is a bad idea, because we don't need even more of a dps difference between damage dealers and everyone else. If anything, DH should become universally available on tank/healer gear, and Tenacity/Piety's bonuses should be part of your respective main stat progression.

The thing with the crit stat is they had the courtesy to make it not only increase the likelihood of crits, but the damage crits do.

If they want to keep buffs that increase crit rate, I would like if all of those effects increased the damage of crits... maybe by the same%. This way I would feel less bad going into IR with bonus crit chance.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I think that removing DH from tanks is a bad idea, because we don't need even more of a dps difference between damage dealers and everyone else. If anything, DH should become universally available on tank/healer gear, and Tenacity/Piety's bonuses should be part of your respective main stat progression.

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All the removal of Direct Hit would do is decrease tank dps by a minuscule amount. The difference between melding Direct Hit and melding Tenacity is about 2% and that is roughly the difference between the current top WARs and and top PLDs, GNBs and DRKs.

Abstaining from high level math and end game damage intricacies..for now at least, WAR has another clear problem - terrible pace of his skill progression.

Let's look at an example of a well - paced job progression - the summoner.
At lvl 53 i can summon 3 different primals, execute all their special attacks (three for each one), heal/ress allies, DoT clusters of mobs and do nice burst with Fester.
Though there's more to come it already feels like a well trained smn with skills to show for it! Not to mention lvl 50 skill being the primal's signature super attack - juicy ending to job's story line!

And now on to my lvl 52 warr...
I'm basically a marauder with a useless (for now) beast gauge..
The two hallmarks of a warr (crazy burst and self-healing) are waaaays off still..
Inner beast sucks - same damage as last chain of Storm's Path/Storm's eye, and the "crazy healing" (nascent) does not happen till level 70+
I know later on it gets better, but at lvl 50 a job should not feel like it's just starting to get somewhere...in few more levels.

Let alone a simple job that doesn't do swiss knife approach to combat and doesn't keep you busy with slew of smaller,
situation based skills till the big ones arrive.

Guaranteed Critical Direct Hit is a poor mechanic for a variety of reasons, but, as I see it, it serves two main purposes for WAR, currently.

First and foremost, it makes using Inner Chaos during Inner Release highly sub-optimal (outside of extraordinary circumstances where you would lose casts otherwise). This stretches WAR's burst phase and allows for intermittent burst that can be lined up with raid buffs and/or Nascent Flash.

Removing this mechanic without some contrivance to maintain status quo will narrow the burst phase and burst opportunities of a job that is routinely criticized for a lack of engagement/excitement outside of its burst phase.

Secondly, it produces damage consistency. For DPS, this is nearly a moot point, as far as I'm concerned. For healing, however, it is tactically significant. Normal heals can critically hit, not critically direct hit; that's a huge degree of variance for only a few GCDs of high potency. Good players would inevitably acclimate to this by planning for a low roll, but that necessarily means WAR's self-healing will be weaker than it is now, all other things being equal. It's an acceptable loss perhaps, but a loss nonetheless.