I think this is ultimately a change in villain philosophy. So the Unsundered, specifically ironed out by Emet in 5.0, are trying to save the Ancient lives and the ancient world they once knew. The WOL and the Scions are fundamentally doing the same thing for the current time period. What really made Shadowbringers a work of art is how both sides can't reconcile they essentially want to do the same thing for two distinct groups of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erendis
So, Fandaniel is putting himself in a different philosophical camp. He doesn't care about saving the ancient world and the current world. Granted the details of his new philosophy are, from a story perspective, tipping the scales into a more dangerous situation then the WOL has faced. Ultimately, to pinpoint how Fandaniel's view is different, requires for him to have more screen time and be fleshed out better. And honestly, this is a good sign, because the Ascians spent the first two expansions shrouded in mystery and now that the current expansion shows the "jig is up" for the Unsundered, we need an anchor of a new mystery to drive the story.
Patch 5.4 Trailer, Predictions, and Hints
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12-01-2020, 07:41 PMKesey
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12-02-2020, 12:54 AMFrightfulNightHingashi is at the top of my list of places I want to go to most (even higher then Islabard though I am a weeb), Thravnaria being the birthplace of the Dancer class and a good deal of sexy glamour items, and Dalmasca with me being a big fan of XII are pretty high as well but right now they have not been getting the hints that Islabard has been getting (Bozja set up the Dalmasca storyline to continue even after the Garlean story is concluded with i guess Gabranth forming a sort of Byzantine or Eastern Roman parallel). When we do go to Hingashi I want a big focus to be put on it as well, not just it being relegated to one of many locations in an expack. Meracydia is at the moment a barren wasteland and is not even on the world map, I do see us going there someday but as a time travel or echo expansion to witness it during it's heyday and I do not see them doing that Right after ShB took us to another Shard, I feel it will be on the source in modern times wherever it will be set. And right now the area that has been getting the most attention and hype built around it in the story is Islabard, not just for this expansion but for most of SB as well, so for two expansions now, if it is delayed another expansion I honestly cannot defend that from a story telling expansion, it is Checkoves gun and it is well past act two now and nearing the finale, it is time to set it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesey
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12-02-2020, 07:31 AMCiliaPut in that context...Quote:
Originally Posted by Erendis
To me it sounds either like he doesn't care if he lives or dies, or unlike the Unsundered Ancients and us who want to protect life (in our own ways) he's out to cause as much death and destruction as possible for shiggles.
Certainly fits with the pseudo-Kefka characterization people are hypothesizing he's meant to emulate... -
12-03-2020, 05:14 AMNestamaI dunno about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sathona
The voice uses "We" instead of "I," which leads me to believe that either there's more than one malicious force around, OR it's the Cloud of Darkness (who is known to refer to herself as "we, us, our" and such in other games). The World of Darkness is most likely the actual World of Darkness, as I doubt Eden is that powerful to create a completely new world and there's always a chance the Cloud of Darkness was responsible for the Idol of Darkness. What if Cloud of Darkness merges with Gaia... or with Eden? or what if Eden is the final boss drawing out memories? She is the first Sin Eater and we have been letting her summon Primals based on our questionable memory. -
12-03-2020, 03:51 PMVeloran
Really, Fandaniel's statements are SO 1-1 to Zenos' own mindset that it really makes me question whether or not they're both actually shards of the same person.
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12-04-2020, 08:30 AMKeseyFandaniel talks about being loyal, faithful, and in want of a new master. Zenos never says things like that. Also don't forget that Fandaniel is wearing Asahi's body whose last name is "Brutus". These are betrayal flags from a manipulator. Zenos is more of a overpower you and take it type as a opposed to a plot and betray from the shadows type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veloran
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12-04-2020, 08:51 AMCiliaNot really as I see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veloran
They can't be shards of the same soul because then Zenos would (or should) be able to use the Echo without Resonance.
Further Zenos is not given to the histrionics Fandaniel has displayed thus far. -
12-04-2020, 10:28 AMVeloranJust as you say, he's flagged for a betrayer. And while their methods might differ, Zenos is the same in that regard, he has no true loyalty to anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesey
Beyond that, the fact that they're both obsessed with "living in the moment", having no regard for life, and even share many of the same sorts of lines about being "players on the stage" is very suspicious to me. I mean those are some extremely similar character traits.
Why would that mean he'd naturally have the Echo?Quote:
They can't be shards of the same soul because then Zenos would (or should) be able to use the Echo without Resonance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yuCib9jVvIQuote:
Further Zenos is not given to the histrionics Fandaniel has displayed thus far.
I know he's spent the better part of his screentime sulking in chairs, but I very much think he is when the mood strikes. -
12-04-2020, 01:17 PMCiliaAs an fragmented Ascian, Fandaniel would be an incomplete reincarnation of the original Fandaniel of the Convocation of Fourteen from the days of Amaurot just like the PC is to Azem. Elidibus' comments when awakening the denizens of the Crystarium to the Echo imply if not outright state it's derived from their soul memory, and of the Ancients the Convocation was the most powerful. If Zenos was a reincarnated Fandaniel (a la the PC and Azem) he'd probably definitely have enough of his Ancient incarnation's soul memory to naturally awaken to the Echo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veloran
Zenos also was alive before Emet-Selch (as Solus) died, and if by some extreme luck his great-grandson turned out to be a Convocation reincarnate I doubt he'd pass up the chance to make use of him.
(Then again Zenos does say he's always dreamed of the Final Days, so maybe...)
Zenos only really gets going when his battle lust completely overtakes his apathy. What little we've seen of Fandaniel thus far suggests he's like that pretty much all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veloran
That may change moving forward, but as it stands now I can't agree the two are different shard reincarnations of Convocation Fandaniel. -
12-04-2020, 04:40 PMVeloran
Emphasis on "probably" there, it's just not a guarantee. Not to mention that given the Garleans had no information on the Echo, it's very likely they are physically incapable of awakening it naturally. This would explain the dreams (As his recollection of Amaurot is the most vivid of anyone by far), and also why he never manifested the power.
As to his personality, of course he isn't ALWAYS hamming it up like a madman, but then again neither is Fandaniel, in his first appearances he wasn't nearly so over the top. The point here is that they both share these traits as well, even if they're not perfectly balanced.
Hell it's not like Ardbert was EXACTLY like WoL either, they're very alike in many regards, but also differ in others. Frankly I'd say Zenos and Fandaniel are even more similar.
Of course, it's also possible Fandaniel is simply making his entire personality up just to get Zenos to play along, not that he seems all that enthused about it.